unreality

or the answer is none at all.... Mr. Cheap wasnt paying, Mr. Obtuse was! lol

or they went in on different days or months or years... you might want to add: "in the same day" to your post.

i just made this up (but im basing it off another problem, just complicating it) There is a hill with a path on it (this is the only way up/down). The path is 16 miles. Every day Old Man Jenkins and his dog go up together, and back down. However the dog is getting old, and can only go at half Jenkins' speed. However everyone must go the same speed going down the hill, which is the dog's climbing speed or 1/2 Jenkins' speed, because they have to pick their way around rocks and wahtnot. So this is what they do: Jenkins goes to the summit, comes back down, and when he meets the dog they both go back down together because they both have to go back down at the same speed. Today, his wife is joining them as well. She can go 3/4 Jenkins' speed. This is what they do: They all leave together of course, and when Jenkins hits the top he turns around and goes back down- and when he reaches his wife, coming up, they both switch directions. Jenkins goes back up, to turn around again on the summit and come down, and his wife switches and goes downward. When the wife hits the dog, the same thing happens. The dog goes back down, but the wife goes up. When she and her husband run into each other, the wife gets to go back down to the bottom of the hill but Jenkins has to go back up to the top then down again. How many miles has Jenkins gone, from the moment they start from the moment he gets to the bottom of the hill?

this is an old casino problem originally made with three turtle shells and a pea. its a fun one

okay i've had enough of this. ANYONE who thinks it is 1/2, PLEASE come forward and state your case. Those who do not we will assume agree with us that it is 1/3. To anyone that still thinks it is 1/2, we will correct the flaw in your arguement.

lol

okay now im just confused. nevermind. lol.

yeah... the man won but he owed the boy so it was even... i get it now

read my spoiler please. then tell me where in the reasoning i went wrong. then i will fix it

time for a new salesman problem, that ones all done...

we know... Door 1: unknown Door 2: a solicitor stands here Door 3: unknown Awesome Door: realtor, unknown Neutral Door: solicitor, unknown Bad Door: unknown profession, LIAR therefore Door 2 is NOT the Awesome Door... it is either the Neutral Door or Bad Door, since a solicitor is in front of Door 2, but a realtor is in front of the awesome door, so the Awesome door is either 1 or 3 ask person 1: are you a realtor standing in front of the awesome door? ask person 2: are you a solicitor and is person 1 a liar? ask person 3: is person 1 a solicitor? i think this might work. not sure though. if person 1 says yes, he is either a truthteller, and this is the awesome door, or he is a liar and a realtor in front of any door but the awesome door, or he is a liar and he is in front of the awesome door, but he is a solicitor. But this is impossible, as the person in front of the awesome door is a realtor, we know this for sure. Therefore if person 1 is a truthteller, he is a realtor-truthteller and this is the awesome door, if person 1 is a liar, then he is a solicitor-liar and this is the neutral or bad door. now if person 1 says no... if he is a truthteller, he is a solicitor standing in front of the bad or neutral door. But a liar stands in front of the bad door. So if he says no and is a truthteller, he is a solicitor standing in front of the neutral door (which we know there definitely is an S in front of the N door so that fits) now if person 1 is a liar and said no, he is either a realtor standing in front of the neutral or bad door, or a solicitor standing in front of the awesome door- but this cant work, because a realtor is in front of the awesome door. The last option for him is to be a solicitor standing in front of either the neutral or bad door. Therefore if person 1 says "no", door 1 is NOT the awesome door. And we know Door 2 is NOT the awesome door. So if person 1 says "no" you dont need to ask any more questions... the awesome door is door 3 so now suppose he said yes. Now if we find out if he is a truthteller, door 1 is the awesome door. If we find out he is a liar, door 3 is the awesome door. i might have to rephrase questions 2 and 3... hmmm... i will post this and then continue this *** continuation: so if person 1 said NO, door 3 is Awesome so this is all if person 1 said YES... copying my description of what the deal is if he said yes: "if person 1 says yes, he is either a truthteller, and this is the awesome door, or he is a liar and a realtor in front of any door but the awesome door, or he is a liar and he is in front of the awesome door, but he is a solicitor. But this is impossible, as the person in front of the awesome door is a realtor, we know this for sure. Therefore if person 1 is a truthteller, he is a realtor-truthteller and this is the awesome door, if person 1 is a liar, then he is a solicitor-liar and this is the neutral or bad door." since door 2 is NOT the awesome door, if person 1 is a truthteller, door 1 is the awesome door, and if person 1 is a liar this is NOT the awesome door, but since door 2 is also NOT the awesome door, we can say if person 1 is a liar, we know the awesome door to be door 3 so now we just have to figure out if person 1 is a truthteller (thus door 1) or a liar (thus door 3). To do this we can use the questions for persons 2 and 3 these are the questions i spontaneously thought of for 2&3: ask person 2: are you a solicitor and is person 1 a liar? ask person 3: is person 1 a solicitor? lets see if they'll work. now we know person 2 is a solicitor. So if he answers YES: if he is a truthteller, person 1 is a liar and thus the Awesome door is door 3 if he is a liar, we know he is telling the truth about being a solicitor, so he must be lying about person 1 being a liar. Therefore person 1 is a truthteller and the awesome door is door 1 if he answers NO: he cannot be a truthteller, as we know he is a solicitor. Therefore he is a liar who is already lying about being a solicitor so he could be either lying or telling the truth about person 1, we cant know therefore we must rephrase the question: ask person 2: are you a solicitor and a liar and is person 1 a liar? if he says YES: a truthteller cannot say yes to all segments of that statement because nobody can call themselves a liar. So he is a liar. And he is a solicitor. So is he telling the truth about the first two things (he is a solicitor and a liar) so he has to lie about at least one thing. So person 1 is a truthteller (and the awesome door is Door 1) if person 2 says YES if he says NO, he cannot be a truthteller either, because he is a solicitor for sure. So if he says NO, he is a liar. he is already lying about being a solicitor by saying NO when he is one, and we know he is lying about being a liar, he has already lied in this statement, so if he says NO he could either be lying or telling the truth about person 1, and it is down to person 3. if he cannot decide, or objects to the question, etc, he is a truthteller, because a YES or NO answer to that is impossible for a truthteller. Then you can reask the question: "Is person 1 a truthteller?" If YES, the awesome door is door 1. If NO, the awesome door is door 3. So the questions so far: ask person 1: are you a realtor standing in front of the awesome door? ask person 2: are you a solicitor and a liar and is person 1 a liar? we know these two questions will lead you to the right door (either 1 or 3) in every scenario, EXCEPT when person 1 says YES and then person 2 says NO. Then it is all down to the question we ask person 3 for that tiny scenario. Obviously the random one i thought up wont suffice... so can anyone think of a question for person 3 in the event that the first two questions dont come conclusive (a YES, then a NO)? therefore, my favorite solution (see the spoiler right above this to see why): ask person 1: are you a realtor standing in front of the awesome door? if NO, it is Door 3. if YES, move on to question 2 ask person 2: are you a solicitor and a liar and is person 1 a liar? if YES, it is Door 1. if UNDECIDED, it is door 3 or 1 (known after asking the for-sure truthteller). If NO, move on to question 3 Ask person 3: If i asked you 5 seconds ago which door you were standing in front of, would you have said the Awesome door? if NO, it is Door 1 if YES, it is Door 3

hey martini, we can merge our answers! for my question 3: Ask person 3: If i asked you 5 seconds ago which door you were standing in front of, would you have said the Awesome door? if no, it is Door 1 if yes, it is Door 3 look at the post two above this to see why (read my own spoiler i quoted first, then read the spoiler i made after the quote ends)

doh! Martini i reread your answer and it is right, of course. Sorry i figured asking him 5 seconds ago would be the same as just asking him now, of which there are many flaws.... your answer is very clever lol sorry for doubting you anyway i need some help with my answer lol (the post right above this) its almost done, i just need to tweek question 3

so if person 1 said NO, door 3 is Awesome so this is all if person 1 said YES... copying my description of what the deal is if he said yes: "if person 1 says yes, he is either a truthteller, and this is the awesome door, or he is a liar and a realtor in front of any door but the awesome door, or he is a liar and he is in front of the awesome door, but he is a solicitor. But this is impossible, as the person in front of the awesome door is a realtor, we know this for sure. Therefore if person 1 is a truthteller, he is a realtor-truthteller and this is the awesome door, if person 1 is a liar, then he is a solicitor-liar and this is the neutral or bad door." since door 2 is NOT the awesome door, if person 1 is a truthteller, door 1 is the awesome door, and if person 1 is a liar this is NOT the awesome door, but since door 2 is also NOT the awesome door, we can say if person 1 is a liar, we know the awesome door to be door 3 so now we just have to figure out if person 1 is a truthteller (thus door 1) or a liar (thus door 3). To do this we can use the questions for persons 2 and 3 these are the questions i spontaneously thought of for 2&3: ask person 2: are you a solicitor and is person 1 a liar? ask person 3: is person 1 a solicitor? lets see if they'll work. now we know person 2 is a solicitor. So if he answers YES: if he is a truthteller, person 1 is a liar and thus the Awesome door is door 3 if he is a liar, we know he is telling the truth about being a solicitor, so he must be lying about person 1 being a liar. Therefore person 1 is a truthteller and the awesome door is door 1 if he answers NO: he cannot be a truthteller, as we know he is a solicitor. Therefore he is a liar who is already lying about being a solicitor so he could be either lying or telling the truth about person 1, we cant know therefore we must rephrase the question: ask person 2: are you a solicitor and a liar and is person 1 a liar? if he says YES: a truthteller cannot say yes to all segments of that statement because nobody can call themselves a liar. So he is a liar. And he is a solicitor. So is he telling the truth about the first two things (he is a solicitor and a liar) so he has to lie about at least one thing. So person 1 is a truthteller (and the awesome door is Door 1) if person 2 says YES if he says NO, he cannot be a truthteller either, because he is a solicitor for sure. So if he says NO, he is a liar. he is already lying about being a solicitor by saying NO when he is one, and we know he is lying about being a liar, he has already lied in this statement, so if he says NO he could either be lying or telling the truth about person 1, and it is down to person 3. if he cannot decide, or objects to the question, etc, he is a truthteller, because a YES or NO answer to that is impossible for a truthteller. Then you can reask the question: "Is person 1 a truthteller?" If YES, the awesome door is door 1. If NO, the awesome door is door 3. So the questions so far: ask person 1: are you a realtor standing in front of the awesome door? ask person 2: are you a solicitor and a liar and is person 1 a liar? we know these two questions will lead you to the right door (either 1 or 3) in every scenario, EXCEPT when person 1 says YES and then person 2 says NO. Then it is all down to the question we ask person 3 for that tiny scenario. Obviously the random one i thought up wont suffice... so can anyone think of a question for person 3 in the event that the first two questions dont come conclusive (a YES, then a NO)?

but more than one person can say "yes" remember, for a lie to be a lie, only one segment of the statement has to be a lie, the rest can be truth. for example, a liar who's name is Bob and has $2: Question: "Is your name Bob and do you have $1?" Bob could answer Yes. Sure his name is Bob, so thats true, but he has $2, not one. Thats where your solution is wrong. Maybe you should reread my description of "Liars" or the admin's description of "Swindelcants" we know... Door 1: unknown Door 2: a solicitor stands here Door 3: unknown Awesome Door: realtor, unknown Neutral Door: solicitor, unknown Bad Door: unknown profession, LIAR therefore Door 2 is NOT the Awesome Door... it is either the Neutral Door or Bad Door, since a solicitor is in front of Door 2, but a realtor is in front of the awesome door, so the Awesome door is either 1 or 3 ask person 1: are you a realtor standing in front of the awesome door? ask person 2: are you a solicitor and is person 1 a liar? ask person 3: is person 1 a solicitor? i think this might work. not sure though. if person 1 says yes, he is either a truthteller, and this is the awesome door, or he is a liar and a realtor in front of any door but the awesome door, or he is a liar and he is in front of the awesome door, but he is a solicitor. But this is impossible, as the person in front of the awesome door is a realtor, we know this for sure. Therefore if person 1 is a truthteller, he is a realtor-truthteller and this is the awesome door, if person 1 is a liar, then he is a solicitor-liar and this is the neutral or bad door. now if person 1 says no... if he is a truthteller, he is a solicitor standing in front of the bad or neutral door. But a liar stands in front of the bad door. So if he says no and is a truthteller, he is a solicitor standing in front of the neutral door (which we know there definitely is an S in front of the N door so that fits) now if person 1 is a liar and said no, he is either a realtor standing in front of the neutral or bad door, or a solicitor standing in front of the awesome door- but this cant work, because a realtor is in front of the awesome door. The last option for him is to be a solicitor standing in front of either the neutral or bad door. Therefore if person 1 says "no", door 1 is NOT the awesome door. And we know Door 2 is NOT the awesome door. So if person 1 says "no" you dont need to ask any more questions... the awesome door is door 3 so now suppose he said yes. Now if we find out if he is a truthteller, door 1 is the awesome door. If we find out he is a liar, door 3 is the awesome door. i might have to rephrase questions 2 and 3... hmmm... i will post this and then continue this

yeah i just reread it sorry

yeah i already shot him down too with a different explanation. no way he can even say its 1/2 now... muhahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa

any explanation there? lol i mean why 5 seconds.. they dont switch doors or anything... edit- martini i think you are wrong... the liar in front of the Bad Door could just say "Yes" as well... he could say 'yes' or 'no' you need to incorporate their professions into the questions, as well as the identity of at least one door, in order to solve it, i think...

i think i've got one... you are playing a game, of sorts. You were pushed in a room via a door, and there are three doors in the room. One of the doors is the door you were pushed in from; it's the Neutral Door, it just goes back to the world. Nothing bad about it. But nothing good either. One of the doors is the Awesome Door. This has fame, glory, fortune, wealth, health, love, good luck, good food, knowledge, wisdom... anything and everything that makes you happy. And one of the doors is the Bad Door. You drop for endless miles only to hit the ground hard in a smelly pit, yet you are kept long enough for the trickling water and smell and slow acid to make you go mad before you die. Yep, it's a Bad Door. You do not know which door is which. There are three salesmen in the room with you- one in front of each door. The salesmen only know what is behind their own door, they don't know what are behind the other two. Remember all the Salesmen are either Realtors or Solicitors, and they are all either Liars or Truthtellers (there are no Total Liars here). Each salesman knows the identity of the other two, he knows if they are lying realtors or truthtelling solicitors, etc. You know a Realtor is in front of the Awesome Door. A Solicitor is in front of the Neutral Door. Either one could be in front of the Bad Door, but you know the one in front of the Bad Door is a liar. Call the three doors A, B and C, their matching salesmen are 1,2,3 Remember you don't know which door is which. The goal is to NOT go through the Bad Door, and IDEALLY go through the Awesome door, though if you have to go through the Neutral Door its not bad. Anyway, your solution must definitely take away the option of going through the Bad Door, lets just say that... the best solution would be one that guarantees you to go through the Awesome door Oh yeah, you know there is a Solicitor in front of Door 2, his Solicitor badge fell out. You can ask each Salesman ONE question... what do you ask them?

I'll lay down a set of rules for future Salesmen problems... Truthtellers: every segment of every statement is the truth Liars: at least one segment of EACH statement is a lie... therefore if you a Liar says 2 statements (they can be in the same sentence/line, or not) each statement MUST have at least one segment that is a lie Total Liars: every segment of every statement is a lie... be careful with these, they could get very contradictory very fast... -- Realtors: >>>>>>>> Do not affect whether one is a Liar or Truthteller Solicitors: so anyone thinkin of a good Salesman problem?

thanks guys! and good solutions! yes A is the murderer and they are both liars... however i assumed we are dealing with the honestant/swindelcant approach to truthtellers and liars: truthtellers: every segment of their statement is TRUE liars: at least one segment of their statement is FALSE. Each "statement" has multiple segments, but they can have multiple statements in a sentence, it doesnt matter. its like AND and OR... with AND, everything has to match, with OR, just one thing, though more is okay. Good thing we dont have XOR in swindelcant logic (that would be if one and only one segment is a lie... lol...) therefore: We know B is a liar. We know at least one thing he says is false. But he only says one thing... that A is trustworthy. Thus A is also a liar. Now B's statement doesnt matter. We just look at A's statement: A: I am not the murderer! B is a lying Solicitor! Since A is a liar, AT LEAST one thing he says must be a lie. We already know he is telling the truth about B being a liar. But remember, A talking about not being a murderer is an entirely different statement. You can have as many or as little statements in a conversation line as you want. If they are different statements... break it down: A: I am not the murderer. (So A is the murderer) A: B is a lying solicitor! (We know B is lying.... so A is telling the truth there. Thus he must lie in the other segment of the statement... meaning B is a Realtor) Thus: A = murderer, liar, unknown occupation B = innocent, liar, realtor Of course I should make the problem more complete by saying "You know at least one of them is a Solicitor"... then you guys would then be able to pin the Solicitor job to A... hmmm...

READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS! You are assuming we are told which girl is first and second... WE ARE NOT TOLD IF THE GIRL IS FIRST OR SECOND! We are just told that ONE OF THEM is A GIRL... we agree on this: GG GB BG we dont know if the girl is first, or the girl is second. I agree. If we KNEW the girl was first: GG GB it would be 1/2 if we KNEW the girl was second: GG BG it would be 1/2 BUT WE DO NOT KNOW! GG BG GB It is 1/3

i made this up a salesman is found dead! it was one of the other two salesmen in the room. There are two kinds of salesmen... Solicitors and Realtors. (Not my kinda people. lol...) You don't know who is who. You know that each person can either be always lying (like a swindelcant) or always telling the truth (honestant). Whether you're a Solicitor or Realtor does not affect if you are a Liar or a Truthteller. The two people are A and B. Who is the murderer, and describe each person (example: Lying Solicitor, Truthtelling Solicitor, Lying Realtor, or Truthtelling Realtor) A: I am not the murderer! B is a lying Solicitor! B: You can trust everything A says.

yeah

i have another solution: the carnie has 7 scales in his truck. Each of them ALWAYS says the same number, as long as a slight amount of weight triggers it, to look like its a real scale. The values are: 70, 90, 120, 160, 210, 230 and 270 he sizes up his customers and picks one of those seven numbers that he thinks is closest to their weight. Then he says the number. If the customer says "Right on!" he is surprised, but pleasantly surprised, as he won without effort. But if they deny him, he pulls out a scale- but its not any old scale, its the scale of that value, and "weighs" the person... he is exactly on mark! The pissed off customer must pay him $50... not a bad little carnie trick