Evidence of God's Design

[Quag]

Zombie movies are the best!

[Guest]

Whats the matter? don't want to play anymore? What time period and date was the new testament written?

[Guest]

Whats the matter? don't want to play anymore? What time period and date was the new testament written?

And while your at it, Who do you think wrote it?

[Guest]

Simple questions really. Not as if you have to think about the answer. Unless you don't know.

[Quag]

You said you had proof jesus raised from the dead. i showed you that even if you had "proof" it just means that he wasnt actually dead just presumed dead, or was medecine 2k years ago that much more advanced than what we got today so that they never made mistakes?

[Guest]

Simple questions really. Not as if you have to think about the answer. Unless you don't know.

[Guest]

I have come to the conclusion that you don't know. Seeing as you can't answer. You want to know HOW I know; answer the questions. SIMPLE.

[Guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament#Authorship

[Guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament#Authorship

That is when the canon of scripture was combined maybe yuiop, go to the beginning of your wiki post and tell me when the first books Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.....What year does your reference state?

[Guest]

Even with the internet at your side and wiki to help I can't get anyone to answer the question.

[Izzy]

Lol, I'll bite. Why does it matter when it was written? If I ask you when the Koran, Code of Bushido, or some Taoist scriptures were written, you're unlikely to know.

[Guest]

lol: Then answer.

[Guest]

Because I'm not sure that your aware, we're not talking about little gods we're talking about The One True God. I don't give a sh-- about those books, and know when they were written. Anybody want to look up when the Gospels were written?

[Quag]

I am not an expert on the bible in fact i will admit i havent read it all. sorry but way too silly for me in parts, i like the old testament better, war and such, much more thrilling a read. mind you the new testament is better than the book of mormon, which just tried to copy the style but sounded even sillier. So to your question basically as i understand it the bible was started to be written after jesus death. was done over a period of many many decades, it is a compilation of several works.

Now answer me. DO you admit that people have been declared dead and after, sometimes a prolonged period woken up, never having been dead at all just in a coma or some other near death like state?

BTW how was golf?

[Guest]

I am not an expert on the bible in fact i will admit i havent read it all. sorry but way too silly for me in parts, i like the old testament better, war and such, much more thrilling a read. mind you the new testament is better than the book of mormon, which just tried to copy the style but sounded even sillier. So to your question basically as i understand it the bible was started to be written after jesus death. was done over a period of many many decades, it is a compilation of several works.

Now answer me. DO you admit that people have been declared dead and after, sometimes a prolonged period woken up, never having been dead at all just in a coma or some other near death like state?

BTW how was golf?

Golf was good shot a 79 par is 72. I agree what you say could happen, that is not my point entirely, wiki has the answer. btw, Golf is always good, thanks for asking

[Guest]

Evolutionary scientist Arthur Keith admitted, evolution is unproved and unprovable. We only believe it because the only alternative is special creation which is unthinkable.--B.G.Ranganathan, ORIGINS? (Carlisle:The Banner of Truth Trust, 1988):22.

Some evolutionists are honest enough to admit that their support for evolution is actually a matter of religious faith as opposed to empirical science. professor G.A.Kerkut, of the University of Southampton (London), expressed his conclusion regarding the underlying attitudes of many scientists on the subject of Bio genesis (evolution): "It is therefore a matter of faith on the part of the biologist that bio genesis [evolution] did occur and he can choose whatever method of bio genesis happens to suit him personally;the evidence for what did happen is not available. G.A. Rerkut, IMPLICATIONS OF EVOLUTION (London: Pergamon press, 1960): 150.

In other words, forget about scientific evidence, just BELIEVE in evolution as a "matter of faith" because the evidence "is not available."

A strong supporter of the theory of evolution, Professor T.L. Moor, wrote, "The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone. B.G.Ranganathan, ORIGINS? (cARLISLE:The Banner of Truth Trust, 1988):22.

Another evolutionist, Dr. Solly Zuckerman, finally admitted the truth when he wrote, "The record of reckless speculation of human orgins) is so astonishing that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in this field at all. Philip Johnson, DARWIN ON TRIAL (Washington, D.C.:regnery Gateway, 1991):82.

Dr. Niles Eldredge has written, "We paleontologists have said that the history of life supports (the story of gradual adaptive change), all the while really knowing that it does not." Philip Johnson, DARWIN ON TRIAL (Washington, D.C.:regnery Gateway, 1991):59.

I BELIEVE THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF ATHEISTS: The ordinary atheist and the ornery kind. Ordinary atheist says, "I believe there is no God while I acknowledge that it is possible that you might have encountered evidence that convinces you that God exists." While the other says, "There is no God, and you can't possibly know that there is a God either."

Simple Question was: WHAT YEAR WERE THE GOSPELS WRITTEN?

Edited July 12, 2010 by hambone

[Guest]

Hi, I only read a few posts at the beginning and end of this thread, but I would like to say/ask a few things.

First of all, to hambone, for what purpose are you discussing your beliefs on this thread if it is true that you do not wish to change the minds of others or change your own mind on this subject?

I saw two reasons that you have for this thread: 1) You want to show (and show only) some of the reasons why you believe that the universe was created by divine creation and 2) You want to know whether the people reading your thread also believe that the universe was created by divine creation.

Because you don't seem to want any feedback one 1, I'll skip to 2. No, I do not believe that the universe is the result of a divine creation, a deity, etc.

I'll also say that I don't believe that the universe was NOT created by a divine deity either. Why? Because I try to be reasonable. I cannot know for certain whether or not there is a god, so I just say that it is unknown. I do not know whether or not the god that you believe in exists and I do not know whether or not Zeus exists. But, I do know that it would be irrational of me to believe that either one of those two deities exists without having good reason to do so. Now, you may be thinking, "Well I do have good reason to think that the god that I believe in exists," in which case I have no response. You don't want me to tell you what's flawed about the reasons that you have to show that your god exists and even if you did I know too well that your brain has built too strong of a defense. You don't appear to have learned anything from unreality's first post in reply to you and so judging by that I would advice anybody who reads this to stop discussing this thread with you, hambone. Why do I advise this? Because it appears that hambone is very determined to be unproductive. He doesn't want to learn anything and he doesn't want to argue with anybody else about their beliefs. So what does he intend to accomplish with this thread? I don't know. But, I'm not surprised that I cannot think of a good reason that he might have for having a thread like this due to the fact that he believes things without good reasons and does not wish to justify his beliefs when others critique them.

[unreality]

I hope you have a good life hambone playing golf and believing in The One True God. I know that none of our attempts to reason with you or get you to even think about other religions or lacks thereof have had any effect; any amount more will do nothing. Our philosophies are so different that there really is no common ground to discuss something of this matter.

Edited July 12, 2010 by unreality

[Quag]

Use the force, welcome to the wonderful world of agnosticism, the only logical conclusion about god that any rational person can ever come to.

Hambone, again your trying to confuse evolution with creation. you have already admitted evolution exists. stop trying to pretend it doesnt. Now if you want to say it doesnt explain the creation of life that is fine, but you continue to say scientists discount evolution, untrue they are saying it doesnt explain the creation of life.

I'm glad you admit people can been thought to have died then apparently ressurect from the dead. so i think its time for a small summary

Come on Quag, I am not proving or trying to prove evolution does not exist or happen, I am showing why life did not happen by chance. You are right most religions were created by man. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. Jesus is the Truth.

1. ok you seem to admit in this post that evolution exists whiel all others you claim it doesnt. no where in your posts do you explain why life cannot happen by chance best youve done is show that evolution cannot prove god did not create life, doesnt prove god did.

2. you admit most religions are created by man. If god exists why would he allow several false religions to spring up insread of just placing his son in several places at once and eliminate the confusion?

3. You have just admitted that the resurrection if it did happen (again you refuse to provide proof) could be explained by something other than divine intervention.

my count agnostics: 3 religious guys: 0

will continue to happen, whenever logic and religion smash heads religion looses. All religions not only say god/gods exists but also say we know what he was thinking and how you should behave to please him. A ridiculous assertion just in itself.

[Guest]

2. you admit most religions are created by man. If god exists why would he allow several false religions to spring up insread of just placing his son in several places at once and eliminate the confusion?

The reason that there are many religions and God allowed it to happen is because He gave people free will to choose. I think you may have heard the story of Adam and Eve. They were told they could eat from ANY tree in the Garden of Eden except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Satan in the form of a serpent tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit and Eve then gave it to Adam to do the same. They did so under the influence of Satan AND because God gave them free will. If He did not intend for us to have free will and choice, He could have easily never put the tree in the garden in the first place. That is why different religions exist...Because He allowed people to have free will. He is God and He is good...Not controlling.

Edit: Grammar

Edited July 12, 2010 by Prince_Marth85

[Guest]

Big guns good. The reason this thread was started was because of the "What happens after death" thread. I made a comment of how I believe and was ripped for it (not directly) but still the idiot I am for believing in God. Let me say this, although you won't read any of it, 'Life' evolves, grows, changes, a rock does not. To have evolution or the process for which things can change and adapt LIFE NEEDS TO BE IN THE PICTURE. How did it start? Evolution and the THEORY of it can't explain it, period. Now I looked at a lot of evidence and have studied a lot, DO I DNOW EVERYTHING? No, and don't claim to.

So with this--The gospels were written in 50a.d. up to 70 75a.d. Please this is why I say I know that Jesus is.

Just read it okay I don't want to have bad blood with anyone, to me this is fascinating. Jesus died in about 33a.d. on a cross, (form of Roman capital punishment) written in letters or (books) that were widely read and proclaimed in 50a.d. state that He died was put in a tomb and covered with spices. Traditional at that time, covered his body with a big pile of them. Closed the tomb and sealed it (with a roman seal) with wax at the points where the stone met the tomb. Then it says the Soldiers or Roman guard watched it. His Death was scourging, Crucifixion, and a Roman soldiers spear in his side. They made sure he was dead. All this written and widely communicated in 50a.d. To have a roman soldier at that time break that seal or leave that post would have been death, it was a military post. Options- Roman soldiers conspired to take His body and bury it or hide it somewhere-But when the new Christians were proclaiming He had risen-Easy to produce a dead guy and stop the uprising. Don't you think. Option- The Jewish rulers who had him handed over to be crucified took his body, no that don't work either. So the silly Christians must have taken and hid or buried his body somewhere in the wilderness (after they fought off the Roman Military Post and started this new religion. Then THEY ALL GAVE THEIR LIVES, some in horrific ways. I might Live for something I know is a LIE, don't think I would DIE for it though. When the tomb was found open it was written and proclaimed that just the cloths were there. The spices were not disturbed, just kind of sunk down where His body once lay. After all this it says He showed himself alive to Hundreds of people in Jerusalem.

Written in as early as 50a.d. other books and writings up to 75a.d. That's only 20 years after this had all taken place. 20 years. It would be like me writing and proclaiming a new highly controversial religion that says Princess Diana not only died in that car accident but 3 days later came back to life, showed herself alive to hundreds of people, oh and while she was alive before she died and then was alive again, she healed the sick, caused the blind to see and raised other people from the dead.

You see my point, Don't have to agree with it. I could not write something like that, ONLY 20 years later. People are still alive to know what happened. Just as it was back then. Accept the people that saw what He did and what happened knew it did. So you have a man that taught for 3 years in a romote part of the world proclaimed to this day as the Son of God. Is it okay with you if I believe that this is TRUE? not that I'm asking.

[Quag]

The reason that there are many religions and God allowed it to happen is because He gave people free will to choose. I think you may have heard the story of Adam and Eve. They were told they could eat from ANY tree in the Garden of Eden except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Satan in the form of a serpent tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit and Eve then gave it to Adam to do the same. They did so under the influence of Satan AND because God gave them free will. If He did not intend for us to have free will and choice, He could have easily never put the tree in the garden in the first place. That is why different religions exist...Because He allowed people to have free will. He is God and He is good...Not controlling.

first part sorry doesnt wash. jesus small out of the way place where most people could never in their lifetiomes or many many generations lives ever hear of him, in fact untill the 1800's the majority of the population of earth had absolutely no way of ever even hearing of jesus. hmm 1800 years of near total neglect?? sorry your god ideas fail. lets go the other way, all the people who died before jesus. what about them? nope god dont give a rats a** about them either? doh religious belief dies a painful death to logic again

adam and eve i love this, by naming them i suppose you believe earth if 6k years old unlike hambone who admitted it wasnt. ok god created adam and eve then had only 2 sons and somehow this populated the earth?? little incest maybe eve slept with her sons then? also how come people look so different? could evolution have made so many changes in 6k years or did god just change the children of incestous eve?

Hamboen nothigng you have said proves jesus died and was reborn. It only proves people thought he was dead. again doesnt even prove he was reborn or woke up from a coma. i will grant you he was crucified and entombed. but not resurected or woken up. sorry my statement is still more likely than yours by a mmagnitude that makes winning the lottery every week of your life seem more probable.

the bit about life and a rock i'm sorry to once again crush your little pat saying but rocks do evolve and change. requires outside stimulus to do so but then so does life.

[andromeda]

He showed himself alive to Hundreds of people...

So did Elvis

Written in as early as 50a.d. other books and writings up to 75a.d.

Actually Wiki says up to 150 a.d. (mid second century, so the fable was passed on, same as many other legends and myths were).

That's only 20 years after this had all taken place. 20 years.

Well, somebody thought the same thing Paris Hilton said a while ago and I quote: "It will work. I'm a marketing genius."

Bible and Christianity are nothing but the biggest marketing scam of all times!!

I gotta hand it to them, they did quite a job, we are still suffering from the ripple effect, but I'd still rather believe in Wizard of Oz!

Princess Diana not only died in that car accident but 3 days later came back to life, showed herself alive to hundreds of people, oh and while she was alive before she died and then was alive again, she healed the sick, caused the blind to see and raised other people from the dead.

Dude... this is not cool. You are talking about a real person here. She was a humanitarian and helped a lot of people. While G.W.Bush wipes his hand on Bill's shirt, she always shook hands with everyone without hesitation or disgust.

I could not write something like that, ONLY 20 years later. People are still alive to know what happened.

You do know that back then there was no internet, nor TV, nor radio, nor paparazzi, nor anyone who'd listen to than kind of gibberish?!

Those things written weren't available to people for centuries, they could have written WHAT EVER THEY WANTED! Think of people's lifespan? They weren't around long enough to worry about Jesus really, they were busy staying alive.

Your conclusions are totally out of context!

EDIT: minor typo's

Edited July 12, 2010 by andromeda

[EDM]

ok, now i'm slightly annoyed.....

Quag...

If you haven't read the bible well enough, let me tell you that adam and eve are the first man and woman to have been created IN PARADISE!!! God made more people after the original sin sent them here to earth.......hence the evolution.......

For us, studying about jesus is studying history......we learn as per history; if you check out the historical books, you'll find jesus and christianity there.......

Question: do you believe in the existence of the Devil?

No one answered this earlier.......

And no; God did not make the Devil; he made angels, and one ridiculous dude decided he wanted to be god and spread evil........

[Quag]

For us, studying about jesus is studying history......we learn as per history; if you check out the historical books, you'll find jesus and christianity there.......

Well there is your problem you think historical fiction is fact. sorry dude jesus was a man not a god. you still havent answere dabout the poor slobs who for millenia had no chance of elarnign fo jesus grace to save them.

as to not having read the bible i have read parts of it it is too ridiculous to believe. also im sure you will agree genesis (the part this thread si supposed to deal with) is from the old testament whiel the jesus stuff is all from the new testament. hamboen dont need to read any opther religous texts cause his one true god (same as jew ands muslim god buddy) only needs the new testament (even though hes actually arguing old testament sillyness)

one more time hambone has not proven jesus awoke from the dead. despite his belief he has. so no proof jesus is god.

if god created so many other people why are they unnamed? also please tell me where it says they were created, in my admittedly limited bible study i recall only that other peopel were just added in and no where does iot says god created them they were more like sitcom characters that just show up with no explanation and peopel dont ask who tehy are they just go with it. if you do quote where it says god created other people i will take that back but again a work of fiction is still a work of fiction. YOU HAVE NO PROOF IT IS REAL AND NEVER EVER WILL. ye si know i have no proof it isnt but simple logic forces the conclusion that it is all hogwash