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Evidence of God's Design

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I have done some research into the evidence of Divine creation.

This thread in my opinion as far as I am concerned is not debatable.

By that I mean my mind is made up and you cannot change how I believe.

Debate all you want, although I believe, if instead of just ripping

apart the points listed below you might look into some of them first).

I would also like to know if you do or do not believe in Divine creation.

This is not intended to be an argument or debate or for that matter a

way to change any one's way of thinking or believing. Simply to show some

of the reasons why I believe the way that I do.

#1. THE BRAIN.

The late biochemist and atheist said "In man is a three-pound brain which,

as far as we know, is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter

in the Universe."

The human brain consists of about ten thousand million nerve cells. Each

nerve cell puts out between ten thousand and one hundred thousand connecting

fibers by which it makes contact with other nerve cells in the brain. Altogether

the number of connections in the human brain approaches 10 to the 15 power

or a thousand million million. Numbers in the order of 10 to the 15 power are

of course beyond comprehension.

#2. THE EYE.

3000 years ago the wisest man on earth King Solomon, wrote, "The hearing ear,

and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them." Proverbs 20:12

When a baby is conceived in its mother's womb, the genetic DNA code governing

The eye programs the baby's body to begin growing optic nerves simultaneously

from both the optic center of the brain and from the eye. A million microscopic

optic nerves begin growing from the eye through the flesh toward the optical

section of the baby's brain. Simultaneously, a million optic nerves, with a

protective sheath similar to a fiver-optic cable, begin growing throughout the flesh

towards the baby's eye. Each of these one-million optic nerves must find and match

up to its precise mate to enable vision to function perfectly.

And we're impressed when man can build a highway through a mountain and meet in

the middle somewhere.

#3. THE LIVER.

1000's of years ago Moses wrote "For the life of the flesh is in the blood"

Leviticus 17:11. How did Moses know this over 3000 years ago when doctors

did not know until the discovery, by the English doctor, Dr. William Harvey in

1616, of the role of the circulation of blood in the function of life.

Our bodies are exposed to enormous amounts of chemical poisons and harmful

waste substances that are naturally produced by our organs and cells in the

normal course of life. Not to mention what we eat and drink. The job of the

Liver is to identify the chemical composition of an unknown material, analyze

what chemical reactions and enzymes are needed to neutralize or make nutritious

the material needed by your body's trillions of cells, produce these essential

chemicals, and perform these complex functions-all is less than twelve seconds.

If it couldn't do this, you would die. Then sends the safe material into your

blood stream. Your liver can perform over 500 separate chemical reactions at

the same time. Actually the liver does so much it would take pages to explain.

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Posted · Report post

hmm......i like it..... :thumbsup:

you already know my answer: yes, there is a divine power.......but i don't wanna emphasise on it because it makes me sound like an extremist, which i'm not.....

(i don't like arguing with Izzy and unreality; i feel bad about it afterwards - it's in my nature.....

:) )
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Posted · Report post

I know exactly what you mean. Most of what we were talking about in the other thread started by Izzy asking for evidence of a Divine God. It was asked that we direct our comments to a more appropriate thread. Don't need to argue with anyone I just want to answer Izzy's question in an appropriate thread. :thumbsup:

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I don't have a problem with Izzy......I just have a problem with her insults about God and religion.......:(

It sounds like she has an attitude thing.........unreality didn't do that......

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I don't have a problem with Izzy......I just have a problem with her insults about God and religion.......:(

It sounds like she has an attitude thing.........unreality didn't do that......

Me either EDM. Just hope some of the points I'm looking at are read and thought about.

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The biochemists name in #1 is Dr. Isaac Asimov.

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sometimes I think about stuff like this and it's all so fantastic, so improbable (or is it?), so cleverly designed (or so it seems) that I'm with you. I really am. But, there are two problems:

(1) problem of recursion - surely if all these interlocking creatures and body parts were designed instead of co-evolved, it would take an _incredible_ mind to do the designing. Would you agree? A mind more complex (or as it is claimed, INFINITELY more complex) than the human brain, than the liver, than a honeycomb. If this designing mind is so much more complex than ours; and ours require designing BECAUSE they are so complex, than wouldn't this overmind (GOD) requiring an even greater designer?

a typical response here is "God is infinitely more complex than the complex human mind, yes; but the human mind needs designing whereas God just is", but do you realize how empty that is. "God just is"

For the sake of the argument why don't we extend it to the whole universe and everything in it. The universe, the galaxy, the solar system, Earth, plants, humans, animals, the complexity of Life. You say that its complexity requires being designed. But you also say that God is infinitely more complex. Then when asked "Okay so WHO designed GOD?" you reply "God does not need designing, he just IS" ... then why not cut out the middleman and just accept that The Universe can "just BE"?

In terms of complexity:

God > Universe

your argument: Universe is too complex to just be, God must have designed it

counterargument: then if God is more complex, where did He come from?

your argument: he just is.

PARADOX! Don't you see the paradox?

The only possible way to avoid is to say that God is LESS complex than the universe in terms of having-to-be-designed. In fact you would have to say that God was LESS complex than the human mind. It just doesn't compute.

The only other resolution is to say that there were an infinite chain of gods. But isn't it just simpler to concede then that the Universe just exists? Why can't you let it be?

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As for (2), I'm not equipped to explain evolution. There are others who are:

- dawh

- octopuppy

- ADParker

I can't do it justice

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Now this is intelligent conversation. It take faith for you to believe that the universe just is just the same kind of faith it takes me to believe that God always was. I have so many more points to bring into this they take time to compact and shorted as to not drive people nuts. They are bad enough as it is. The atom, the cell, the galaxies, the atmosphere etc. Izzy had said to me that I believe the way I do because I'm weak and it's just easier. I would disagree, 1) I have been studying this as long as Izzy has been alive-even longer actually. This I don't think is easier at all. To have faith and believe in what you cannot see.

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I didn't read any of what you wrote. Just. Stop. Talking. For the sake of humanity, S.T.F.U. Read a lampin' book. God: The Failed Hypothesis will do fine.

/leaves thread

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-_-

I didn't read any of what you wrote. Just. Stop. Talking. For the sake of humanity, S.T.F.U. Read a lampin' book. God: The Failed Hypothesis will do fine.

/leaves thread

No problem Izzy, Just remember you asked why I believe. Your weak minded and easily swayed. Your thoughts are someone else's teachings. Useless. Didn't think you would read. Have volumes of evidence for you not to read. Next time don't ask. -_-

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Actually. I changed my mind. Prepare for intellectual pwnage. You claim to have been "learning" for longer than I have been alive. This was clearly demonstrated by your knowledge of other religions in the other thread.. :rolleyes: If in the year or so I've been interested in this sort of thing surmounts/passes what you've been able to discover in your entire life, that.. definitely says something about you, my friend. I don't care if you've made up the mind. I'm here to stop you from spewing BS all over the internet and confusing easily pliable minds with it.

You clearly have nil knowledge of evolution. I'm gonna say what unreality said and defer you to either dawh, ADParker, or octopuppy here. Unfortunately my high school level biology is sort of lacking. :(

I don't know anyting about the brain or liver, but I do know a thing or two about the eye. Thank you, Mr. Victor Stenger. I learned the following from one of his books, and have paraphrased, taking information from the book, which I have in front of me.

You say the eye is perfect and wired exceptionally, and "Gmoz, it's so good God must have done it." Welll. You're wrong (not surprsing). The eye is actually wired backwards, in all veretebrates. Other animals have their eyes wired much more rationally. Intelligent design? Methinks not. Yeah, it works fine for us, but it's.. not designed at all. "Eyes provide such obvious survival value that they developed at least FORTY times independently in the course of evolution. Neuroscience has identified eight different optical solutions for collecting and focusing light, although all share similarities at the molecular level. The physics and the chemistry are the same; few ways exist for detecting photons. But, because of the important role of chance and local environment in the evolution of complex systems, different solutions to the problem were uncovered by random sampling of the varied paths allowed by evolution. In short, the structres of eyes look as they might be expected to lok if they developed from purely material and mindless process - chance + natural selection - as these processes explore the sace of possibe survival solutions."

Also, if our eyes are so perfectly "designed", why do people go blind? Why do people need glasses? Just God failing, or.. imperfect evolution. The answer is clear. Same thing with death people and the need for hearing aids. :rolleyes:

(Sorry for any typos, this computer doesn't have spell check. I didn't feel like typing this up on my MacBook, and I was looking at the book rather than the screen whilst typing.)

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Posted (edited) · Report post

This is not intended to be an argument or debate or for that matter a

way to change any one's way of thinking or believing. Simply to show some

of the reasons why I believe the way that I do.

What part of that do you struggle with?

Edited by hambone
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Posted · Report post

-_-

No problem Izzy, Just remember you asked why I believe. Your weak minded and easily swayed. Your thoughts are someone else's teachings. Useless. Didn't think you would read. Have volumes of evidence for you not to read. Next time don't ask. -_-

I didn't feel the need. You're clearly another over zealous Judeo-Abramic Christian with little to no knowledge of other religions. I have no motive for persauding you to think differently. You're of the older generation (no offense), and will have little impact on the future (again, no offense). ..And truthfully, you think 2012 is going to happen, so it's hard to take anything you say seriously. I asked because you claimed to possess knowledge of world religions after intense study in the other thread, and it became pathetically apparent that you don't. I am weak minded and easily swayed? Lmao. Yeah. That's why I totally fell for the whole childhood indoctrination thing and believe the same bull as the rest of Christianity. No dude. When you were little, someone told you God existed. They also told you Santa existed. You eliminated one, I eliminated both. Can we say easily swayed?

My thoughts are no one's teaching. I used to information around me to make an informed decision. You blindly believe. <resists making insult>

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This is not intended to be an argument or debate or for that matter a

way to change any one's way of thinking or believing. Simply to show some

of the reasons why I believe the way that I do.

And I am telling you why you are wrong, not for you, for the readers on this board so they have an opinion on both sides. My posts aren't for you. They are for the agnostics on the issue. You seem as self-centred as God. :lol:

This is the internet Don't spew crap and expect it to be left alone and intact, believed and accepted by all with no rebuttle.

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No I don't believe 2012 will happen at all. That is a belief of New agers.

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Izzy you just believe differently, but it takes faith to believe the way you do. Faith in the fact of chance of evolution or some other way we all ended up here.

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as far as your earlier posts they were directed to me specifically, read them. When someone wants to identify a counterfeit bill they don't study counterfeit money they study the real money so they can see the counterfeit when it shows up.

spelling

Edited by hambone
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Dude, are you kidding me? There are overwhelming amounts of evidence for evolution. Please, go take a biology class. This takes no faith. We have fossil record. We have radio dating. We. have. so. much. evidence.

Lol, sorry, I can't do this. Human stupidity and willful ignorance frustrates me too much.

Hi Rookie. I know you know I mean that in the nicest way and is a general statement not directed to anyone on this board. :)

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Posted · Report post

What would you like to know about biology?

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Why are you so angry about this subject. What happened to make you hate the idea of God?

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My priest touched my in inappropriate ways. ;)

Lmao, no seriously, I'm not angry at something that doesn't exist. It's like you telling my mah homie invisible friend DAWG doesn't exist, and I'm all "Foo, whatcho' problem? Don' hate brah, he's my home dawg shizzle bizzcuitttt. We tight." (I'm totally gansta, btw.)

Alright, let's do this. Let's test your biology knowledge. Explain evolution to me. I wanna see what you know, foo'. So I can show it to mah homies, like unreality, and we can be like "dat's legit bro!" or we can be like "Nah dawg, 'dis cracka' trippin'"

(*lmao*)

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Don't believe in evolution Izzy, or did that part pass by you without noticing? :huh:

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Lets start with the cell this could take awhile to type okay B))

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Don't believe in evolution Izzy, or did that part pass by you without noticing? :huh:

Evolution is tied in - almost entirely integrated - in modern biology

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