Death Note Mafia: Rematch

[Yoruichi-san]

Anyways, hopefully everyone else doesn't follow Itachi's misinterpretation, but I want to make sure everyone knows that I appreciate their efforts and am no way criticizing any player, but I do lament one of the side-effects of specialized roles, which is to cause too much reliance on role abilities and undermining everyone's natural abilities. And hopefully you all can realize that the fact I lament this proves that I think HIGHLY of BrainDenizens' natural abilities. If I didn't I wouldn't have bothered commenting on it, encouraging ppl to use their natural mental abilities.

And as I said, I do think the vote manipulation should be limited to one, now that I think more about it. Not realizing this before was a mistake on my part and I apologize.

But now we're down to the wire...hehe...and yes, I continue with my amalgamation of Shinigami's...;P

[Guest]

Yay. I stammered. Now what?

[Yoruichi-san]

Yay. I stammered. Now what?

It's Night 4.

[Guest]

As for the roles and TF manipulation and what not, I have something to add after the game is over to that effect. I've been sitting on it since I died So hurry up and win, Task Force

[itachi-san]

Anyways, hopefully everyone else doesn't follow Itachi's misinterpretation

Can you stop this please? I'll post my thoughts when it's appropriate after the game ends, not during the game like you continue to do. Like I said, just boot me if you have a problem. I really won't mind. If I'm still playing, please stop singling me out as having 'misinterpreted' your rant about players not thinking; it's getting silly. I don't see how I misinterpreted anything.

[Yoruichi-san]

Can you stop this please? I'll post my thoughts when it's appropriate after the game ends, not during the game like you continue to do. Like I said, just boot me if you have a problem. I really won't mind. If I'm still playing, please stop singling me out as having 'misinterpreted' your rant about players not thinking; it's getting silly. I don't see how I misinterpreted anything.

*Sigh* You're the one who needs to stop it. I know exactly what I was thinking and intending when I wrote the rant, you don't. Stop pretending like you do. That's what's insulting about the whole thing.

[Yoruichi-san]

Okay, since thanks to a friend I can finally see what would cause misinterpretation, let me make this say what I really want it to say (my apologies if it was unclear initially):

[rant=role abilities don't substitute for thinking]

I started out playing "vanilla" mafias where it was all about logic and deception. Playing mafias on BD, I think the specialized roles are interesting and have enjoyed playing them in other games, but I'm concerned that sometimes ppl rely too much on the role abilities and not on their own mental abilities. Role abilities should be considered in addition to your own abilities, not in place of them. Everyone has the ability to be clever, lie, deceive, misdirect, and most importantly, think strategically. I don't believe in limiting what ppl can say on the thread, b/c I believe that's an important part of the game. I think ppl [as an unwarranted side-effect of specialized roles] are too focused on their own roles instead of the big picture of the game.

I'm disappointed with the level of activity in this game. I wake up every morning really excited to read what people have said and see what people are trying to do, and I get sad when I don't see that much. Both L's were correct in encouraging activity. [Added paragraphing to correct the context]

Please don't give up yet, TF. If I were a TF, I'd definitely try to trick the DNH by pretending to be someone I'm not...try to get them to take the bait and out themselves thinking they had manipulated me for the win. And the lack of innocent killing roles is advantageous due to the TF based on how the Death Notes work. It would be very easy and no risk to have pretended to be a Shinigami. These are examples of what the TF can do...I hope you can use them to inspire yourself on what to do next. The TF can still win

[/rant]

Edit: And you know I'm very good at pretending to be a role I'm not...;P

I never said anything about being the best or anything along those lines. I was expressing my opinion in general about specialized roles in mafia games and how I have seen that ppl have a tendency to rely too much on those roles. I am 100% with you on unreality being the founder and his games have been great and fun. ABR has also been great and fun and different. My intend for DNM was to also to be different, and I've specifically stated that many times. I did not direct my statement towards anyone in particular. I am not saying anything about anyone, just on the general trend I've noticed, hoping to alert others to it as well. As for you and the BL thing, it's unfair for you to take my general rant as being directed to you without taking my congratulations to the TF for getting Ryuk as being directed towards you, since it would follow rationally that that would be directed towards the person who accomplished it...

I don't take offense to you post, I just don't understand it, and I think you're misunderstanding me, and being the one taking offense where you shouldn't be. I am all for well thought out constructive criticism, i.e. presenting what you think should change and the reasons why, but the general complaining statements like "aw, I wish we had a killing role right now" without even trying to think about what effect it would have on the entire game is not welcome and basically are equivalent to "aw, I wish I could just magically win right now".

Edit: And as I recall, I was the one defending your ABR setup when others when complaining about it being unbalanced... <_< (b/c I did think it was balanced based on my perspective, and I don't regret doing it)

Alright, that should make it clear what I was trying to say. And again, admitting my error in not realizing earlier that the vote manipulation was still too powerful. My apologies.

And emphasizing that I think HIGHLY of natural mental abilities of BrainDenizens, which I encourage, as opposed to relying too much on role abilities.

[Mekal]

Okay, since thanks to a friend I can finally see what would cause misinterpretation, let me make this say what I really want it to say (my apologies if it was unclear initially):

Alright, that should make it clear what I was trying to say. And again, admitting my error in not realizing earlier that the vote manipulation was still too powerful. My apologies.

And emphasizing that I think HIGHLY of natural mental abilities of BrainDenizens, which I encourage, as opposed to relying too much on role abilities.

Can we get through with this small affair before we get the thread locked... (And i know EXACLY how a thread gets locked... )

Edited November 21, 2008 by Mekal

[Yoruichi-san]

Okay...waiting on Night Actions...

Links

Rules

Intro: Successful Drafts

Night One: If Looks Could Kill...;P

Day One: W-Interception

Night Two: With A Smile On His Face

Day Two: "Shinigami Chop!"

Night Three: A Rose By Any Other Name...Is Just As Thorny

Day Three: "Matsuda May Be The End Of Me"

[Guest]

I actually outted myself several pages back, hoping someone would comment on it and draw the DNH's fire, but I got nothing. Or did I?

I was a little confused about why someone would lie about their role at this point in the game, but I think that I understand now.

[Guest]

I was a little confused about why someone would lie about their role at this point in the game, but I think that I understand now.

Glad that you do

Just happy that the vote worked out in TF's favor...count yourself lucky, dawh I doubt that you would get a third life if you lose your second

[Prof. Templeton]

I was a little confused about why someone would lie about their role at this point in the game, but I think that I understand now.

But I wasn't lying.

[Guest]

Glad that you do

Just happy that the vote worked out in TF's favor...count yourself lucky, dawh I doubt that you would get a third life if you lose your second

Yeah, I probably wouldn't get to take over for someone else at this point in the game. I am glad to still be here, but we have to work together really smoothly if we want to stop the DNH. We have to hope that the DNH don't realize that I am really Mogi.

Moving on to the next day, whatever happens tonight, as long as we think that Matsuda is still alive, Mikami should be our next target. Matsuda may be able to stop Rem's attack if he hasn't been targeted. Otherwise, it might be worthwhile to take down Rem next since Mikami doesn't have the Eyes. This is something that we need to discuss more thoroughly, preferably while there are still more of us alive.

[Guest]

We have to hope that the DNH don't realize that I am really Mogi.

Moving on to the next day, whatever happens tonight, as long as we think that Matsuda is still alive, Mikami should be our next target. Matsuda may be able to stop Rem's attack if he hasn't been targeted. Otherwise, it might be worthwhile to take down Rem next since Mikami doesn't have the Eyes. This is something that we need to discuss more thoroughly, preferably while there are still more of us alive.

You Fools.

God already has given Mikami and Misa your True Names, so do not attempt to trick us. You have been given your chance to join Light's New World but you threw it back in His face and sent Him away from poor Mikami.

So now we avenge Him. And the task force must die.

Silly Matsuda cannot help himself tonight, let alone others: we have no fear of his meaningless fruit. And so we will make an enLightened World in His honour.

You have chosen badly, and it is too late for you to lynch faithful Mikami. Light and Mikami (with Misa and Rem) take their rightful place as victors tonight....

[Guest]

You Fools.

God already has given Mikami and Misa your True Names, so do not attempt to trick us. You have been given your chance to join Light's New World but you threw it back in His face and sent Him away from poor Mikami.

So now we avenge Him. And the task force must die.

Silly Matsuda cannot help himself tonight, let alone others: we have no fear of his meaningless fruit. And so we will make an enLightened World in His honour.

You have chosen badly, and it is too late for you to lynch faithful Mikami. Light and Mikami (with Misa and Rem) take their rightful place as victors tonight....

Did you really think that I would post my real identity on this thread?

I tend to be a slippery character to nail down.

I suppose that now I've given everything away and you know where the poison is.

Go ahead and drink, if you dare.

Edited November 21, 2008 by dawh

[Guest]

Did you really think that I would post my real identity on this thread?

I tend to be a slippery character to nail down.

I suppose that now I've given everything away and you know where the poison is.

Go ahead and drink, if you dare.

Mikami's God has made him drink poison to prove his loyalty. It holds no fear for because Mikami knows that God will protect him.

Stupid dawh has been found with ours Eyes before. But this time, it is your own mouth that gives you away.....

Edited November 21, 2008 by foolonthehill

[Guest]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't get to take over for someone else at this point in the game. I am glad to still be here, but we have to work together really smoothly if we want to stop the DNH. We have to hope that the DNH don't realize that I am really Mogi.

Moving on to the next day, whatever happens tonight, as long as we think that Matsuda is still alive, Mikami should be our next target. Matsuda may be able to stop Rem's attack if he hasn't been targeted. Otherwise, it might be worthwhile to take down Rem next since Mikami doesn't have the Eyes. This is something that we need to discuss more thoroughly, preferably while there are still more of us alive.

Hmm...I agree about getting rid of Mikami. He knows too much Having both a death note and BTSC with Light and Misa to obtain info is quite a big threat. Rem can be taken down later as she does have eyes, but can only use it once a night (vs. Misa's eyes every day plus Light's info if he made the trade), and can only kill on odd nights (vs. Mikami's and Misa's every night attack).

As for the TF's discovery roles, should they use it on each other so they can coordinate with the saving roles, and protect us? I dunno how that will work, but it's better than the discovery roles doing nothing <_<

[Guest]

Hey Rem, Misa is in the dark without her Light and would like to know what true name Rem wrote in the Death Note last night. Misa thinks it must not be the same one that Misa is thinking of.

[Guest]

Hmm...I agree about getting rid of Mikami. He knows too much Having both a death note and BTSC with Light and Misa to obtain info is quite a big threat. Rem can be taken down later as she does have eyes, but can only use it once a night (vs. Misa's eyes every day plus Light's info if he made the trade), and can only kill on odd nights (vs. Mikami's and Misa's every night attack).

As for the TF's discovery roles, should they use it on each other so they can coordinate with the saving roles, and protect us? I dunno how that will work, but it's better than the discovery roles doing nothing <_<

Well first of all, with Brandonb dead, Light is out of the picture; so it's just Misa and Mikami in communication. Mikami will only get the Eyes if Misa dies before him, so the DNH can only discover one role per night. However, so can Rem; Rem spies every night. Rem can't kill tonight, but (s)he will be able to kill tomorrow after we vote for another person. If we get rid of Rem, then there will be only one person spying each night and Mikami will have to guess for the kill. But with Mikami alive, that gives the option of two votes being manipulated each day and night actions being nullified.

As it is, the TF only has one saving role, and that's Matsuda against Rem. So that's another mark towards getting rid of Mikami. The only problem is that if Matsuda dies, Rem will go unchecked...

[Guest]

Well first of all, with Brandonb dead, Light is out of the picture; so it's just Misa and Mikami in communication. Mikami will only get the Eyes if Misa dies before him, so the DNH can only discover one role per night. However, so can Rem; Rem spies every night. Rem can't kill tonight, but (s)he will be able to kill tomorrow after we vote for another person. If we get rid of Rem, then there will be only one person spying each night and Mikami will have to guess for the kill. But with Mikami alive, that gives the option of two votes being manipulated each day and night actions being nullified.

As it is, the TF only has one saving role, and that's Matsuda against Rem. So that's another mark towards getting rid of Mikami. The only problem is that if Matsuda dies, Rem will go unchecked...

The way I look at it, seems like Mikami would be the one being lynched tomorrow Mikami and Misa can work together since Misa has the eyes and a death note, and Mikami has a death note. Misa can kill someone using the info she got with her eyes, and Mikami could use anything that Light had discovered before he died, and Kat's list of people and roles that she kindly decided to provide for the DNH. And I also agree on the manipulating part.

[Guest]

The way I look at it, seems like Mikami would be the one being lynched tomorrow Mikami and Misa can work together since Misa has the eyes and a death note, and Mikami has a death note. Misa can kill someone using the info she got with her eyes, and Mikami could use anything that Light had discovered before he died, and Kat's list of people and roles that she kindly decided to provide for the DNH. And I also agree on the manipulating part.

Well, this is the sort of thing that L was asking us to do. Talk through our problems and try to reason out the best solution. It will be better when more people get on and voice their opinion. There are cases to be made for either target; we just have to figure out which one will give us the best chance and I would say that it does seem to be Mikami, but someone else may see something that we're both missing.

(Edit; I'm trying to generate a couple pages for Y-san. )

Edited November 21, 2008 by dawh

[itachi-san]

Well, this is the sort of thing that L was asking us to do. Talk through our problems and try to reason out the best solution. It will be better when more people get on and voice their opinion. There are cases to be made for either target; we just have to figure out which one will give us the best chance and I would say that it does seem to be Mikami, but someone else may see something that we're both missing.

(Edit; I'm trying to generate a couple pages for Y-san. )

I agree on lynching Mikami tomorrow and I think the TF should know all 3 remaining baddies so there's no need for me to hint about their IDs right now. Suffice it to say that I pinpointed Sinistral and Ben Law on Days 1 and 2.

[Guest]

I'm good with lynching Mikami as long as everyone else is. The problem is making it through the night with enough people as we know we are losing at least 2 tonight from the delayed Death Note kill.

[Prof. Templeton]

You know, I should have claimed to be Rem on the last day and voted for Dawh2, and then switched my vote back at the last minute. We wouldn't have known who the real Rem was, but it would have thrown the DNH into turmoil. I think Kat would have stayed in hiding if I did that. Who knows my vote might have been a manipulated one, then the DNH would have called BS. Something to think about if there's another one and this situation comes up.

The DNH will get two more kills tonight and if Rem gets a kill we'll be down to 5 TF members, Misa will probably delay her kill again forcing another tie in the voting tomorrow. If Mikami also gets a name right yhey will have the majority in the vote. So it all depends on how it goes tonight. Agree?

[Guest]

You know, I should have claimed to be Rem on the last day and voted for Dawh2, and then switched my vote back at the last minute. We wouldn't have known who the real Rem was, but it would have thrown the DNH into turmoil. I think Kat would have stayed in hiding if I did that. Who knows my vote might have been a manipulated one, then the DNH would have called BS. Something to think about if there's another one and this situation comes up.

The DNH will get two more kills tonight and if Rem gets a kill we'll be down to 5 TF members, Misa will probably delay her kill again forcing another tie in the voting tomorrow. If Mikami also gets a name right yhey will have the majority in the vote. So it all depends on how it goes tonight. Agree?

Agreed. And that would have been a good strategy, although I think the DNH might have still won...but as PT said, it all depends on what's going to happen in the night (although not to be a pessimist, but the future of TF doesn't look all too good... )