[unreality]

It's fast approaching! Discuss, vote, etc

Edited September 14, 2008 by unreality

[Guest]

I am 12 but if I was old ebough I would vote for mccain I somtime watch the debates with my parents

[Guest]

Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever. It's still overseas, it's still dangerous, and it's still pointless. We're wasting American lives for the Middle Easterners that don't even want us there. But that's just my personal opinion... obviously everyone in every group has opposing views on this (even within the military, or maybe most strongly so there). I'm just saying that Obama has a timetabled pullout plan, while McCain wants to stay indefinitely until we "win". Does anybody think that's actually possible? What does "win" mean anybody? Who defines win? After the Iraq War is over, there will still be terrorism in the world, there will still be hatred against the US in the Middle East. Terrorism doesn't follow the "chop off the snake's head" analogy - it's more like a hydra than a snake - if you chop off a hydra's head, two more grow in its place.

The one big difference between the fight in Iraq and Afghanistan is that there are NATO forces in Afghanistan and the world is with us there, so at least the burden of war is being shared. People are (more) united behind that cause than the continually dwindling "Coalition of the Willing" in Iraq. If the troops have to be somewhere, Afghanistan is the more acceptable place as that is at least going back to the fight against bin-Laden that started this whole thing. Not that I am in any way advocating that we should keep all those troops overseas.

And to Mekal's comment, about the families who have lost relatives in Iraq - this is exactly what I mean! More so than wanting their relative's sacrifice to be for something (an impossible "victory") than they want other people to not befall the same fate as their relative in a futile quest in a desert that soaks up our money and replies with decreasing oil and increasing hatred.

The whole thing about not letting troops "die in vain" is a sideshow in the end because you'll have some people who want the fighting to continue so that it will "mean something" and others who don't want others to suffer their loss. McCain mentioned a mother in the first category, while Obama met a mother in the second group. Both are arguments appealing to emotion: the first to (possibly misplaced) patriotism, and the second to love and family. There are always going to be people on both sides of this issue, so it doesn't really seem like a good reason to make a decision either way, although I personally find the second category to make more sense, but that's just me.

Good point, but right now the Congress is Democratic, right? With Obama in office, a lot more reforms will be passed by Congress than with a Rebublican president (ie, McCain). There's one of the fundamental differences and why I think Obama is better in the economic regard, though of course I don't have much knowledge in that domain. You, Brandonb and Dawh seem to be pretty knowledgeable in that area

I'm glad to discover that I can appear knowledgeable about something without actually knowing all that much. I know a fair bit of history and how things have happened in the past and I use that knowledge to make judgments about current policy, but I would hardly consider economics to be a strong suit of mine ...but thanks anyway!

What other candidates are there? I didn't even know there was others, lol - all I've heard is McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin, etc. What other parties are there? Cuz we need more big parties, that's for sure. I didn't know there were others - if there are, I'll have to re-look at the situation, and I think I'd agree with you about voting indendepent

if only there was an Atheist or Secularist party or something

I don't know all that much about the other independent candidates. I haven't heard this year, but in the past Nader had run with the Green Party, so I don't think that he is purely an independent. The Libertarian candidate (if that sort of thing excites you ) is Bob Barr and I'm not sure what the other Republican candidate Ron Paul is doing since last I heard, he was still campaigning against McCain. He's part of the Libertarian wing of the Republican Party, but I don't think he's signed on with Barr. There are other parties, but these are the ones that I know something about.

As for an "Atheist or Secularist" party, that will never be allowed to be taken seriously unless the Religious Right's death grip is removed from the neck of US politics. And to have any hope of that occurring, I think we'll need a lot of Progressive voices in Congress and in the White House and Obama's a lot closer to a Progressive than McCain ever will be.

[itachi-san]

The Alaskan Ethics Committee just found Palin to have abused her power The Republican Ticket is like the Titanic

[unreality]

lol Right now I think Obama can ride the wave right into the White House unless he does something stupid or the Reps bounce back

[itachi-san]

lol Right now I think Obama can ride the wave right into the White House unless he does something stupid or the Reps bounce back

yeah, I can't see how he could lose.

[Guest]

This is making me sick. McCain is LYING his a** off!!

What? Making Vets automatic teachers? HUH??? Cut the

spending across the board 'cept for a few ppl.???

SO who pays for the librarians? Who pays the electricity bill

for the senate, etc... OH MY GAWD!

[Mekal]

And to Mekal's comment, about the families who have lost relatives in Iraq - this is exactly what I mean! More so than wanting their relative's sacrifice to be for something (an impossible "victory") than they want other people to not befall the same fate as their relative in a futile quest in a desert that soaks up our money and replies with decreasing oil and increasing hatred.

First off, no matter what, we will eventually win the war. What matters is how many people die while doing so.

Second off, Though i don't support war, i do think that it is sometimes necessary. Now maybe this war isn't, but nobody can decide that

Third off, you fell right into my point. Notice you responded to the second, but not the first. It may not be as important, but it does show that alot of Democrats are being hypocritical, and that is not good.

[Guest]

First off, no matter what, we will eventually win the war. What matters is how many people die while doing so.

Second off, Though i don't support war, i do think that it is sometimes necessary. Now maybe this war isn't, but nobody can decide that

Third off, you fell right into my point. Notice you responded to the second, but not the first. It may not be as important, but it does show that alot of Democrats are being hypocritical, and that is not good.

I still haven't heard a satisfactory definition of what it means to win this war. A stable Iraq is not something that we can guarantee with any amount of peacekeeping force. If Iraq needs a peacekeeping force to be "stable" I fail to see how that could be called stable. Stability in Iraq is not something that we can control. That is in the hands of the Iraqi people and the extremists in their midst. I don't see how are American soldiers standing in the line of fire between centuries of mistrust is going to "win" anything.

As for war being necessary, I don't know that there will be many people who would deny that a war like WWII was necessary, and yes, no one person should be able to decide if a war is necessary, but there should be a way for groups of people to decide, which is clearly not present in this case. <_<

As for the Bush is to "nuclear" as Obama is to "Pakistan" thing, I made no comment about it earlier because it didn't really seem terribly important. I would say, now that you press the point, that "nuclear" is an English word, the only language that Bush professes to speak. Meanwhile Pakistan is a foreign word, probably modified from its native form by the British, so I'm not even sure how it's supposed to be pronounced (plus, I have no idea how Obama pronounces it in the first place, so I'm not in a position to diagnose the problem (if it exists at all. ))

[grey cells]

As for the Bush is to "nuclear" as Obama is to "Pakistan" thing, I made no comment about it earlier because it didn't really seem terribly important. I would say, now that you press the point, that "nuclear" is an English word, the only language that Bush professes to speak. Meanwhile Pakistan is a foreign word, probably modified from its native form by the British, so I'm not even sure how it's supposed to be pronounced (plus, I have no idea how Obama pronounces it in the first place, so I'm not in a position to diagnose the problem (if it exists at all. ))

This reminds me. Obama, a few days earlier recieved blessings from Lord Hanuman(a Hindu diety). And I think the lord had to travel to Obama or did Obama come to god? Anyways Have the blessings helped him any?

[Guest]

This reminds me. Obama, a few days earlier recieved blessings from Lord Hanuman(a Hindu diety). And I think the lord had to travel to Obama or did Obama come to god? Anyways Have the blessings helped him any?

I hope that they have; he'll need all the help he can get to get past some of the prejudice in this country...

[itachi-san]

I hope that they have; he'll need all the help he can get to get past some of the prejudice in this country...

Luckily I haven't been around much/if any prejudice in the US, but I'm well aware that it's out there. I was wondering what effects racism will have on the election. A great example would be people saying they will vote Obama, but once they actually get a chance to vote, they won't vote for a black guy because of their secret prejudice. Does anyone think this, or other examples of racism will play a big enough part in the voting process to hurt Obama substantially?

I think Obama's already got the election won. I watched some of the debate last night and it was really clear to me. McCain just looks desperate and was playing the "guilt by association" card. So I stopped watching because I thought it was silly. I've really had enough of it now, and am thinking of ways to be happy about President Obama. There are a few good things. Firstly, his presidency may actually lessen a lot of lingering racism in the country. Also, I'll finally be able to listen to my president talk and understand what he's saying, truth or lies, at least it will be clear and sensible English . It seems that with the bailout, Obama changed his economic plan to better fit what I want.

Also, I think he's an atheist, despite what he says. Given that, he'll lead the country away from Religious thinking and hopefully outlaw creationism and other horrible aspects of certain areas education. I'm not sure what can be done on a national level, aside from a standardized test, and if their kids don't know about evolution, then that teacher gets fired . Another good point is that Obama is computer/internet friendly whereas McCain seems to be scared of the internet. That's a very good point for Obama! As far as broad Foreign and Domestic economy pictures, no rehearsed words will ever convince me, so I'll just have to wait and see what he does. Hopefully the money will be too tight for him to make any of those big government-run operations like national healthcare.

[Guest]

. Another good point is that Obama is computer/internet friendly whereas McCain seems to be scared of the internet.

ha i laughed out loud at that

Hopefully the money will be too tight for him to make any of those big government-run operations like national healthcare.

Why do you say that itachi? I think someone ought to sort out US's healthcare, why not Obama?

When is this election anyway?

At the end of the day, someone's going to win. And we'll all have to live with it. Personally, i think that Obama won't lose due to racism. I think what with this whole let's-go-over-the-top-with-politically-correctness attitude people seem to have, voters are going to be to scared not to vote Obama, or they think the country will look bad.

Edited October 16, 2008 by lemonymelon

[Guest]

All I have to say is that I'm scared. And I mean genuinely scared. I'm not at all the anxious type (I dodge tornados for sport after all!) but this whole election fiasco has been keeping me up at night. I am afraid for my children if Obama gets elected. I'm afraid of pulling out of Iraq too early and how vulnerable that is going to make us to more terrorist acts. I'm afriad of Obama's socialist notions for healthcare...that my kids aren't going to be able to receive the care they need when they need it. I'm afraid if Obama is elected it will on be a few years before he sprouts 10 horns and starts adulterizing with Mystery Babylon, then makes everyone get marked in order to sell or trade. The man is the Anti-Christ!! Repent, for the end is near!!!

[itachi-san]

Why do you say that itachi? I think someone ought to sort out US's healthcare, why not Obama?

I agree it needs to be fixed, but Obama's ideas go in the wrong direction IMO. We've seen how poorly the government runs things (*cough* Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac *cough*) so why should we let them have more control and control over new things? I for one, would like to choose my own doctor and have that doctor and all medical treatment be paid for entirely by insurance that I pay for. Nationalized health care will be completely taken advantage of and become a disaster probably within a month. Our country is way to big and cities are way too crowded to open up the doors to everyone. There needs to be standards. People will be coming to get free medical care at hospitals for colds and headaches, while someone waits around with broken bones.

The key to fixing our health care is to dismantle or replace the heads of the FDA, To destroy the stranglehold of Prescription medicine and unnecessary surgery, and to regulate Insurance companies so that they insure what is actually best for people and not what makes everyone richer.

When is this election anyway?

Nov. 4th. I can't wait for it to just be over. It's always the first Tuesday of November BTW.

Edit: wrong date sorry

[Guest]

Nationalized health care will be completely taken advantage of and become a disaster probably within a month. Our country is way to big and cities are way too crowded to open up the doors to everyone. There needs to be standards. People will be coming to get free medical care at hospitals for colds and headaches, while someone waits around with broken bones.

The key to fixing our health care is to dismantle or replace the heads of the FDA, To destroy the stranglehold of Prescription medicine and unnecessary surgery, and to regulate Insurance companies so that they insure what is actually best for people and not what makes everyone richer.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I have way too many doctors and specialists to have to deal with socialized medicine.

Let's see:

1) Family Doc

2) Optimologist

3) OB/GYN

4) Cardiologist (local)

5) Cardiologist (out-of-town specialist)

5) Allergist

6) Denist

7) Psychiatrist (for "mothers little helper" )

Good grief! I'm a medical nightmare!! Now I just need a podiatrist, a proctologist, and a periodontist to complete my collection. There's no way that nationalized health care is going to provide all of this for me with reasonable convenience.

Edited October 16, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[Guest]

I support McCain. The thing that scares me the most is the fact that Obama strongly supports ACORN. They want the goverment to control everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. That seems sorta communist to me and I hate communists. I've also heard that Obama's wife is also a communist (heard it on the news). If he becomes president, I'm moving to Canada. I'm REEEALY afraid of what will happen.

[Mekal]

All I have to say is that I'm scared. And I mean genuinely scared. I'm not at all the anxious type (I dodge tornados for sport after all!) but this whole election fiasco has been keeping me up at night. I am afraid for my children if Obama gets elected. I'm afraid of pulling out of Iraq too early and how vulnerable that is going to make us to more terrorist acts. I'm afriad of Obama's socialist notions for healthcare...that my kids aren't going to be able to receive the care they need when they need it. I'm afraid if Obama is elected it will on be a few years before he sprouts 10 horns and starts adulterizing with Mystery Babylon, then makes everyone get marked in order to sell or trade. The man is the Anti-Christ!! Repent, for the end is near!!!

You know what... i am also... Honestly... One of the reasons that i didn't think was that big untill now is that if Obama is elected, then the democratic party will retain the House, the Senet, and the Presidency... and with the MOST far left leader... I am even more scared... I would be just as scared though, if the Republicans retained everything...

Honestly... I don't want to biggest anything... I wouldn't vote for the Biggest Librel, and I wouldn't vote for the Biggest Conservative... Much less if it would put an end to the balance of our country...

[Guest]

You know what... i am also... Honestly... One of the reasons that i didn't think was that big untill now is that if Obama is elected, then the democratic party will retain the House, the Senet, and the Presidency... and with the MOST far left leader... I am even more scared... I would be just as scared though, if the Republicans retained everything...

Honestly... I don't want to biggest anything... I wouldn't vote for the Biggest Librel, and I wouldn't vote for the Biggest Conservative... Much less if it would put an end to the balance of our country...

I've never understood where the people on the news got that metric. Obama is not the most liberal member of the Senate. Not even close. He opposed Bush's policies a lot, but that hardly makes him liberal. I would think that Bernie Sanders, the only self-proclaimed Socialist in Congress, would be the most liberal...

I was scared for the middle four years of the past eight years, when the Republicans held the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court. We've seen how well that worked, it's time to let someone else have a go. Maybe Independents would be better, but at this point, I just want to see power change hands for a couple years and we'll go from there.

Giterdone, that's an interesting plan...other than the fact that the "conservatives" are currently in control of Canada's government, as I understand it, Canada is far more socialist/communist than the US is likely to become in the near future...

People are constantly pooh-poohing Universal Healthcare and while I don't think that Obama's plan is perfect, I don't see what the problem is. Medicare has been one of the more successful government programs, so I don't see why that can't be expanded to a larger audience. I don't see why "socialized healthcare" is mutually exclusive to choosing your own doctor; it seems that among all the bright people in this country, there ought to be someone with a plan to allow the government to administer a healthcare program that doesn't interrupt your day-to-day service.

Also, I thought that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were only quasi-government run, sort of a private/public hybrid (at least until they were bailed out ) They are/were shareholder managed institutions with charters from the government.

[Guest]

I support McCain. The thing that scares me the most is the fact that Obama strongly supports ACORN. They want the goverment to control everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. That seems sorta communist to me and I hate communists. I've also heard that Obama's wife is also a communist (heard it on the news). If he becomes president, I'm moving to Canada. I'm REEEALY afraid of what will happen.

haha that's what my Dad says about McCain...

[Guest]

All I have to say is that I'm scared. And I mean genuinely scared. I'm not at all the anxious type (I dodge tornados for sport after all!) but this whole election fiasco has been keeping me up at night. I am afraid for my children if Obama gets elected. I'm afraid of pulling out of Iraq too early and how vulnerable that is going to make us to more terrorist acts. I'm afriad of Obama's socialist notions for healthcare...that my kids aren't going to be able to receive the care they need when they need it. I'm afraid if Obama is elected it will on be a few years before he sprouts 10 horns and starts adulterizing with Mystery Babylon, then makes everyone get marked in order to sell or trade. The man is the Anti-Christ!! Repent, for the end is near!!!

I would like to start by saying that I wish there weren't people out there (and that you aren't one of them ) who believed (for some inexplicable reason) that Obama was the Anti-Christ. The last two people that I know if who were accused of that title were Napoleon and Hitler and I don't see Obama on par with either of them.

I would like to point out that before we invaded Iraq, there were no terrorists in Iraq (at least none who were interested in attacking us.) Saddam and bin Laden hated each other and only now that Saddam is gone has Al Qaeda gained a presence there. None of the hijackers of 9/11 were Iraqi (3/4 were Saudi Arabian, but we never even consider threatening them despite the fact that their regime is pretty repressive too.) I've said it before, but we are currently standing between centuries of hatred and I don't see how we can ever stabilize the region by simply continuing to stand in the line of fire between these different factions. I don't think that we have the capacity to both stabilize the region and maintain a democracy in Iraq. If that's going to happen, it's not going to be because we're standing there (I will say that we may be able to play a part, but that the majority of the forces, and I'm not talking military force, that will stabilize the region are not aspects that we can control.) Also, if you're afraid of terrorists threatening the your children, I would be more concerned with bin Laden who is hiding out somewhere in the Afghan/Pakistan border region, which last I checked, was not anywhere near Iraq.

Also, I fail to see how the insurance industry has our best interests at heart. They make money by denying claims, and that hardly seems to be an encouraging fact. Insurance shouldn't be an "industry;" it's supposed to be a service to consumers since medical costs have become so exorbitant. Something needs to be done. Either medical costs need to come down or the insurance industry needs a complete overhaul. Those two things are not mutually exclusive because the hospitals often have to foot the bill for the uninsured/under-insured and they pass those costs on to the patients and the insurance companies to cover costs. Then the insurance companies raise everyone else's premiums to keep up their hefty profit margins. If everyone was insured, a lot of these cost hikes wouldn't be necessary (or remotely justifiable. <_< ) The insurance companies are not going to provide insurance to everyone of the own volition, so someone needs to step up to the plate and do something about it.

I've yet to see or hear of any human spontaneously sprouting horns, so I wouldn't worry too much about that happening to Obama.

[Guest]

I support McCain. The thing that scares me the most is the fact that Obama strongly supports ACORN. They want the goverment to control everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. That seems sorta communist to me and I hate communists. I've also heard that Obama's wife is also a communist (heard it on the news). If he becomes president, I'm moving to Canada. I'm REEEALY afraid of what will happen.

If Obama is communist, that is actually scary. Everything about communism gives me the creeps. But I think the rest of the world cares too much about the US to let it turn communist. Don't worry guys! I still think Obama's going to win though.

[Guest]

I would like to start by saying that I wish there weren't people out there (and that you aren't one of them ) who believed (for some inexplicable reason) that Obama was the Anti-Christ. The last two people that I know if who were accused of that title were Napoleon and Hitler and I don't see Obama on par with either of them.

I've yet to see or hear of any human spontaneously sprouting horns, so I wouldn't worry too much about that happening to Obama.

Thank you. I can't even count how many times I've received e-mail forwards form my grandmother who live in Texas about how Obama is the Anti-Christ, and that Obama is Muslim, and, recently the he's been reading a book about how to give Muslims control over our economy (not that there is much to control right now anyway) and it annoys the hell out of me. Just because some random televangelist comes out and brings up some random misconstrued fact and takes it to mean the Obama is the Anti-Christ, all of a sudden you get a large number of American who apparently can't think for themselves (i mean this in the most non-offensive way possible) who run around saying that if Obama gets elected ito office it will lead to Armageddon. seriously?!? I don't think it would matter elected or not, the Anti-Christ is still the Anti-Christ (if that's what you want to believe) President-elect or not.

Also he's not Muslim at all! Hes half black half white. He was raisded by his white grandparents as a Christian. And for those who look at that picture of his traditional attire (which was many years ago), that happens to be African attire worn for a festival in America.

Oh and that book, it';s about how other countries took action to build their economies not how to take down America's. I swear it's ridiculoous, these days, if a book talks positively about other countries, it's automatically anti-American, c'mon people, figure it out.

If Obama is communist, that is actually scary. Everything about communism gives me the creeps. But I think the rest of the world cares too much about the US to let it turn communist. Don't worry guys! I still think Obama's going to win though.

Form what I hear the casinos in Ireland are already paying out on the bets for Obama.

[Guest]

If Obama is communist, that is actually scary. Everything about communism gives me the creeps. But I think the rest of the world cares too much about the US to let it turn communist. Don't worry guys! I still think Obama's going to win though.

Don't worry about communism in America, it's not likely to happen, and Obama certainly isn't going to be the one to lead the charge. Extreme Right-wing propaganda likes to paint anything left of center as communist, and Obama's far closer to the center than any other direction as far as I'm concerned. Also, I think that there is a distinct difference between communism and socialism. Communism may be derived from socialism, but socialism itself is a different beast entirely. Everything that is communist (at least according to the manifesto) is socialist, but not everything that is socialist is communist. It also doesn't help matters that "communists" rarely follow the manifesto as it's outlined, since the dictator is supposed to step down from power once everything has been nationalized, but that has never happened. As it is, we've never actually seen communism as it was originally postulated (not that I'm saying that would be a good thing, I'm just saying that we've never seen a real communist government, so the bad ones that we have seen should hardly be used to judge the rest of the socialistic ideas.)

You're welcome Impervious!

[Guest]

I would like to start by saying that I wish there weren't people out there (and that you aren't one of them ) who believed (for some inexplicable reason) that Obama was the Anti-Christ.

Thank you for realizing that I was only joking. However, I don't think his leadership would be what is best for our country right now.

... Also, if you're afraid of terrorists threatening the your children, I would be more concerned with bin Laden who is hiding out somewhere in the Afghan/Pakistan border region, which last I checked, was not anywhere near Iraq.

I do not think that the terrorists are Iraqi. I know that we need to seek out Al Qaeda and stop them...that they are the real threat. What I meant was that by pulling out of Iraq before everything is settled then it makes us look weak and self-serving. Causing even more hatred towards Americans and possibly stepping up terrorist attempts at us.

Also, I fail to see how the insurance industry has our best interests at heart. They make money by denying claims, and that hardly seems to be an encouraging fact. Insurance shouldn't be an "industry;" it's supposed to be a service to consumers since medical costs have become so exorbitant. Something needs to be done. Either medical costs need to come down or the insurance industry needs a complete overhaul.

I agree with everything you said, but I don't agree with Obama's plan. The insurance industry needs to be regulated, absolutely! But socialized medicine is going to do us more harm than high premiums ever could. I'd rather pay out the whazoo for the providers of my chosing so that I can receive top notch health care than feel little out-of-pocket but not be able to receive the care I need when I need it.

I've yet to see or hear of any human spontaneously sprouting horns, so I wouldn't worry too much about that happening to Obama.

Just becuase you haven't heard about it doesn't mean it can't happen.

[Prof. Templeton]

Why do people believe they will be forced to leave their current plan and providers? Both canidates have stated this won't happen with either of the plans they are floating. My problem with McCain's healthcare plan is the taxing of healthcare expendatures, that were previously a pre-tax deduction, and then offsetting this with a tax credit. While the average tax-payer may see a net decrease in their total tax the first year or years, with healthcare costs increasing almost 7 percent a year that decrease will turn into an increase in a short time.