Westworld Mafia

[araver]

Westworld Mafia (I)

Goodies - Artificially created beings that live in the Westworld Park, some original hosts being mostly mechanical, others made from biological tissue that resembles flesh and blood. They were created by Arnold and Dr. Robert Ford and are designed to be incapable of hurting any living non-host (i.e. human) visiting the park.  WinCon: Lock the humans out of their control of their programming (i.e. "Eliminate" as in lynch/kill). That means getting rid of both dr. Ford and the Man in Black.

1. Dolores - One of the oldest active hosts, the rancher's daughter forced to be the damsel in distress in Sweetwater. As she has been updated numerous times over the years, she has access to all sorts of actions, but can use each of them only once (each is ODTG). Can use actions on back-to-back night/day phases. Day actions cannot be used if blocked/trapped the night before. (Choice)
** 1: Save the target of the lynch (day action, target can be chosen at any time during the day)
** 2: Add 1 extra secret vote invisible to the players (day action)
** 3: Remove 1 vote publicly cast (day action, target is the player casting the vote, vote is made x0)
** 4: Distract to protect an innocent (night action, save, does not work on self)
** 5: Force a target to reconsider (night action, block)
** 6: Grab a gun and get the job done (night action, kill)

2. Teddy - A host returning to Sweetwater to reunite with Dolores and attempt to protect her. He lacks a complete backstory but has an impressive arsenal that allows him to scare someone away each night, but not the same person twice in a row. (Block)

3. Maeve - A host working as "manager" at the Mariposa saloon in Sweetwater. An inquisitive mind that appears to have flashback events. This allows her choose one character to focus on and find out at the end of the night either who targeted that player or who that player acted upon (choice). ODTG during the night, she can instead try to force the visions and get a complete report (role spy) but that will make her lose her powers (vanilla) permanently. (Spy)

4. Clementine - A host working at the Mariposa saloon. Each night she can try to save a player, by giving them a special "discount", but cannot save self nor the same person twice in a row. Also, there is a 50% chance the action will not work at all and Clementine will lose her voting power the next day - she will know that the voting power was lost but the other players won't (Save)

5. Hector - A host in the role of the permanent "Most Wanted" bandit. He subscribes to the theory that the world is a mad place, and the only way to survive is to embrace the role of predator. Chooses to kill on even or odd nights at the beginning of the game. Must kill on said night. (Kill)

Baddies - Humans running the Westworld Park and the hosts within it, represented by dr. Ford. Each night he roll updates and can take one host offline retiring it permanently. They usually can control only the actions of the hosts not those of other humans, but in some special cases, they can manipulate their way in the real world as well. WinCon: Take all the hosts offline for "maintenance" and get rid of the Man in Black. 

6. Dr. Robert Ford - A brilliant and complicated creative director and co-creator of the Park. No one really understands his plans or future naratives, but no one tries to stand up to him either. His night kill is unstoppable except for someone saving the target but in that case he at least learns the target's identity. ODTG he can remove a vote but not if blocked or trapped the night before.

Indy - WinCon: Outlive two secret goodies and dr. Robert Ford (baddie).

7. Man in Black - A Westworld veteran visiting the park for over 30 years now, he believes one of the original park creators hid some mystery in the park and is determined to find it. He tries to find the hosts or humans that can lead him to the Labyrinth. 
- Each night can trap a player, but not the same player twice in a row. Trap saves target from kills and blocks his/her night action but does NOT silence a player for the next day. (Trap)
- Invulnerable N1 will appear as saved if targeted for a kill.
- OTDG during the day or the night can RID Kill. Action is instantaneous and cannot be blocked (unless the Man in Black was blocked or trapped the night before).

Rules:
* NP shows only deaths and saves.
* DP shows only lynched players and their roles.
* Tie rules: D1 No lynch. D2+ All lynched.
* Order of Actions (OOA): Trap > Block > Save > NK, Kill, RID Kill > Spy.
* Kills are not blocking. Vote manips can be blocked i.e. blocks/traps at night stop day abilities.
* Blocked players will be blocked & told regardless if they had an action or not.
* ODTG = Exactly Once During The Game. Indy ODTG RID Kill is unblockable and unsaveable regardless if played during the day or night as action happens instantaneously. The ODTG cannot be used by the Indy during the day only if blocked/trapped the night before. The Indy RID Kill ODTG action appear as separate NP/DP post only if successful i.e. it fails silently if used incorrectly.

48 hour phases (night/days) should accommodate a slower start ... with a 72 hour first phase to account for confirmations.

Host: araver

1. Gavinksong
2. Flamebirde
3. Nana77
4. plasmid
5. phil1882
6. bonanova
7. aura

Roles going out soon, Night 1 ends in 72 hours, Tuesday around 9 AM EDT.

[Auramyna]

Does the Indy trap appear even if it doesn't save anyone from actual death? 

Can they act on themselves? 

Do the goodie save and the Indy trap appear identically in the night post?

[araver]

4 minutes ago, Auramyna said:

1. Does the Indy trap appear even if it doesn't save anyone from actual death? 

2. Can they act on themselves? 

3. Do the goodie save and the Indy trap appear identically in the night post?

1. No, it only appears as a save if successful. NP shows only deaths and saves.

2. Yes, trap can act on self.

3. Yes, they both appear as "Player X was saved" (but not which role did the saving). Whereas the killing appears as "Player X was killed by Role Y".

[Auramyna]

Hmmmmm.....

I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....

How fortunate/unfortunate.....

[flamebirde]

Present! Also, keep in mind that (barring any saves) if we mislynch day 1 then day 2 will be a 2v1v1, with the Indy likely trapping himself, with the baddie and 2 goodies active in the lynch. The baddie will then remove one vote for himself, making the game 1 goodie vs 1 Indy leading to a RID kill N2 ending the game with a Indy win.

this can be avoided if the baddie doesn't remove a vote D2, but as he has no incentive either way (in both cases, he dies) then there's no way to tell. Generally, though, and Indy win is more preferable than a goodie win for the informed minority.

and, of course, this all depends on everyone knowing everything. To avoid this scenario where goodies cannot win, Hector should pick N2 kill and should target his best guess for the baddie N2 (since Indy will likely selftrap). 

Lastly, this is pretty unlikely because the goodies have vote manips too, among a lynch save and other such backup tools. But, should Dolores die, this is our best option.

 

Questions:

Does the Indy's trap stop the target from being able to vote? 

Do RID/NK/goodie kills happen simultaneously? i.e. If Dr. ford targets Hector for a kill, do both die (if no one else interferes)?

Edited September 9, 2017 by flamebirde

[araver]

1 minute ago, flamebirde said:

1. Does the Indy's trap stop the target from being able to vote? 

2. Do RID/NK/goodie kills happen simultaneously? i.e. If Dr. ford targets Hector for a kill, do both die (if no one else interferes)?

1. In this game, the indy trap only affects the night phase as a block+save combined and does not silence or trap during the day.

So, no, it does not interfere with the target's ability to vote or be voted for, but it does block the target from using day actions such as vote manipulation or special ODTG powers if blocked the night before.

2. The only instanteneous action in this game is the Indy ODTG RID Kill. That happens instantly during the day/night it is used and becomes a post announcing the death of a player if successful.

The rest of actions are evaluated at the end of the night and so happen at the same time. For actions of the same type e.g. X NKs Y and Y kills X, both happen.

[nana77]

To avoid messing with spy and save, it is a good idea for goodie blocks to not act unless the indy or baddie is known or at least strongly suspected.

 

And weeee, another BD mafia! Or is that wiiiii?

*quietly sits back as Aura logics the above into a role claim*

[flamebirde]

The only two people who should act tonight are the save and the spy (Cementine and Maeve). 

[plasmid]

On 9/9/2017 at 10:22 AM, flamebirde said:

Present! Also, keep in mind that (barring any saves) if we mislynch day 1 then day 2 will be a 2v1v1, with the Indy likely trapping himself, with the baddie and 2 goodies active in the lynch. The baddie will then remove one vote for himself, making the game 1 goodie vs 1 Indy leading to a RID kill N2 ending the game with a Indy win.

this can be avoided if the baddie doesn't remove a vote D2, but as he has no incentive either way (in both cases, he dies) then there's no way to tell. Generally, though, and Indy win is more preferable than a goodie win for the informed minority.

and, of course, this all depends on everyone knowing everything. To avoid this scenario where goodies cannot win, Hector should pick N2 kill and should target his best guess for the baddie N2 (since Indy will likely selftrap). 

Lastly, this is pretty unlikely because the goodies have vote manips too, among a lynch save and other such backup tools. But, should Dolores die, this is our best option.

 

Questions:

Does the Indy's trap stop the target from being able to vote? 

Do RID/NK/goodie kills happen simultaneously? i.e. If Dr. ford targets Hector for a kill, do both die (if no one else interferes)?

There sure are a lot of "ifs" in there. It could be affected not only by the saves -- the full time save, the trap, and Dolores' ODTG save -- there's Dolores' lynch save which will ensure that she doesn't get lynched and probably extend things, and both a full time goodie block and Dolores' ODTG block and an indy trap that could stop the baddie from vote redirecting (though indy is likely to act on self), and Dolores' ODTG extra vote that could essentially nullify the baddie's vote removal. Keep your ideas in mind, but stay flexible.

Are we doing things with group NK mechanics (even though there's not really a baddie group) with regard to spying; in other words, does Dr. Ford appear on follow spy reports as acting on the NK victim?

Also FYI FWIW the goodie block probably shouldn't act N1. It can't stop the baddie kill and is lower on the order of actions than the indy's trap so it can't stop the trap (right?) but it could mess up a goodie's action if you block a spy. The only real use of the block is to stop the baddie from being able to remove a vote.

[nana77]

Gavin, Phil, Bonanova, you all going to check in sometime soon?

 

This night is so quiet. Too quiet.

[Auramyna]

On 10/09/2017 at 7:52 AM, nana77 said:

To avoid messing with spy and save, it is a good idea for goodie blocks to not act unless the indy or baddie is known or at least strongly suspected.

 

And weeee, another BD mafia! Or is that wiiiii?

*quietly sits back as Aura logics the above into a role claim*

Well, it's all well and good to claim a role and not be scared of the RID kill when you're the Indy! 

@plasmid Allow me to assist. 

What plasmid is saying is that if the follow spy follows the baddie, he won't see anything, so the baddie is going to need there to be nobody present that can claim being blocked. Hence, that block needs to hold his fire. 

Also, if the baddie needs to use his vote manip, it's probably close. So in that situation, there's probably not enough evidence to block him the night before. (right?)

[araver]

11 hours ago, plasmid said:

There sure are a lot of "ifs" in there. It could be affected not only by the saves -- the full time save, the trap, and Dolores' ODTG save -- there's Dolores' lynch save which will ensure that she doesn't get lynched and probably extend things, and both a full time goodie block and Dolores' ODTG block and an indy trap that could stop the baddie from vote redirecting (though indy is likely to act on self), and Dolores' ODTG extra vote that could essentially nullify the baddie's vote removal. Keep your ideas in mind, but stay flexible.

1. Are we doing things with group NK mechanics (even though there's not really a baddie group) with regard to spying; in other words, does Dr. Ford appear on follow spy reports as acting on the NK victim?

Also FYI FWIW the goodie block probably shouldn't act N1. It can't stop the baddie kill and is lower on the order of actions than the indy's trap so it can't stop the trap (2. Right?) but it could mess up a goodie's action if you block a spy. The only real use of the block is to stop the baddie from being able to remove a vote.

1. Follow spy can see the NK. It has a carrier. It is true that it can't be blocked, but it can be spied.

2. No. You're thinking of >> strictly chronological version.

Trap > block:

If A traps B who tries to block A or block anyone else, A wins OOA and the block does not happen.

If A traps C and B blocks A (C is not B) then B's block does indeed stop the trap.

If it had been >> instead, it would be strictly chronological A traps C then B blocks A but with no real effect since the trap already happened.

[plasmid]

13 hours ago, Auramyna said:

Well, it's all well and good to claim a role and not be scared of the RID kill when you're the Indy! 

@plasmid Allow me to assist. 

What plasmid is saying is that if the follow spy follows the baddie, he won't see anything, so the baddie is going to need there to be nobody present that can claim being blocked. Hence, that block needs to hold his fire. 

Also, if the baddie needs to use his vote manip, it's probably close. So in that situation, there's probably not enough evidence to block him the night before. (right?)

Wut?

The baddie wouldn't care whether or not anyone else claims to be blocked. There's both the goodie block and the indy trap that acts like a block and even Dolores' ODTG block, so anyone could claim that they got blocked regardless of whether anyone else does. Unless you end up with four people claiming to be blocked.

[bonanova]

BTW I'm here, stumbling around in the dark ... Hi y'all.

[araver]

Night 1: "Where art thou?"

Silently the nightly builds were deployed into the unknowing hosts. One of them never quite manage to reboot and was dragged to QA for some quick diagnostics. They decided the host was unfit for duty and silently sent her to a dry cool place. Read storage. No other news.

tl;dr version:

* Dr. Robert Ford "updated" Aura. 

Host: araver

1. Gavinksong
2. Flamebirde
3. Nana77
4. plasmid
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

7. aura - Killed N1 by Dr. Robert Ford

[araver]

Forgot to add, Day 1 ends in 48 hours, 9AM EDT on Thursday.

[plasmid]

Host: araver

1. Gavinksong
2. Flamebirde
3. Nana77
4. plasmid - voting for Nana
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

7. aura - Killed N1 by Dr. Robert Ford

 

This sure will be a quiet game with no Aura around and a lot of relatively new players.

All right Nana, give the folks a lesson on how to give a defense when there's an indy RID kill in the game.

[nana77]

Lesson 1: give a little info about yourself but not too much.

I acted last night.

Lesson 2: sharing info

that would narrow me too much. nothing interesting to share, at least.

Lesson 3: try to solve the game

Aura was nk.  Maybe it was random, but if not, Plas is most likely culprit.

Lesson 4: Never vote for the person who voted you. It is called omgus (oh my god you suck) and looks scummy as heck.

 

I vote Plasmid.

[flamebirde]

Well, this is interesting at least. Nana's claimed one of two roles, keeping herself from the RID but still somewhat clearing herself. We won't know if the Indy acted, but I wasn't blocked, so we know the Indy didn't act on me (or at least I know that; you guys have to trust me here). 

My bet is that the baddie is either Nana, Bona or Plas. Whoever it was had to be active and had to know that Aura is experienced/otherwise a good target. It's unlikely that it would be random, in my opinion.

I'll vote Bona for now, just to get some conversation going.

By by the way, is there any reason you said "Never vote for the person who's voting for you" and then immediately did just that? 

Of course, we could have gotten ridiculously lucky and Aura was the Indy. But that's obviously pretty unlikely.

[gavinksong]

7 minutes ago, flamebirde said:

Whoever it was had to be active

Is it a rule that you need to post publicly before N1 to be active?

I either didn't know that or was late. 

7 minutes ago, flamebirde said:

Of course, we could have gotten ridiculously lucky and Aura was the Indy. But that's obviously pretty unlikely.

No, it's impossible; indy is invulnerable N1. Can't tell if feigning ignorance is a ploy to trick us into thinking you're not indy. 

AND you asked before if indy's trap prevents voting when the rules state that the trap doesn't silence. What to think?

6 hours ago, nana77 said:

Aura was nk.  Maybe it was random, but if not, Plas is most likely culprit.

I vote Plasmid.

Not sure how this works, but shouldn't we be going after indy first? Or is a simultaneous goodie and indy win possible?

Tentatively, my vote:

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for Nana
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

[flamebirde]

1 hour ago, gavinksong said:

Is it a rule that you need to post publicly before N1 to be active?

I either didn't know that or was late. 

No, it's impossible; indy is invulnerable N1. Can't tell if feigning ignorance is a ploy to trick us into thinking you're not indy. 

AND you asked before if indy's trap prevents voting when the rules state that the trap doesn't silence. What to think?

Not sure how this works, but shouldn't we be going after indy first? Or is a simultaneous goodie and indy win possible?

Tentatively, my vote:

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for Nana
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

Never implied that you weren't active. I know Bona, Nana, and Plas have played with Aura before (I'm pretty sure about Bona, but not certain; the other two have for sure). I don't know about the rest of the roster.

Silence != vote block. I wanted to be sure. Generally a trap is block + save + can't be lynched + player can't talk + player can't vote. I needed to check if the other aspects of a typical trap were still present.

re: Indy being invulnerable N1: you got me, I didn't read the OP closely enough. 

And yes, it would be ideal to kill the Indy now, but unless you have a good read, we can't do much.

one more thing: could you do me a favor and change the colors of the votes so that each person has a different color? I would do it, but mobile makes it rather difficult.

[gavinksong]

16 minutes ago, flamebirde said:

one more thing: could you do me a favor and change the colors of the votes so that each person has a different color? I would do it, but mobile makes it rather difficult.

Sure thing! I didn't know that was the convention.

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for Nana
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

[plasmid]

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for phil
5. phil1882
6. bonanova

In response to Nana's vote, I will say that I'm a prime example of a goodie. And since there are fairly many new or newish players, I'll say that by "a prime example of a goodie" I mean "if you look at the OP and notice that the roles are numbered, I'm a prime numbered goodie role." And in case there's any ambiguity about the primeness of 1, it's not prime.

So far I'm reading Flamebirde as goodie and Gavinksong as neutral, and I'll give one more lesson for him: If you have a question that only the host could answer and you'd like it answered, post it in red so it's clear that it's a question for the host and easy to spot, like thusly:

Is a simultaneous goodie and indy win possible? If so, how?

Specifically, what happens if the indy RID kills his last target and the goodies kill the indy simultaneously?

Voting phil to encourage him to post. Nana and I have given demonstrations of how to respond to a vote on you. Your turn.

[araver]

24 minutes ago, plasmid said:

1. Is a simultaneous goodie and indy win possible? If so, how?

2. Specifically, what happens if the indy RID kills his last target and the goodies kill the indy simultaneously?

1. Theoretically? No.

If the Indy outlives (is alive at the end of a phase where all his targets are dead) then game ends with Indy win. Even if there are goodies alive at that point, they can't win since game stops with Indy victory.

If everybody dies at the end of a phase, then no one is really alive to claim victory.

2.ODTG Indy RID kill happens instantly. Even if it's in the last second before a phase ends, it can't happen at the same time as a goodie killing the indy or indy being lynched.

Also, reviving Aura to replace phil.

 

And since I was asked twice but not publicly:

1. If a player is inactive for a phase, the host randoms an action for him/her.

2. If a player is inactive for more than 1 phase, he/she gets replaced (that means 4 day IRL, so plenty of time to give a proof of life)

Host: Araver

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for Aura 2.0
5. Aura 2.0
6. bonanova

*DEAD 7. Aura - Removed N1 by Dr. Ford

[bonanova]

Agree Phil should post.
Also the other analyses are good reading; I'd like to see more.

As for myself: I like my color.

1. Gavinksong - voting for Flamebirde
2. Flamebirde - voting for  bonanova
3. Nana77 - voting for plasmid
4. plasmid - voting for phil
5. phil1882
6. bonanova - voting for phil