plasmid

Sorry to hear the news, Grayven. I hope your circumstances improve soon, and I'll definitely hold off starting a new thread until after you get a chance to toss in your 2 cents. As for the revised monk parable, the concepts of determinism and allusions to randomness arising outside the laws of classical mechanics seem too advanced for an ancient setting (or maybe I'm just not aware of how much people really knew back then.) Unreality originally had it set at the time of the Principia. That would allow it to address such topics, but would require something more low-key than a monk walking the walls of Phronist ruins. Instead of moving the parable back in time, how about if it were kept in the 17th century but dealt with a grandfather who knew of and passed down the Phronist legends and is teaching his kids?

Not sure how a panhandler would cause an explosion or pandemic, and casinos can't go to most places where people gather (not throughout most of the US anyway). Hugemonkey got something that's close enough for me to give it to him, even though I had something slightly different in mind.

How could I possibly resist an "I'm not a..." riddle?

I think I can call this an acceptable solution, even though I had something slightly different in mind to cause an explosion, calling for an "Or" instead of an "And" to start the last line.

Could you explain the 5th line? That particular line had me thinking instead:

I would propose a solution: using the topics "poll" to indicate whether a riddle has been solved. After the OP has gotten an acceptable solution, when he/she posts to confirm that the correct answer has been found, he/she also uses the box at the top of the editing panel titled "Poll Options". The topic starter would click on "Manage this topic's poll" Then click "Add poll question" and type "Riddle has been solved" Then click "Add poll choice" and type "See post #x" (Martini let me play around with the polling feature in a test thread in "Others" (Thanks, Martini!) and it's necessary to have at least one question and one choice for the poll to show up, so follow that procedure precisely.) That would also mean that solved riddles would show up with a purple folder in the index. You guys think this is a good idea? Should we start implementing it?

To public places I depart Wherever the people assemble My cheerful face hides chilly heart And none in the multitude tremble I'm bankrolled by these fools, my prey Commanded, I drop off the payload Beware, for this I truly say You'll harvest the fruitage that I've sowed So are you shaking? Feel secure? The question's not just academic Anon, explosion you'll endure Or suffer the latest pandemic

Yeah, chicory has this one

The story's taken off the shelf It's time to perform, so I'm on it My stomach twists upon itself So dizzying, maybe I'll vomit The spotlight's on, my shadow's cast A message to those now assembled Some warm-up gags I rush through fast (Sure hoping I haven't now trembled) And then in earnest start my act Perfection without any flaws The crowd, they didn't much react I drew not a clap of applause What's more, I hear I've gotten tapped I stop in my tracks and I'm spewing My job's not lost, though; I'm not scrapped Thank God, this is not my undoing

This seems reasonably straightforward, at least for the case of language (more profound implications of how we see the world might not be fully addressed though). You're perfectly fine defining a new word to be whatever you want, even if the definition might be silly. I could define a number called umpteen as the sum of the natural logs of the numbers 1-10. It's well defined, but much less useful than say pi or e as far as practical applications. You could say that grue and bleen are the same way. They might be defined, but from a practical standpoint, they're probably pretty useless if colors won't be changing in 2012. But similarly, the colors that we have now would be less useful if everything were like a chameleon and changing colors all the time, or if everything were reflective like a mirror without an intrinsic color. And of course if photons emitted from a source didn't have characteristic measurable distributions of frequencies that a scientist might find interesting, then the concept might not exist at all. So we've generally got names for objects and phenomena that we see and interact with, but none for stuff we don't observe or guess at the existence of, simply because such names wouldn't be useful. Whether a word is used or not depends not on how "correct" it is, but on how useful it is. The usefulness of using grue and bleen instead of blue and green depends on whether or not you think that a color change is going to happen at the apocalypse; if you anticipate that it will, then it's perfectly reasonable to use those colors. The only difference between the two peoples' views in the OP is whether they anticipate that the definition would be useful.

The more I thought about it, the more I decided that I don't really need to proscribe a set formula for how a denomination should adapt to the times. The denominations can each find their own ways, or else get overtaken by new denominations that are better suited to the times. I've gone ahead and compiled all the stuff to start a new thread, and since this is big I'll give everyone a few days to look it over and point out things that may need to be added and make revisions before posting it (mostly because of the parables, but since they'll form the basis of the faith it's important to scrutinize them and get them right). And also to get an updated parable of the monk added if you want. In this thread we took on the question: given the nearly universal appearance of religions across all societies, what is the best way to fill the apparent need that people have for religion with something that would have the best possible overall impact on humanity? The OP pointed out that going without a religion creates the potential for cults to sprout in the vacuum, and we don't want another Jonestown or militant faith springing up. So here's what we came up with after >200 posts of everything from rational debates to food fights to kumbaya moments. Now we'd like some fresh perspectives on what we've got so far: Whether it would accomplish its goals. Whether important additions need to be made to better guide people through their lives or act as safeguards. Whether there are better ways of describing the origins of Phronism than our current story of a meeting of seven great religious minds (Diotima of Mantinea who taught Socrates, Zoroaster the prophet of Zoroastrianism, Confucius, Gautama Buddha, Laozi who founded Taoism, Mahavira of Jainism, and a person known as the "Seventh Shepherd" who some speculate to have been the prophet Malachi). And speculation as to what would happen if such a beast were released into the world (preferably more than just a "it wouldn't catch on" – or if so then point out things that it would need, aside from a bigger "Bible" which we currently only have the skeleton of).

Finally got internet access sorted out, thank the Essence. I just realized I never put anything in any of the parables yet about there not being an omnipotent, omniscient God. I'll add a line to the final speech from the Seventh Shepherd: "Likewise, do not accept teachings about an omnipotent, omniscient God, for such beliefs beget a mind geared for servitude rather than questioning and understanding the motives and consequences of your actions." Everything seems almost ready for posting on a new thread. For the parable of the monk, we had kicked around a few ideas on what we should get across in it in posts 200-204, do you think a final version is starting to gel? Also, I'd still like to put together a story about how a denomination changes its ways: lots of interesting points could come up, not least of which is how change proposed by an individual would play out in a faith that puts so much emphasis on listening to others: From the point of view of the person proposing a change, everyone else would be thinking along the old established lines when the change in first proposed, so the person proposing change might feel like they're not being a very good Phronist. But getting pen to paper on such a story has been tougher than writing parables. I might just have to forgo it.

This is such a great riddle, as plainglazed pointed out, and I'd really love to find the answer! intern121 got this one! Thanks for the compliments, and I hope the answer is satisfying.

Sorry, SNAFU with the internet service I thought I was going to have when I got here. The interpretation of the last stanza is exactly what I had in mind (but not the first and second)

Time for another hint?

No need for research, this is a common thing with a metaphorical description. Interesting answer though. My internet access may be spotty while I'm moving, my apologies in advance if I can't check in too often.

It could fit with much of the riddle, but I don't see the fit with the green or brown grass clue Hrm? I don't see the connection... or how the last two lines would work

Good point: Buddhist karma never applied to groups of people, so the twist at the end does make it more Confucian. Since I now understand that this nutshell summary of Phronism is something we're designing as a sort of "Phronism pamphlet" for a modern audience, I would invoke George Carlin (the honorary Eighth Shepherd) to propose some modifications to cut it down to the real core principles, keeping it very succinct yet with a degree of spirituality and mysticism. But please tell me if I've cut out anything important to get across in the first introduction. Phronism is the pursuit of a noble course in life through prudent actions. It uses the concept of "the Essence" that drives the flow of events – a representation merging everything from the most basic laws of physics to the rules of behavior for intelligent people interacting within complex societies. The Essence includes science and extends beyond it, binding humans with the great mysteries of life and existence currently beyond understanding. Phronism encourages a vigorous pursuit of understanding the Essence through rational thought and imaginative intellect while simultaneously celebrating its sheer awe-inspiring depth and complexity, with the ultimate goal of using this knowledge to "harmonize" with the Essence: to act in ways that promote a safe, prosperous, and caring society. Understanding this Essence and becoming one with it is our primary mantra. Phronism currently finds no evidence for afterlife (survival of consciousness after death), but instead anticipates a reconnection with the eternal Essence in ways that are determined by the legacy of our actions throughout life. We believe in no infallible or omnipotent gods, and avoid indulging in prayer, sacrifices, or other forms of worship that might distract from taking action toward useful ends. We instead believe that people's acts shape the Essence, manifesting itself in our daily lives by a karma-like reciprocity. We espouse harmonizing with the Essence by following the idealized "golden rule": "Do unto others what will benefit them most." Phronism itself flows as does the Essence, constantly adapting to the sensibilities of the times and scientific and social advancement. It has a fluid, open structure that naturally engenders its own evolution: it has (*limited or no... did we ever say there needs to be any at all?*) central leadership and, through a system of freely evolving, cross-fertilizing and self-correcting "denominations", mechanisms to prevent corruption, infighting, extremism or crusadism. It gives total freedom to its members to change within and out of the system. It appreciates the insights and views not only of members but of any person with sound reasoning and noble intentions. It is open to new ideas and opens its member's minds to think about everything around them and to learn more about themselves, their friends and the universe. It re-affirms the original meaning an purpose of religion: to re-connect the people with one another and with every level of reality from the parochial to the Essence. It extends beyond religion to being a true World Philosophy.

Oooh, ok, thanks. I try to write riddles so that there's just one answer that's clearly "best" and like to see the thought process behind getting logical ones that I didn't have in mind; helps me with debugging future riddles. And sometimes I get a real treat like the one plainglazed got to I'm not a crazy army commander. The intended answer still needs to be found though.

The cloud, like Aeron's rain answer, seems like it could fit all the clues but doesn't really explain the well at the end.