araver

Nice :clap:

Lead Animator checking in. A little confused, but as long as characters behave, there should be no problems. Animation phase is a GO.

@Klue and Aura - I understand the passion behind your posts, especially now that the game is over ... and I don't want to take sides, cause I saw you both as goodies *shrug* But just for the record, Klue, EDM had an almost perfect defense after N1, so you were mostly a confirmed Goodie - a vanilla one. What (I believe) Aura expected from you in D3/N4 was to go along with coordinating actions towards people who had not claimed first ... since you had no other private info from night actions to rely on. When you did not, and tried to cast suspicions on those that had claimed/defended in D2, you automatically reminded everyone (myself included) that there is a minor possibility that you could be Malfoy. You basically put yourself into the spotlights again, just when almost everyone (including the Baddies I presume), were thinking Harry RIDed you in N2 and cleared your name (per proposed N2 goodie actions in the thread). Oh, and btw, finding a nemesis and metagaming about it in later Mafias does happen, and sometimes is fun. Other times, it is speculated by the other faction. You should hear Phaze and Izzy going at it in some games *rolleyes*

Only one that would sway the RID Kill from you (you kinda basically said you are fine with the RID kill targeting you *shrug*). You are correct, there was little you could do at that point, except counterclaim a Stone (such as Chaits). I don't believe you had any chance to win at that point. Sorry if my words seemed to imply otherwise. Hmm, I understand how it looked from your PoV. But, as I explained during N2 (and I was truthful in that), you could have explicitly told if you spied either Nox or Aura (and you did not). And you could have voted in self-defense. That meant that nothing was for certain, but if you accept the bad defense theory this makes blind-voting more likely. I intentionally used your votes to get Nox and Aura under suspicion / talking during the next night, to provide a target for Harry to try: - Nox couldn't lift the suspicion off him (hence he was the target of the RID Kill after your lynch) - Aura defended (a bit, apparently just enough to not be targeted by Harry that night) and was later forced to claim during the next day to alleviate all suspicion off her. So your two random votes were transformed, through pressure, into a baddie getting targeted and a goodie outing. And also, out of the votes on you (3rd and 4th dropped), at least one of Slick and Chaits was a baddie who was bandwagoning shamelessly. After Chaits was forced to claim in D2, this left the Slick option, which was taken care of in N3. So, your lynch was indeed a turning point ... it put the goodies at an apparent disadvantage, and we were kinda forced to get the pressure going faster (force people to out, coordinating night actions in public, etc). At least this is how I felt it. There is actually a syndrome in Mafia, not very clear in this one particular game, more visible in other games - the faction which takes hits early on gets more determined / doubles their efforts to come back. This means taking more risks, which in turn, if unlucky, can come back and bite you. I do see your point about the first RID Kill being lucky i.e. Nox was Basilisk, the very first thing Harry tried. It was 25%. But, the minute Nox did not defend properly (both to suspicions based on your vote and a possible spy + the fact he voted for EDM which had an almost perfect defense after N1), Nox became a target of goodie actions. If you take the RID kill away, he would have been blocked and revealed to be Basilisk anyway after N2. So, I'm saying he should have been better protected by himself and his teammates. Someone should have taken the fall to protect the Basilisk ... this was their Achilles' heel. I did consider Day 2 a lucky lynch since Q and Segul (and to a much lesser degree EDM) were inactive/unable to defend. It could have been a bad lynch, but guess what ... it wasn't. They were both inactive AND Baddies. This does not happen very often. And indeed all these bits added to the goodies winning by a 7 players alive margin. But again, luck was not the major factor in the victory itself ("mostly out of luck"), just the major factor in the fast/big margin. Another thing I failed to mention. Inactivity does kill, but ... I usually shout for the host to replace my inactive teammates, even if I am a ghost or a goodie who may by accident shout to replace a baddie. More obvious if I am a baddie in need of teammates voting with me *shrug*. It makes me unpopular for some hosts, if I keep bugging them everytime someone does not appear for a day or night phase ... but it helps with winning more times than not. Depends how much one wants that win to happen *shrug* I was forced to play an entire game as the single active baddie (with 2 inactives after N1/D1) and I managed to win only because the WinCon was to take out and outlive 3 important goodies (which we achieved in D2, without 2 Baddies voting). If it had been a majority WinCon, then, yeah, a Win would have been far less possible for baddies without some luck (winning some coinflips at least). And if that is the case, to survive, Baddies usually build cases and take down other baddies, sacrifice the inactives/weaker players (ability-wise) to get credit and continue to survive undisturbed.

Hmm, not sure about that. In fact, I guess there is no way I can agree with what you said: luck being the main factor behind the Goodie win. Yes, the win is crushing (7 living Goodies out of 9) because of the baddies inactivity. Inactivity is a shame, but it was not the only cause of the baddies' downfall: - the Baddies inability to defend, raise suspicions somewhere else: Nox after D1/during N2, Slick in D3, current in D4/N4 - the lack of any Baddie strategy even in BTSC /powerplaying night actions in N1-N3. For e.g. why did Slick take the NK in N3, when it was obvious he was gonna be blocked? Both made the goodies' job of finding and taking them out much too easy. Sorry, but not only inactivity, but lack of any good moves from Baddies made them lose this game. And without covering/defending in the game thread, no baddie team is ever going to win (as long as NK can be blocked) Also, I would not count either of the RID Kills as lucky. Neither RID kill was on N1. Neither was born of luck. Both were follow-ups of suspicions in the game thread. Both were gambles with a high profitability rate if successful and a lot of insights gained even if not successful.

Well, we can fill in the roster ourselves 1. PEACE - Ron (n1:EDM, n2: nox, n3:slick, n4: chaits) 2. nox - Basilisk 3. Aaryan - Hermione 4. Anon26 - 5. yoDell - 6. Thalia - Harry (N1-Q as Basilisk, N2- Nox as Basilisk, N3-was Slick as Ginny but talked into EDM as Malfoy, N4- Curr3nt as Malfoy) 7. Chaits - 8. Q-Cumber - Riddle 9. Slick - Ginny 10. Araver - Stone 4 (N1 - waited patiently for the night-kill, N2 - was sure to be killed, unsure if Harry will get nox, N3 - was sure will get killed, N4 - no worries) 11. EDM/KM - 12. Auramyna - 13. Segul/Curr3nt - Malfoy @Thalia, yeah, I stopped after Peace and Aura claimed ... I was kinda sure that {Harry, Colin} = {Thalia, YoDell}, order not important for goodies. Though it would have been fun for some baddie to claim Harry at some point *sigh*

Yay, we won. Just out of curiosity, can we get the roles and night-actions later on? I wanna see if I was attempted NKed at least

My bad then. Though that is a little weird, it is possible. And if the host already ruled on that in a previous Mafia, then yes, that is the most likely answer. But IMHO, that is an extra ability e.g. cannot be tied. Semantics. The unlynchable part just covers surviving a lynch. Not a tie. Correct, that was a red herring (hence the absurd tag, twice). It was supposed to tell me if anyone is actually considering the plan and trying to catch/patch any flaws or just skim-read or keep flaws to themselves

Based on previous Mafias, no. Dumbledore is not removed from the tie. Just can't be lynched = in case he is selected to lynch (either by plurality or selected randomly from the tie), he is revealed and does not die.

@KM, Akriti and Anon - Great, the A-Team it is @Mo(lly) and Mo(rice) =P See you in the field, where plans come together ... at least for some

We'll try for that, since this won't start till June 16th the earliest. However, I'm trying not to repeat the TMM III experience, where there was a full month between the moment the first signed up and the moment the signups were filled. This leads to even more inactivity, and a round of confirmations adds more delays. *shrug*

Hmm, I went back and re-read and I might have been too eager to validate Chaits claim (because 2 and too are similar in fast-typed English ). Since almost everyone has chimed in for the plan, I think it's OK to re-add it with the options that follow the night: Right now 7 vs 1: Group 1: Strong claims/Potential Goodies with an action: Aura, Peace, Thalia, YoDell Group 2: Weak claims/ Likely Baddie among Stones: KlueMaster, Araver, Chaits, Curr3nt Proposed actions on Group 2 people (coloring with green since this looks like a goodie BTSC now ) Harry - RID Kill Curr3nt as Malfoy Ron - Block Chaits End of night: Scenario 1: Curr3nt dies - goodies win Scenario 2: Harry acts, curr3nt does not die. Chaits is blocked. The NK is blocked Scenario 3: Harry acts, curr3nt does not die, Chaits is blocked. The NK goes through. (Absurd) scenario 4: Chaits is Harry and will get blocked (since he claimed Stone, this is an absurd scenario). I will not discuss scenario 1 and 4 since these are straightforward. Scenario 2: Curr3nt is cleared. Chaits is prime suspect. NK is blocked so Harry, Ron, Colin are still alive. I don't see the point of the tie with Aura?? First off, see random tie means one of the two is selected. If Aura is selected she will survive the lynch. If Chaits is selected, he will be lynched. Why not try to lynch Chaits directly?? If he is goodie, then baddies framed him, but having Harry, Ron and Colin alive, next night can go according to a similar plan, taking 2 other suspects from the list. Scenario 3: Curr3nt is cleared, Chaits is cleared. NK may take target one of Harry, Ron or Colin or one of the other suspects. Making the next night harder to plan. In which case, I propose lynching one of suspects on the list or better yet, verifying Aura's claim (the no-lynch option which preserves numbers). Now, if all the above is clear, let's add Colin to the mission. In the case of Scenario 3, none of the people targeted by Harry and Ron are the baddie ... so, it makes sense to add Colin to follow a third suspect. If Colin does not get killed, Colin can confirm if the baddie acted ... Q: If Malfoy manages to kill and Colin follows Malfoy and survives (i.e. not the NK target), does Colin receive the NK target as the target of Malfoy's "action"?. So, if the answer to the above is Yes, then Colin - Follow Araver or KlueMaster or Aura or Thalia or YoDell. Your pick. If you survive, then you can come back and report/clear an extra someone if Scenario 3 happens and the NK goes through. If you don't survive, nothing is cleared, no info is lost. And KlueMaster is not cleared from your PoV, only from Harry's. And one final note: I don't see the tie argument. If I'm not around tomorrow, please, in all sanity bandwagon on one suspect if there is one (Scenario 2) or take the no-lynch option, also verify Aura's claim (Scenario 3). EDIT: Colors adapted for goodie BTSC feel

Yes, the question is who can Ron block safely, without the risk of blocking Harry? From my PoV, only KlueMaster/EDM or me or Chaits.

Signups for Trainer's Manual Mafia IV: Hosts: Araver & Aaryan Newbies: 1. Hidden G - after the 14th of june 2. flamebirde - ready to go on the 16th 3. JaneDoe23 4. good22 5. The Cube 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Backups (people that have played before) 1. KlueMaster 2. Anon26 3. Auramyna 4. .. Adding the co-host, having 3 backups ready means at least 7 newbies must sign up before we start.

Meant to say, best bet for Malfoy AND most probably not Harry (since Segul was mostly inactive while Harry was ... inspired in his killing). So, guess curr3nt can be safely blocked. Unless he has a good motive. I'm all ears.

There is a stone which is not. This might be the key. Also, knowing stones are numbered was borderline PMRepping. Which is why I'm inclined to believe Chaits. Yeah, that is the thing ... I don't have targets. No one individual can give absolute targets. Any RID Kill can be tried *shrug* Some blocks should not be tried. I do trust Chaits because of his number. A baddie would not necessarily know numbers exist. But this is almost PMRepping. I understand your hint at a number. Can't prove or disprove it *shrug* It would be good to have a dual-perfect-secret-game, but I see no such game ... Ron is 99.99% known. Harry hides among the suspects. Guess we could tell Ron to stop someone who does not claim Harry but claims something else and is still suspicious. Such as me. *shrug* But there are too many holes on that road, hmmm. If we're down to personal preferences, my best bet for Malfoy is curr3nt (formerly Segul). But this is just another semi-gut feeling like nox and Slick were.

Team 2 name voting (only team 2 players voting, pls): 1. (Name Team2: Jalebi by Anon26) - [PRO 1] Anon26 [CON 0] 2. (Name Team2: A-Team by Araver) - [PRO 2] Araver, KlueMaster [CON 0] 3. (Name Team2: the blue pantalones by Nox) [PRO 0] [CON 1]Araver 4. (Name Team2: Illuminati by Akriti) - [PRO 1] Akriti [CON 0] 5. (Name Team2: Team 2nd Place by maurice0 - [PRO 0] [CON 1]Araver Adding votes...

@Thalia - here's the problem: There can be only 4 stones. 1, 2, 3, 4 no more, no less. - If one is dead (technically Anon is either a Stone or Dumbledore), then the baddie is waiting for someone to claim 1 or 3. - If the baddie wants to gamble ... he/she can try to claim first. One of 1 or 3 (nothing to lose at this point). Voting patterns with two inactives (EDM and Segul) don't tell much. Had Chaits not claimed a stone first ... he would be more suspicious voting wise. Colin's private previous info is useless as Basilisk carried the kill N1, N2, and Ginny in N3. Harry's private info from N3 is somewhat clear. I don't know if Harry tried something night 1, but most probably not a RID X as Malfoy action *shrug* Ron has no private info. As long as Ron and Harry can work together ... there is no need to talk.

We have a block + RID Kill. The follow spy is actually more of third backup, just in case. And KlueMaster replaced EDM, Harry was supposed to RID EDM as Malfoy last night. If that happened, then KM is cleared. If that did not happen, then, yeah, it is the most logical thing to try. Not because EDM did anything, because KM did not do anything to clear his name as Malfoy.

No, I got nothing concrete, just a thought. But the lynch does mean that can come up with a (public) plan. My thoughts on the endgame at this moment involve playing everything on one card (publicly): - RID Kill X as Malfoy is a kill now. Since RID Kill >> NK, it is blocking. - Block >> NK These are two actions - no need to act on the same player to win. 2 suspects - 2 actions. Either the RID Kill goes through (game over) or the block stops the NK (we lynch the blocked the next day, game over) or baddies don't NK to frame the publicly blocked person (in which case Harry is still alive for another try). Question is, given info people have secretly, can we narrow it down to 2 suspects and be sure Harry is not one of them? Only scenario in which Goodies are screwed up is when Ron blocks Harry ... and the NK kills Harry. As long as Harry is still alive and we don't have a clear target for the lynch, we can lynch Dumbledore indefinitely (equivalent of a no-lynch actually). Otherwise, the game is prolonged, and paranoia may lead us to lynching wrong persons in a row. Soooo ... ball is in Harry and Ron's court now. Mostly Harry's. 'Cause Ron can surely understand not to block someone who outs as Harry, give the benefit of the doubt, as we did with Ron. And no, wifom aside, I'm not Harry. I am number 4 as I have hinted at in a lot of posts (where I used one, two, three, 4, five, etc).

If you'd like, yes. First, check the announcement in game ideas on MM and then let me know here on BD in a convo. Thanks.

Again, if Slick flips Baddie (either Ginny or Malfoy), then we can talk more since it would make most sense to end it tonight.

Team 2 name voting (only team 2 players voting, pls): 1. (Name Team2: Jalebi by Anon26) - [PRO 1] Anon26 [CON 0] 2. (Name Team2: A-Team by Araver) - [PRO 1] Araver [CON 0] 3. (Name Team2: the blue pantalones by Nox) [PRO 0] [CON 1]Araver 4. (Name Team2: Illuminati by Akriti) - [PRO 1] Akriti [CON 0] @Aki - What MM said, new sequences only. Removing vote from that one. @MM - No Veto allowed. You're a ghost for this one. Unless you want to challenge your own team's name. And thanks, I forgot to number the sequences

(for lack of a better smiley to express) Not really. And we still have the numbers to do that several nights in a row. But there also can be a quick combo to win this tonight and not prolong the game unnecessarily *shrug* We'll see after the lynch result.

I will be posting a Prologue later on, if a sneak-peek at the story will make more signup