Izzy

Leaving everything up to chance could cause a spiraling downwards effect. Sometimes we don't have enough time to just let things slip by and work themselves out. In large part, this sort of thing contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire, among other things of course. I mean, around that time was when Christianity began to be preached, and along with it the doctrine of patience. Active virtues of society were discouraged, because this new concept of a god that played an active role in human affairs led to the thoughts that everything would just work themselves out. ...And then the Empire collapsed. So, yeah guys, take some initiative, make an impact on the world. Don't let the future be total crap because you're afraid of personal discomfort. Enough people do that already.

Sarcasm is often missed on the internet. I apologize. But no, seriously. If the majority of people benefit from exposure to certain situations, isn't willful ignorance of these affairs downright selfish? I'm all for personal rights and of course no one's forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but it's just a bit "This scares me, this is unknown to me, this disgusts me, therefore I want to completely blind myself from it." ..It's cool if you want to do this, but if everyone makes that decision, then improving conditions to the point where that thing is not longer a threat will become frustratingly difficult. Fair point about the parents. ...I guess it's just a sexual preference they'll have to learn to deal with? They might not like what they've learned, but tbh, I'd want to know what my kid's up to. This would be a good time to instill some AIDS awareness for their kids..

*mentally debating whether or not to go through your post/online history to verify your statements* Eh... at this point I don't really care. I'll leave it up to everyone else. I mean, you get lynched either way. As a teammate, the *least* you could have done would be something along the lines of "I think Izzy's reasoning is pretty solid. I'm not sure, but I'm going with <person>, but my vote is subject to change."

How long do you need to vote, dude? I checked last night, you were online when I first started the thing for Sayalzah. I was going to PM you to tell you to get on the vote with me, but then remembered we don't have BTSC during the day, so didn't. So, you were online. Then a few hours later: 15ish hours before day ends: 6ish hours before day ends: Day ends: You had plenty of time. No vote defaults to vote for self, leading to ability loss. Which you are well aware of. Had you been able to vote, you would have at least taken a shot in the dark (like Slick did) to avoid that, if you weren't sure whether or not you'd be on.

Quoting it, in case you try denying it later. See, had you been anybody else, you would have started wtfing at me, twisting this into some evil plot to take another goodie down with me before I go join the ghosts. You've admitted being my (ex)teammate. The riddle explains your lack of vote. Case and point.

Oh, come now. True teammates save teammates from getting lynched. You've been exposed to my reasoning, you're not exactly doing a good job of denying it. When did you become the indy minion? Roughly two days ago, give or take a bit. ;P Sorry Sayalzah, had to get you out of the way. No hard feelings, eh? Today should have gone differently.. but I had to keep the tar monster (yeah, know who you are bro, along with pretty much everyone still in the game) alive because of my suspicions of Music. She knew too much, so I had to buy myself time to figure out what to do with her. Tar and 10v should continue carefully..

Since I'm not dead yet and my role is going to be revealed in a second anyway.. *rants with noose 'round neck* MUSIC wtf is wrong with you?! You couldn't vote, I know why (as should anyone who has solved the riddle *cough cough*), but man EPIC fail on the part of you and whoever your indy-master is. Total teammate betrayal, for the obvious reasons, but did you not think that I'd catch on and out you as a sort of revenge scheme? You know what I thought of you, obviously my suspicions didn't go away because of the Sayalzah move I decided to pull. Actually, no, it's not even your fault. You couldn't vote. Hopefully someone knows what that means. Still sorta your fault, you could influence the decision of the person deciding your vote, thus increasing your chances of winning, but nice, you've ruined it. So.. the indy's inactive, that much I can guess at this point. Peace out, go baddies! (Assuming that fails, go goodies!)

I had to google 2g1c to see what you meant. Brought back some horrors from about two years ago. ..I was eating a bagel when my friend linked me to it. Using 2g1c as an example.. Sure, it was gross, you may have vomited, your mind may forever be scarred, but: it passed, think of all the cultural references (like the vids making fun of it) you understand because of it, and how many (pointless or not) jokes you wouldn't understand without it. Would love to see anyone experiencing serious trauma other than "oh em gee, it was grossssssssssss" because of that vid. ..It doesn't happen. You're fine, get over it.

Day up? Since I'm not lynched yet, can I still get one more post as a sort of "final words" thing?

*prods people* Vooooote.

Right. So, basically, what I'm going to assume is that pretty much anything you say you've possibly done, like seeing her recruiting, didn't actually happen because it's too specific to be incorporated into your post if it was true. In that sense, you essentially out yourself, which you seem adamantly against, for understandable reasons. What I see your post as is an attempt to draw attention away from your real role. I was honestly convinced you were Sarah for a while, and then the thought of you being a baddie tempted me, just because of the statistics. You seem like a genuinely intelligent person. The minion-killing-indy plan just seems like the sort of trick I could see you or Kat trying to pull off to ensure a win. *shrugs* I could be dead wrong and the Mafia paranoia is getting to me ( ), but... *shrugs* It makes sense to me.

Finding out Kat's abilities wouldn't necessarily have pinned her as the indy. Seeing what Kat did (ie, killing someone) would have left far too many goodie options open for you to have attacked her like that. Black Night is out. Ghost Clown is possible, but I'm seriously doubting it. *shrugs* It's not really a special plan. Nothing that hasn't been done in prior mafias, though sacrifices are generally made on the baddie team, but because of the unusual independent role, it applies. So yeah, I think you did it.

Dude, guys, if I've realized this, don't you think the baddies would have by now too and RID killed Sayalzah? He's definitely a baddie (or indy). I can't really make it any more clearer.

Okay, remember during one of the days Sayalzah voted for Kat and Gmaster immediately decided to trust him? Turns out Kat was the indy, which Sayalzah had to have known, meaning Sayalzah can probably spy. There are three spying roles: Fred, Velma, and Sarah Ravencloth. So, just based on that, there's a 2/3 chance Sayalzah is a baddie. Now, because of Gmaster's immediate trust, it's possible (I could be completely wrong) that some BTSC was going on there. It's possible that Kat recruited Sayalzah and had him lynch Kat to throw the suspicion off of him. In other words, they hoped no one would solve the riddle, and that when someone finally did, their plan, and the defense of "Dude, I'm innocent, I lynched the indy, remember?" would ensure an independent win. Assuming that fails, they still have another try. I'm not defending Gmaster. I'm pointing out why it is highly probable that Sayalzah is a baddie or the new independent.

Yeah dude, the Bible works so well. Especially the bits about the Earth being flat, the moon being a light, evolution occuring totally out of order, oh, and you know all this stuff. So you're right. The Bible works really well, maybe even better than the concept of God does. I was flipping through the channels last night, and happened to stop on Comedy Central during South Park at the part where the fat kid was yelling at some kid for destroying whathisface's faith in God. So the kid is in the hospital for whatever reason, and his parents try to preach to him before he dies. The kid's response to "The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away" was awesome. "Mom, Dad, why would God do all those bad things just to prove a point to Satan? God's not real after all." Ftw.

1.Izzy - voting forSayalzah 2.GMaster479 - voting for JarZe 3. JarZe - 4.Sayalzah - voting for GMaster479 7.Ictinike 8.Marth 10.Music 13.akaslickster 16.Rihanna Missed Gmaster's vote, sorry. Edit: colors.. I can't post today, apparently. =/

Ooh, actually, you know what makes more sense? Sayalzah was a goodie, but is now trying to cut relations with GMaster because of the indy's ability... if you know what I mean. Okay, so 75% chance Sayalzah is either MI or indy...

Don't forget that the baddies have a RID kill. Which is why it's crucial that NO ONE outs themselves, even in the sake of a defene. Judging from the tar monster thing, the RID is probably unstoppable. Also, woah there Sayalzah.. you voting for GMaster totally just made me lose everything I thought I had figured out about this game. 0.o I'm hoping it's some strategy, and not that I'm dead wrong about you. ..'Cos.. just a bit suspicious, considering only three people have the ability to spy (two of them baddies) and you pinned Kat as the indy. 2/3 chance you're bad, and.. I think voting for GMaster just confirmed that. (Again, unless it's some strategy, and not a serious vote...) 1.Izzy - Sayalzah 2.GMaster479 3. JarZe 4.Sayalzah - voting for GMaster497 7.Ictinike 8.Marth 10.Music 13.akaslickster 16.Rihanna

Eugh, so much for that. I've solved about 98% of the riddle, so while I can't tell you explicitly what I mean (go solve it, it's doable), I was about 70% sure BB fit role now that Kat's dead. However, because the fecking MI killed him, we can't know for sure. Indy may or may not be out there, grah. Tbh, I still think JarZe is pretty suspicious, but that food thing I all I have to go on. Have to leave for school, I'll be on later.

Dude imagine how easy things must be for some people. No desire to question, simply back everything up with "Oh, okay, _____ did it, that's how it's supposed to be, I'll live with that."

I just lol'd. My mom walked over to see what I was doing. >_> Sure, ignorance may be a bliss, but can't better, more productive things make you happy as well, perhaps even more so? Yeah, there are some things, for the sake of my stomach's well-being I'd rather not know, but in the end, I think we're better off knowing about them. Definitely making me the second person, but you already knew that. Ignorance is bliss, but ignorance leads to waaaaay too many world problems, which aren't blissful at all. Think of it long-term. Maybe the thought of people eating bugs in Africa freaks you out, or people with rare birth-defects. Maybe. But, by informing people about it we can actually do something about it, and if "disturbing" things are eliminated, the "bliss level" of the whole world goes up, which is *slightly* more important than your personal well-being for about 15 seconds.

Maybe one of the main problems is that some people (read: a lot..) aren't able to see the validity of science. You, Unreality, and I all know that the reason we have experts with PhDs in a subject is so that, by rank, we know they're certified to tell us things. We know science is peer-reviewed, and that we can usually trust the consensus of experts in a field. A lot of the stuff we accept as fact we've never proven ourselves, from the big bang, to evolution, to DNA, to atoms, gravity, to the cosmos, and so forth. We believe in/have faith in these things because of the overwhelming amount of evidence for them, the general agreement for them, that they nicely fit the "gap" of what's supposed to be there, etc. A lot of the kids (more than half, ffs, and these are smart kids - IB students) in my biology class don't believe in evolution. No matter how well the teacher can explain it to them or the amount of evidence she provides for them, they just won't. I think this might be because of either a general mistrust of scientists, the thought of "Well, I've never actually observed this myself, I don't know if I can believe it", or the extremely annoying "Well, it's only a theory." (Psst, God has failed as a hypothesis, and you won't believe in evolution because it's only a theory? In the unlikelihood that one of my classmates is reading this and disagrees: go look up what a theory is. "It's a theory" sounds pretty strong argument to me..) Adding to that, in a lot of cases, someone's parent/preacher/adult friend is one of their teachers. If you go to school and learn one thing, go home and to church and learn another, yet you're too lazy do any proper research about what's right, you're going to come to the conclusion that's easier to understand or is more comforting. So.. while the people still come to irrational conclusions, they can still be justified - by laziness and just not giving a damn.

I think I'm going to try and have some fun playing devil's advocate in this one. I agree with your OP, making this kind of difficult. I don't actually expect to win whatever debate we might come up with, and if I somehow do.. I'll start arguing myself. (Lmfao, actually, random thought, somewhat pertaining to this. We're doing a myth project in World Religions, and so my atheist friend is doing Jesus, and I'm doing Noah's Ark. Part of the assignment was to find a funny political cartoon. his, mine. The teacher laughed and approved both. ) Anyway.. hmm.. You start with the assumption that the people with irrational opinion's goal is to be correct. Maybe their goal is not to be right, but to live comfortably, happily, and free from worry. They don't spend time concerning themselves with what is right, they're too busy doing what is "right" to them. Maybe it's pure hedonistic behavior - people striving to please themselves and find personal happiness by whatever means they can, including but not limited to jumping out of an airplane (irrational in the "wtf" sense), murdering someone (irrational because in most cases it's entirely immoral and the consequences tend to be severe), and believing in a god (just plain ol' irrational). The first we can dismiss as a unique personality trait. The second comes down, again, mostly to personality. If you're the sort of person unable to give up a grudge and constantly seeking revenge, that's likely something you'll do some day. The third, tbh, boils down to ignorance. We've both seen it in on this site over the past yearish, and no, I really don't want to debate gawd for the umpteenth time. The vast majority of people with irrational beliefs are unaware to the facts. Once they discover the facts (or have them shoved down their throats, internet debate style ), it's usually in a manner they're unwilling to accept. As soon as they admit it comes down to the faith card (which normal people regard as a win, because "Haha, I've just proven your entire argument is irrational, therefore I win!"), the majority are unwilling to budge. ..But you already knew this, now on to the question of why. Other than it making them happy? Man.. Well, okay, there's the hope. And... Well, their "faith" probably makes sense to them. Everyone might see it as an irrational belief, but maybe they never come to that conclusion? If they do, and they still hold on to that position... Uhh... *shrugs* This is hard, dude. =/ I tried. Out of curiosity, is there any evolutionary benefit for fearing science, truth, and all? I'm doubting it, but that seems like a characteristic a LOT of people possess...

I meant if that it's like ten minutes before the end of the day, and you have a whole bunch of votes on you that can't possibly change in time, and you actually are a goodie even if no one believes you, tell us that in those 10 mins, because we'll believe you afterwards (while feeling like morons ourselves) but at least we have something new to go on.

1.Izzy - voting for Clozo 2.GMaster479 - voting for Clozo 3. JarZe - Stuck in a lane somewhere 4.Sayalzah- voting for Kat 5.DudleyDude 6.Framm - voting for Kat 7.Ictinike voting for - Clozo 8.Marth voting for - Sayalzah 9.Clozobozo 10.Music voting for - Clozo 11.Crazypainter voting for - Clozo 12.Riranor 13.akaslickster - voting for Kat 14.Brandonb 15.Kat - voting for Rihanna 16.Rihanna - voting for Clozo ...It only seems like I'm bandwagoning because everyone else pretty much had a vote for Clozo to begin with, but tbh, I'd change my vote to pretty much anyone if that was their defense. Typical noob defense, which we know Clozo is not. If I read that right, you also sorta threatened us? "Get those votes of me or I won't help you." is how I took the second sentence. *shrugs* Help us. Hey, note to all goodies: If you end up getting lynched, don't go with the whole "omg i r sooo pisssed, u guys suuuuck, graaah, morons" attitude. It happens, hopefully you guys are mature enough, but it happens. Tell us what you know before the timer goes off. It'll help in the long run.