[unreality]

It's fast approaching! Discuss, vote, etc

Edited September 14, 2008 by unreality

[Guest]

One thing I've noticed is that you can spin numbers any way you want and make it sound either very good or very bad, depending on your aim....

Changing the subject, what do you guys think of this 'economic bailout' plan? The $700 billion one, in case there's some ambiguity

I will preclude this with a statement that I am no economic expert, but looking at the state of things, I don't think that such expertise is necessarily required in order to make a valid conclusion on the subject. Anyway a lot of the "experts" never saw this coming (or at the very least stuffed their heads in the sand in order to protect their cherished beliefs.)

Everything I've read about the plan says that it's a disaster. Giving out $700 billion with no strings attached is ridiculous. That's all taxpayer money (that we don't actually have and will be borrowing from China as it is. ) If we're investing in these Wall Street companies, we ought to be getting a piece of the benefits. Buying into these firms with a hope to auction off the investments is not a sound business practice (if this meltdown is any indication, ) and it seems reasonable that if the taxpayers are going to "rescue" these deregulated investment giants, they we should be getting some of the shares in the business too.

I would imagine that some here would find the notion of the government owning part (or most) of a corporation to be galling, but that's essentially what's already been happening with Lehman Bros., Merrill Lynch and AIG (except for the part about the taxpayers getting the shares that they should have. <_< ) Certainly for AIG, we practically nationalized it and if the firm ever gets its head above water again, it has very little incentive (and certainly no requirement) to give the money it got from the government back to the taxpayers.

As for the people blaming regulation for this crisis, I have a few questions: when was the last time we saw a financial collapse of this magnitude? The obvious answer that I see is the Great Depression. When were Great Depression era regulations repealed? In 1999, courtesy of Phil Gramm and the Clinton Treasury (and the White House in general.) When did the companies start to go under? During 2000 and 2001, Enron and WorldCom both went under in large, public scandals. Since then there have been other minor failures and with more bills passing through the Congress and the Bush White House permitting further deregulation, it's little surprise that things have fallen out the way that they have. People may try to argue to the contrary, but if the Glass-Steagall Act (signed into law in 1933) was still in operation (part of the deregulation of 1999,) many of the loans that were offered that ended up bringing these firms to their knees would not have even been legal (if they are now (which they shouldn't have been. <_< ))

That's my two cents...er, dollars on the issue.

Also, I never watch FOX sNews since it's rarely "fair" or "balanced."

(And that's not a typo. )

[Guest]

McCain is by far the best man for the job, he also has run a far cleaner race choosing not to be involved in most of the ignorant actions of the other 2. I understand that it is time consuming to look up each persons history but how can any american make a intelligent vote with only the persons word, if you come to my store and I tell you how honest I am only to sell you something that did not hold up and then refused to refund your money, would you ever do business with me again? Likewise the same with politicians, which is why I made the Hitler statement, talk is cheap it means nothing it is your track record that counts, Obama has told so many lies he forgets what he says, this guy tried to play the race card and it backfired in his face. He is pathetic a poor excuse for an American citizen let alone someone who WANTS TO RUN THIS COUNTRY.

He has convinced himself that is something special because he was raised by a white woman many black children are raised by white families, had he or his stupid staff bothered to do some homework they would have found that more white people adopt black children from tired world countries than any other group.

But I do not see him as some savior for the masses in any way that office is not about color or women ’s rights it is about making this country a force in the world like it used to be.

The dollar is at the bottom in so many countries, people are so stupid they don't realize that if you do not FIGHT FOR FREEDOM it will be TAKEN AWAY, there will ALWAYS be some power crazed maniac somewhere who thinks they have the right to control you.

Any person who comes to this country and was born in this country and reaps the reward for doing so better be ready to fight for the freedom that OUR FOREFATHERS Fought and died for, and moron who does not believe had better get a clue before it is too late, I hate war everyone hates war BUT it is a terrible fact of life and has always been so since the beginning of man.

i just saw their TV ads in pollclash and its getting warmer this time. well you can see the TV ads in http://pollclash.com

[itachi-san]

Hmm wondering....

How many of you get your news from FOX?

who could you possibly be referring to?

sorry to burst the liberal bubble you've got goin' but it's my opinion that the 24 hour news networks should be eliminated because of all the harm they do - but that would be against the 1st amendment of course, so we just have to hope that they don't brainwash too many people.

I get mainstream news from: cnn

Liberal from: democracynow

and conservative from: drudgereport

...and a bunch of other sites, but I definitely like to hear as many sides as I can (and then make my own version of the truth)

Well, it seems my input gets mostly ignored here because of the liberal majority (see posts 95 [the last part], 96 and then 98...). That's ok, but I couldn't leave CP hangin' on believing I was some avid Foxnews junkie . The funny thing to me is that I don't even like the Republicans. Either way this election goes I will be neither happy nor sad. It's just the continuation of a failed state of governance no matter who wins office.

[Guest]

who could you possibly be referring to?

sorry to burst the liberal bubble you've got goin' but it's my opinion that the 24 hour news networks should be eliminated because of all the harm they do - but that would be against the 1st amendment of course, so we just have to hope that they don't brainwash too many people.

I get mainstream news from: cnn

Liberal from: democracynow

and conservative from: drudgereport

...and a bunch of other sites, but I definitely like to hear as many sides as I can (and then make my own version of the truth)

Well, it seems my input gets mostly ignored here because of the liberal majority (see posts 95 [the last part], 96 and then 98...). That's ok, but I couldn't leave CP hangin' on believing I was some avid Foxnews junkie . The funny thing to me is that I don't even like the Republicans. Either way this election goes I will be neither happy nor sad. It's just the continuation of a failed state of governance no matter who wins office.

I agree that the general state of journalism has completely collapsed with the onset of 24-hour cable news networks. Journalism used to be viewed (for the most part) as a service to the populace, but now it's almost completely owned by a handful of William Randolph Hearsts who aren't all that interested in muckracking and investigative reports since those require actual work and research. In the meantime, the latest fluff piece floating around will get just as much in the ratings (if not more ) and it requires almost no work to grab it and run with it for hours. The news "industry" (that's what it is now... <_< ) is not interested in news so much as infotainment, which is not the same thing in any way shape or form and I'm not sure of a way to cut through the fog other than to take everything with a grain of salt and make your own judgments (which unfortunately takes more individual effort, so many people give up on that in lieu of the much simpler process turning on the TV. )

[Guest]

Like I said, executive experience does not have to be the "defining feature" of the candidate. I've already said Bush was a failure and he actually did a poor job in his executive experience prior to his Presidency, mostly in the businesses he ran. Palin has high approval ratings and has done well in her ventures. Again, I can't see how this is anything but a positive for her.

Well, i know i am a new member, and this is an older post, but honestly i agree with you in almost everything except President Bush. He was actually not a failure because when he had a republican congress he was fine, but when the democrats were in congress they destroyed the economy and everyone blamed President Bush. I don't want to make a long post, but i like to watch the history channel and i always saw a commerical for a show called taking the hill and it was about DEMOCRATS taking congress and senate almost 2 years ago, (still in office now) and our economy went down from there. On President Bush's foreign issues, the war would have gone a lot smoother if the military got the appropiate ammount of troops and spending for the war in the begining. Afghanistan was a success, but the congress would not allow enough troops, nor spending for Iraq. In the end, President Bush is hated because of the media corruption as said before in earlier posts.

[Guest]

Hmm wondering....

How many of you get your news from FOX?

FOX news is actually the news station closest to the middle, sure it does lean to the right more, but atleast they do not put up horrible looking pictures of Republicans. They say the straight facts, the media has brainwashed you and that is why you hate FOX news

[Guest]

I think dave letterman says it best.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/09/25/icym...avid-letterman/

[Guest]

I think McCain is opting out of the debate because he has had a series of strokes.

Palin as Pres scares me!

[Guest]

FOX news is actually the news station closest to the middle, sure it does lean to the right more, but atleast they do not put up horrible looking pictures of Republicans. They say the straight facts, the media has brainwashed you and that is why you hate FOX news

What media do you refer to? NPR? New Zealand herald, financial times,or London Gaurdian? Honey, I am not brainwashed.....

I am actually reading it all.

McCain and palin are too scared to debate. Why else would she not be interviewed?

Katie Couric even reamed her.

[Guest]

Okay, I'm a huge Palin Supporter, but this is a little over the top: A-MAZE-ING PALIN!

Edited September 26, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[unreality]

haha Classic

[itachi-san]

Okay, I'm a huge Palin Supporter, but this is a little over the top: A-MAZE-ING PALIN!

too bad for her that aliens can't vote - all kinds of puns intended

[unreality]

Is she for immigration?

[itachi-san]

What media do you refer to? NPR? New Zealand herald, financial times,or London Gaurdian? Honey, I am not brainwashed.....

I am actually reading it all.

McCain and palin are too scared to debate. Why else would she not be interviewed?

Katie Couric even reamed her.

Well, in McCain's defense he has been asking for more debates up until this economic crisis. I think he did use it as a political ploy which I thought was silly, but he is certainly not scared to debate. He'll be on tonight so check it out

Palin though... I can't believe she hasn't studied up on McCain's Senate experience. I agree with you on this one. Even though it was a semi-gotcha question by Couric, Palin should definitely have known what other reforms McCain has pushed in the Senate. Her lack of knowledge about her running mate is unacceptable to me.

Speaking of VPs: is Biden insane? I mean seriously, this is nuts... I'll grant these candidates that they're tired and make a few slipups when speaking, but in my most exhausted state I would never think that FDR was president in 1929, let alone that TV even existed then... seriously, can I just vote "no confidence".

[Guest]

Is she for immigration?

Don't recall...I know she's anti-stem cell research so I'm not too fond of her...even if she is hot and looks like tina fey's sister.

[unreality]

Did you hear the comment she made about her "foreign experience"? She said she had foreign policy knowledge 'cuz Alaska is next to Russia'

haha they parodied that so funnily on SNL

[unreality]

Don't recall...I know she's anti-stem cell research so I'm not too fond of her...even if she is hot and looks like tina fey's sister.

anti-stem-cell? WTF!

[itachi-san]

Did you hear the comment she made about her "foreign experience"? She said she had foreign policy knowledge 'cuz Alaska is next to Russia'

haha they parodied that so funnily on SNL

yeah, that was bad. She should have just said that she has none. Just tell the truth. I think she is anti-stem cell like most Republicans which is bad and she would probably say that she is for legal immigration and against sanctuary cities, but I'm not certain.

[Guest]

anti-stem-cell? WTF!

Yeah, anit-stem cell. can you believe that?

My best friend is a bio-engineering major and he was telling me that that research is the key to find the cure for cancer amongst other things.

[unreality]

It's not unethical, even by religious standards. The stem cells are already there. If we don't use them for research, they'll be thrown out. And the research saves lives and incites medical breakthroughs!!!

Edited September 26, 2008 by unreality

[Guest]

As I'm reading this about the stem cells, a thought occurred to me. She has a baby right? I wonder if she saved the cord blood aka stem cells? She could certainly afford the cost.

[itachi-san]

It's not unethical, even by religious standards. The stem cells are already there. If we don't use them for research, they'll be thrown out. And the research saves lives and incites medical breakthroughs!!!

A friend of mine works with stem cells. He's basically a genius doctor/mad scientist. He has to go on Native American Reservations to do certain research because it's unlawful in the States... so it's basically unlawful to save lives without hurting lives here. It's madness.

[unreality]

Yeah it's ridiculous...

[Guest]

Is anybody watching the debate? Good grief, I'm terrified that Obama might actually have a chance at getting elected. His pretty face and smooth manner are somehow blinding people from recognizing that the man has no business holding a place of high office. He speaks of in terms of ideas with no actual original thoughts whereas McCain speaks with solid information and experience. I watched the debate trying to be as unbiased and as open as possible - wanting to understand Obama's positions on the issues - but it was as clear as day that Obama really doesn't have enough knowledge about the issues to make a challenging debate. Hands down, McCain is just infinitely more qualified to lead our country.

Edit: Don't hurt me, CP!!

Edited September 27, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[Guest]

i think that they both have some good points if i had my way though i would put mccain for foreign policy and obama domestic policy. thats just me though.