[Guest]

Unrealty was a student of Prof. Templeton in the Redrum University. In one of the

Philosophy lecture, the professor was speaking on The Problem Science has

with GOD, the ALMIGHTY. He asked Unrealty to stand and . . .

Professor : You are Christian, aren't you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor : So, you Believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD Good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?

Student : Yes.

Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.

Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill.

But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent )

Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella.

Is GOD Good?

Student : Yes.

Professor : Is Satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor : Where does Satan come from ?

Student : From . . . GOD . . .

Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?

Student : Yes.

Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor : So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer)

Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?

All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor : So, who Created them ?

(Student had no answer)

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.

Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD?

Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol,

Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.

Professor : Yes, Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?

Professor : Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?

Professor : Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn't.

(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat,

a Little Heat or No Heat.

But we don't have anything called Cold.

We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as Cold.

Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.

We cannot Measure Cold.

Heat is Energy.

Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.

(There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )

Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?

Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?

Student : You're wrong again, sir.

Darkness is the Absence of Something

You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . . .

But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it?

In reality, Darkness isn't.

If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?

Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.

Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.

You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD.

You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.

It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that

Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing.

Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?

Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and

Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavour,

Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?

Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?

(The Class was in Uproar )

Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?

(The Class broke out into Laughter )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .

No one appears to have done so.

So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol,

Science says that You have No Brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir?

(The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)

Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.

Student : That is it sir . . . Exactly !

The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.

That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.

[Guest]

WOW! That's one smart kid...poor teacher! :lol:

[Izzy]

LMAO at Unreality arguing for God.

[Guest]

I'm with Izzy, it puts a hilarious spin on having UR be a student of faith and God ...

[Guest]

Brave student. The teacher kind of asked for it though- served him right.

[Guest]

Brave student. The teacher kind of asked for it though- served him right.

Just a bit. And Welcome to the DEN. The longer you're here (and we hope you stay) you'll come to realize that, along with others, unreality is one of our resident Atheists. Which is what makes this a joke.

[unreality]

Haha Too bad I can rip that student's arguments to shreds (evolution has lots of empirical evidence, so do brains ;D Thoughts are explained very well, and so is electricity and magnetism. But any evidence for god? None )

But I won't because apparently he's me hehe

[Yoruichi-san]

Haha Too bad I can rip that student's arguments to shreds (evolution has lots of empirical evidence, so do brains ;D Thoughts are explained very well, and so is electricity and magnetism. But any evidence for god? None )

But I won't because apparently he's me hehe

No, don't rip the argument to shreds...I can use it to back up so many other claims...such as how I'm actually an uber-powerful Magical Knight who pilots a giant rune-god robot and fights alien invaders...but then I have my Cleaners go back and erase any trace of the events from history and memories...it's better for humans not to know about the dire battle for the future of humanity that's going on...it would cause chaos...so you'll just have to have faith in your MK Protecters ;P

[Guest]

No, don't rip the argument to shreds...I can use it to back up so many other claims...such as how I'm actually an uber-powerful Magical Knight who pilots a giant rune-god robot and fights alien invaders...but then I have my Cleaners go back and erase any trace of the events from history and memories...it's better for humans not to know about the dire battle for the future of humanity that's going on...it would cause chaos...so you'll just have to have faith in your MK Protecters ;P

What is MK Protecters?

[Guest]

What is MK Protecters?

I suspect MK is "Magical Knight", of which Yoruichi-san is one..

[Guest]

LMAO at Unreality arguing for God.

I thought it would be really funny for UR to take the students role and argue for GOD for a change What do you think Slick and PG :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Panther]

LOL

[peace*out]

Wow........

That's hilarious, especially since its unreality arguing for god.......

[Guest]

Haha Too bad I can rip that student's arguments to shreds (evolution has lots of empirical evidence, so do brains ;D Thoughts are explained very well, and so is electricity and magnetism. But any evidence for god? None )

But I won't because apparently he's me hehe

UR i have this feeling that you could tear up your own argument and win

[Mekal]

evolution has lots of empirical evidence, so do brains ;D Thoughts are explained very well, and so is electricity and magnetism. But any evidence for god? None

Great one BL

But I am in the mood for an argument...

People say that Evolution has lots of evidence, but do we KNOW it is true? The reality of God has evidence, but we don't KNOW it's true either...

how did we all come to be? why is it that there is no begining? Every thing in the world contains evidence of God. Why do trees grow in the way they do? Why is it that Birds fly in a V? Why do humans find the need for company? We can not find an answer to anything. Why does 2+2=4? well it is because if you take 2 things and put them with 2 more things, we get four? but why is it called four? because that is what people call it. Why do they call it that? Who knows... Everything comes down to God. No, we do not know if he is real... but nor we do know if he is not. That is why you may not believe in God and I might.

Any response?

That paragraph is SO going on my Sig...

[unreality]

[ignore]

Edited October 19, 2008 by unreality

[unreality]

Great one BL

But I am in the mood for an argument...

People say that Evolution has lots of evidence, but do we KNOW it is true?

What do you mean, how do we know? There's so much evidence it would fill a warehouse with books and tanks and bottles and petri dishes. If you're implying that our entire perceptions are altered in a way that "nothing is true" and "nothing is real" then nothing would be real, including evolution (and including your god). Rene Descartes tackled this problem, and concluded that the outside world exists because sensations come to him without him thinking of producing them.... and if it doesn't, it's all our brains know, and is very consistent, so it's "real" to us either way. And in this world, evolution is very very real, undeniably in fact, unless you are going to shut out your mind to the evidence in favor of outdated beliefs

The reality of God has evidence

Like what? I can say the same thing about Zeus, and back it up just as well. Probably better. But evolution is different, in that the evidence is actually valid

, but we don't KNOW it's true either...

how did we all come to be? why is it that there is no begining?

Those are big questions, that have been tackled for many many years. You know that. We all know that. There are zillions of theories, I'm not going to recount all of them. But the fact that nobody has any definite answer doesn't suddenly make your own answer right

Every thing in the world contains evidence of God.

lulz. What about Zeus or Buddha? And why is a god needed to explain this stuff (in the following quote)? It's not.

Why do trees grow in the way they do?

Closer to the sun = more energy. Evolution There are a lot more reasons too (all evolutionary), but I suspect your question was theoretical and you don't actually want to know. If you do, it's very logical.... if a true grew in some other direction or in a completely different manner, due to mutations, combined chromosomes from mating, etc, it would die out, and the "victorious genes" would prevail onward. Evolution is very simple, and not random at all. Trees are only the way they are because that's the type of shape and growth that the conditions favor(ed). If something different had happened zillions of years ago perhaps, they would look completely different and we would wonder why they were like that (if we existed, that is)

Why is it that Birds fly in a V?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...18144214AAc2Dd6

This really has no relevance to anything religion-related lol Though I might add that it's an instinct from evolution. If you think that evolution doesn't exist, birds shouldn't fly in a V-shape at all. But they do. (Or you could say "well Zeus wanted them to fly in a V-shape, that's why they do"... that's when the question WHY is appropriate ;D)

Why do humans find the need for company?

basic psychological behavior, evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago, mostly in Africa but partly in groups that had migrated to Asian areas. Sticking in groups increases chance of survival (think herds of zebras; it's the same thing) and of course more things spring from there, emotions and whatnot springload off of it, etc

We can not find an answer to anything.

And your point is? Are you suggesting that if we can't figure something out, we should give up and say "oh well that's how Zeus wants it to be. We can't figure something out, so no reason to even try anymore, it's just Zeus's whim or Zeus's Big Plan"? I don't think so, and I hope that's not your mentality, cuz it's a sucky one to have. It's actually called 'God of the Gaps' and a typical apologist behavior... ie, "You scientist morons don't know why seeds are arranged in pentagons within an apple core? THAT MUST BE EVIDENCE FOR GOD!!!"

That was just random example off the top of my head, we do know why apple seeds are arranged in pentagons, it has to do with the Golden Ratio and the Fibonacci Numbers and their recurrence in nature (something which is very fascinating, and also explainable, if you were going to jump on the God of the Gaps bandwagon again ;D)

Why does 2+2=4? well it is because if you take 2 things and put them with 2 more things, we get four? but why is it called four? because that is what people call it. Why do they call it that? Who knows...

I agree. Words are words, and math is math - nature is built upon math, though it's mysterious as to whether math is manmade, naturemade, or a mix of both. Clearly one thing and one thing make two things, so I would say that nature definitely plays a role here

Everything comes down to God.

uh, why? Cuz 2+2=4? If 2+2=5, everything would be different, and 5 would be the new 4. Maybe 4 would be 17 and 17 would be 1548126 and 1548126 would be 5. Does it really matter? They're just names

Your reasoning for "everything comes down to god" is fallacious, and probably based on the Argument from Design. It goes something like this:

'You see a beautiful, intricate sand castle on the beach. Would you expect it to be a product of sea and sand caused by the random processes of nature? No, you would expect it to have been made by a person. Now look at the world. Someone had to design the universe. It was Zeus'

First, jumping from "someone had to do it" to "it must've been Zeus" is fallacious in its own right, but let's ignore that and move to the larger point:

At first this seems appealing, but in fact almost all Christian apologists have moved away from it because of its flaw that is realized when you think about it for... a couple of a seconds. Basically it boils down to: "if every complex, beautiful, intricate thing has to be created by a higher-leveled intelligent entity (by the theist's own definition), then Zeus must be created by a higher-level entity too. And that entity must be created by a higher entity, and so on and so forth."

It doesn't disprove Zeus, but it entirely blows to shreds your argument for his existence, unless you want to adjust your beliefs to incorporate an infinite ladder of Zeuses, stretching on back forever. But then why not have a universe with no beginning? Much simpler.

And the 'sand castle' analogy can be applied to life on earth, however what is misunderstood is that evolution actually will produce that 'sand castle' over a long period of time (not a literal 'sand castle', but some complex organism or whatever). In life, everything you see around you starts out simple and grows, evolves. Even you, from the moment of your conception to your cell growth and birth, etc. Everything starts out simple and grows to be very very complex. That's how we have eyes. That's how we have brains and arms that can build sand castles. That's why nature is full of metaphorical 'sand castles'. Complexity is an emergent pattern

quote:

No, we do not know if he is real... but nor we do know if he is not. That is why you may not believe in God and I might.

unquote

I agree. The fact that it cannot be proven either way makes it frustrating to show truth to people who have been blinded by conformity or parentage or what have you.

However neither can it be proven that I have an invisible, undetectable dragon in my garage

quote:

That paragraph is SO going on my Sig...

unquote

My suggestion: don't put it in your sig You will probably get unwarranted PMs from various atheists picking holes in your statements and showing you all of your logical fallacies and where your reasoning falters

note: this may get deleted by Martini, so I coped it in case you want to move to the religious debate

[akaslickster]

I thought it would be really funny for UR to take the students role and argue for GOD for a change What do you think Slick and PG

Well, I think she will appreciate it. I may never know the truth. People make a religion out of non-religiousness. It was funny.

[Guest]

Well, I think she will appreciate it. I may never know the truth. People make a religion out of non-religiousness. It was funny.

I thinkWe should start our own religion BrainDenzianity

edit: typo

Edited October 19, 2008 by Impervious

[unreality]

Mekal: I'm not that interested in starting a debate with you, to be honest. Mostly because we're Brainden buds, and it would be dumb to ruin that We can agree to disagree. I was riled up before, and even sent a PM to my atheist buddies (hehe ;D), though I'm riled down now

[Guest]

Mekal: I'm not that interested in starting a debate with you, to be honest. Mostly because we're Brainden buds, and it would be dumb to ruin that We can agree to disagree. I was riled up before, and even sent a PM to my atheist buddies (hehe ;D), though I'm riled down now

UR you crack me up.

[Mekal]

What do you mean, how do we know? There's so much evidence it would fill a warehouse with books and tanks and bottles and petri dishes. If you're implying that our entire perceptions are altered in a way that "nothing is true" and "nothing is real" then nothing would be real, including evolution (and including your god). Rene Descartes tackled this problem, and concluded that the outside world exists because sensations come to him without him thinking of producing them.... and if it doesn't, it's all our brains know, and is very consistent, so it's "real" to us either way. And in this world, evolution is very very real, undeniably in fact, unless you are going to shut out your mind to the evidence in favor of outdated beliefs

Like what? I can say the same thing about Zeus, and back it up just as well. Probably better. But evolution is different, in that the evidence is actually valid

Those are big questions, that have been tackled for many many years. You know that. We all know that. There are zillions of theories, I'm not going to recount all of them. But the fact that nobody has any definite answer doesn't suddenly make your own answer right

lulz. What about Zeus or Buddha? And why is a god needed to explain this stuff (in the following quote)? It's not.

Closer to the sun = more energy. Evolution There are a lot more reasons too (all evolutionary), but I suspect your question was theoretical and you don't actually want to know. If you do, it's very logical.... if a true grew in some other direction or in a completely different manner, due to mutations, combined chromosomes from mating, etc, it would die out, and the "victorious genes" would prevail onward. Evolution is very simple, and not random at all. Trees are only the way they are because that's the type of shape and growth that the conditions favor(ed). If something different had happened zillions of years ago perhaps, they would look completely different and we would wonder why they were like that (if we existed, that is)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...18144214AAc2Dd6

This really has no relevance to anything religion-related lol Though I might add that it's an instinct from evolution. If you think that evolution doesn't exist, birds shouldn't fly in a V-shape at all. But they do. (Or you could say "well Zeus wanted them to fly in a V-shape, that's why they do"... that's when the question WHY is appropriate ;D)

basic psychological behavior, evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago, mostly in Africa but partly in groups that had migrated to Asian areas. Sticking in groups increases chance of survival (think herds of zebras; it's the same thing) and of course more things spring from there, emotions and whatnot springload off of it, etc

And your point is? Are you suggesting that if we can't figure something out, we should give up and say "oh well that's how Zeus wants it to be. We can't figure something out, so no reason to even try anymore, it's just Zeus's whim or Zeus's Big Plan"? I don't think so, and I hope that's not your mentality, cuz it's a sucky one to have. It's actually called 'God of the Gaps' and a typical apologist behavior... ie, "You scientist morons don't know why seeds are arranged in pentagons within an apple core? THAT MUST BE EVIDENCE FOR GOD!!!"

That was just random example off the top of my head, we do know why apple seeds are arranged in pentagons, it has to do with the Golden Ratio and the Fibonacci Numbers and their recurrence in nature (something which is very fascinating, and also explainable, if you were going to jump on the God of the Gaps bandwagon again ;D)

I agree. Words are words, and math is math - nature is built upon math, though it's mysterious as to whether math is manmade, naturemade, or a mix of both. Clearly one thing and one thing make two things, so I would say that nature definitely plays a role here

uh, why? Cuz 2+2=4? If 2+2=5, everything would be different, and 5 would be the new 4. Maybe 4 would be 17 and 17 would be 1548126 and 1548126 would be 5. Does it really matter? They're just names

Your reasoning for "everything comes down to god" is fallacious, and probably based on the Argument from Design. It goes something like this:

'You see a beautiful, intricate sand castle on the beach. Would you expect it to be a product of sea and sand caused by the random processes of nature? No, you would expect it to have been made by a person. Now look at the world. Someone had to design the universe. It was Zeus'

First, jumping from "someone had to do it" to "it must've been Zeus" is fallacious in its own right, but let's ignore that and move to the larger point:

At first this seems appealing, but in fact almost all Christian apologists have moved away from it because of its flaw that is realized when you think about it for... a couple of a seconds. Basically it boils down to: "if every complex, beautiful, intricate thing has to be created by a higher-leveled intelligent entity (by the theist's own definition), then Zeus must be created by a higher-level entity too. And that entity must be created by a higher entity, and so on and so forth."

It doesn't disprove Zeus, but it entirely blows to shreds your argument for his existence, unless you want to adjust your beliefs to incorporate an infinite ladder of Zeuses, stretching on back forever. But then why not have a universe with no beginning? Much simpler.

And the 'sand castle' analogy can be applied to life on earth, however what is misunderstood is that evolution actually will produce that 'sand castle' over a long period of time (not a literal 'sand castle', but some complex organism or whatever). In life, everything you see around you starts out simple and grows, evolves. Even you, from the moment of your conception to your cell growth and birth, etc. Everything starts out simple and grows to be very very complex. That's how we have eyes. That's how we have brains and arms that can build sand castles. That's why nature is full of metaphorical 'sand castles'. Complexity is an emergent pattern

quote:

No, we do not know if he is real... but nor we do know if he is not. That is why you may not believe in God and I might.

unquote

I agree. The fact that it cannot be proven either way makes it frustrating to show truth to people who have been blinded by conformity or parentage or what have you.

However neither can it be proven that I have an invisible, undetectable dragon in my garage

quote:

That paragraph is SO going on my Sig...

unquote

My suggestion: don't put it in your sig You will probably get unwarranted PMs from various atheists picking holes in your statements and showing you all of your logical fallacies and where your reasoning falters

note: this may get deleted by Martini, so I coped it in case you want to move to the religious debate

you didn't answer my question though... my question asked why? you provided answers, but in your answers there are more questions... Basicly i am saying that nomatter what, there will still be things that we can not explain. Have you ever noticed how perfect the world is? i mean, it is so balenced... what would happen if trees didn't recycle oxygen?

[unreality]

Exactly! That's the beauty and awe of nature that we both share... we just look at it in different ways, which is fine. You attribute a higher power and order to explain it, while I look "from the bottom up", I guess you could say. Of course there is questions. There is always more questions, and that's the beauty of the universe. No matter what route you take, there is more questions... even with a god. Where did the god come from? What are they and what are they made of? No matter what angle you view an object from, there's always a side you're not seeing ;D

I, for one, love questions, more so than answers even. Questions give us the opportunity to explore more about our world, while answers have a decidingly finality to them. In fact, if you find one solid answer to anything in nature that doesn't spring more questions, you're doing something wrong. Nothing should, and can, explain everything

As for why trees recycle oxygen, did you know that it's actually the other way around. We only use oxygen because it's abundance. Oxygen is actually a WASTE product, a waste product of plants. Yet we evolved to survive with it because that's what we had at the time ;D (we as in tiny organisms). It's like bacteria that eat our fecal matter What would happen to THEM if we stopped sh*tting? ;D

[Guest]

You guys can discuss religion in the appropriate forum.

Ben Law, don't use members of this site as characters in your "jokes".