[itachi-san]

Firstly, I'm not talking about bulletproof immortality, but rather health and aging immortality, eternal youth. It is my understanding that all forms of aging are mostly, if not all, the result of consuming toxins into our bodies by a plethora of means and over a long period of time. My questions are: would it ever be possible to turn a human body into a perfect detoxification system? And if so, would this be enough to truly have eternal youth or would it maybe just double our life expectancies?

[Guest]

I don't think we can be immortal...

because there is no escape from toxins, we polute the earth more and more each day. It's kind of sad

It think the only way it is possible is to be in a bubble (Like bubble boy ) but you would still be able to get toxins as you were being born, therfore you would not be toxin-free (pure)

[Brandonb]

I've always wondered the same thing, not through detoxification, but through control of mutated cell growth. Like a full body tumor or something... with regulated cell replication.

[Guest]

It's oversimplifying a bit to say that aging results from accumulated toxins, and it's definitely a mistake to think that the toxins that cause long-term damage are simply acquired from our environment, as Thuchris seemed to imply. The majority of long-term damage to cellular reproduction results from the byproducts of ordinary metabolism. Free radicals appear to be a major factor in the rate of aging, but it seems unlikely they can be blamed as the primary cause. In addition, cells are programmed to self-destruct (apoptosis) if problems are detected, which is a natural mechanism to prevent cancer and other replication problems, but as we get older this process seems to speed up, and even healthy cells commit suicide.

Incidentally, since evolution theory insists that the goal of the organism is to reproduce and pass on its genetics, it seems odd that we would develop natural mechanisms to induce aging and death. And with all of the astoundingly complex features that survival-of-the-fittest has supposedly produced, isn't it just a bit odd that some of the most highly evolved organisms only produce a couple of offspring, on average? Don't mean to get off topic, but it seemed relevant.

In any case, a quick google search turned up some interesting articles:

http://www.senescence.info/causes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence#Theories_of_aging

Now, having said all that, I should note that my personal belief is that humans were originally designed to live forever. I would lean toward the idea that the observed triggers of aging are, as they appear to be, by design. Perhaps there was some anti-aging subsystem within humans, similar to the OP's 'perfect detox' idea, which God disabled when humans rejected his authority and became sinful. In short, I don't think the suggestion of eternal youth is far-fetched at all, but I don't expect that humans will find the cure to aging before God steps in and takes care of the problem himself.

[Guest]

As Duh Puck rightly said, it is not the toxins which causes the death but the internal coding of the DNA sequence. It is called Apoptosis or the 'programmed cell death'.

If we some how change the DNA sequence of the new born, we can always make a balance between the cell death and formation.

If we get injured while young, the cells regenerates quickly. But this tendency decreases with age.

The DNA can be manipulated in such a way that this tendency doesn't decrease.

The cause of death lies within us.

I would like to add one more point -

If everyone were immortal, there would be no reproduction (no sex) and no evolution.

[Guest]

I would like to add one more point -

If everyone were immortal, there would be no reproduction (no sex) and no evolution.

That might be basically true for sexually reproducing organisms, but interestingly, asexually reproducing organisms essentially already are immortal. Provided they have available resources, they simply keep dividing without ever actually dying. And they certainly do evolve in the strictest sense of the word (i.e., mutated traits are selectable).

[Guest]

That might be basically true for sexually reproducing organisms, but interestingly, asexually reproducing organisms essentially already are immortal. Provided they have available resources, they simply keep dividing without ever actually dying. And they certainly do evolve in the strictest sense of the word (i.e., mutated traits are selectable).

Yes, totally agree with you there.

In those unfortunate creatures, evolution might only occur through mutation.

Consider the case of Arbuscular mycorrhiza which reproduces asexually, is identical to fossil records dating back to the Ordovician period, 460 million years ago.

[Guest]

Ok - not really gonna talk too much about death!

We could slow down like the tortoise and live to be over a hundred, some pet that makes - yo have to leave it in your will cos it outlives you - who's the pet?

Or we could stay still like clams - now that's boring!

Intersesting that something as huge as the elephant make it to 70 years, perhaps some whales live more, some think up to a 100.

What can make the difference, clean healthy life can add 10% to your own life - good luck!

[onetruth]

It's oversimplifying a bit to say that aging results from accumulated toxins, and it's definitely a mistake to think that the toxins that cause long-term damage are simply acquired from our environment, as Thuchris seemed to imply. The majority of long-term damage to cellular reproduction results from the byproducts of ordinary metabolism. Free radicals appear to be a major factor in the rate of aging, but it seems unlikely they can be blamed as the primary cause. In addition, cells are programmed to self-destruct (apoptosis) if problems are detected, which is a natural mechanism to prevent cancer and other replication problems, but as we get older this process seems to speed up, and even healthy cells commit suicide.

Incidentally, since evolution theory insists that the goal of the organism is to reproduce and pass on its genetics, it seems odd that we would develop natural mechanisms to induce aging and death. And with all of the astoundingly complex features that survival-of-the-fittest has supposedly produced, isn't it just a bit odd that some of the most highly evolved organisms only produce a couple of offspring, on average? Don't mean to get off topic, but it seemed relevant.

In any case, a quick google search turned up some interesting articles:

http://www.senescence.info/causes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence#Theories_of_aging

Now, having said all that, I should note that my personal belief is that humans were originally designed to live forever. I would lean toward the idea that the observed triggers of aging are, as they appear to be, by design. Perhaps there was some anti-aging subsystem within humans, similar to the OP's 'perfect detox' idea, which God disabled when humans rejected his authority and became sinful. In short, I don't think the suggestion of eternal youth is far-fetched at all, but I don't expect that humans will find the cure to aging before God steps in and takes care of the problem himself.

This is my answer. Only much smarter.

[Guest]

If everyone were immortal, there would be no reproduction (no sex) and no evolution.

I'm confused,

why would being immortal stop you from being able to reproduce

[Guest]

As Duh Puck rightly said, it is not the toxins which causes the death but the internal coding of the DNA sequence. It is called Apoptosis or the 'programmed cell death'.

If we some how change the DNA sequence of the new born, we can always make a balance between the cell death and formation.

If we get injured while young, the cells regenerates quickly. But this tendency decreases with age.

The DNA can be manipulated in such a way that this tendency doesn't decrease.

The cause of death lies within us.

I would like to add one more point -

If everyone were immortal, there would be no reproduction (no sex) and no evolution.

No sex!!!

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Guest]

Oh.. I'm sure there would be sex.

[Brandonb]

Oh.. I'm sure there would be sex.

LOL! true, there is no way sex would evolve out of us. If you were immortal, what would you do with all that spare time?

[Guest]

Figure out how to get off this earth before we consumed all resources it has to offer?

[itachi-san]

LOL! true, there is no way sex would evolve out of us. If you were immortal, what would you do with all that spare time?

Have sex, but keep a population limit... tough but fair

[itachi-san]

It's oversimplifying a bit to say that aging results from accumulated toxins, and it's definitely a mistake to think that the toxins that cause long-term damage are simply acquired from our environment, as Thuchris seemed to imply. The majority of long-term damage to cellular reproduction results from the byproducts of ordinary metabolism. Free radicals appear to be a major factor in the rate of aging, but it seems unlikely they can be blamed as the primary cause. In addition, cells are programmed to self-destruct (apoptosis) if problems are detected, which is a natural mechanism to prevent cancer and other replication problems, but as we get older this process seems to speed up, and even healthy cells commit suicide.

When I say 'toxins' I mean to include products of indigestion. There are indeed many sources and forms of toxins that we can acquire both internally and externally. Why shouldn't toxins be labeled as the primary cause of aging then? If they aren't it, what is? Also, with the apoptosis example, what causes that process to speed up and become harmful? Is it perhaps toxin-related?

[akaslickster]

I recently saw a detox patch for your foot overnight, in just 5 days. Maybe just a gimmick or garbage. If this is true we could be on to something like the colon cleanse. Only herbs and unharmful extracts (paid commercial) they talk for a half hour about sh..! I'll say immortal possibly long after we're gone, thats just a stab.

Edited May 26, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

I recently saw a detox patch for your foot overnight, in just 5 days. Maybe just a gimmick or garbage. If this is true we could be on to something like the colon cleanse. Only herbs and unharmful extracts (paid commercial) they talk for a half hour about sh..! I'll say immortal possibly long after we're gone, thats just a stab.

Some are designed in a way to act s a constant reminder, but may have an effect to a small degree - whatever cranks your handle!

[Guest]

When I say 'toxins' I mean to include products of indigestion. There are indeed many sources and forms of toxins that we can acquire both internally and externally. Why shouldn't toxins be labeled as the primary cause of aging then? If they aren't it, what is? Also, with the apoptosis example, what causes that process to speed up and become harmful? Is it perhaps toxin-related?

Technically, a toxin is a poison produced by a living organism, so unhealthy by-products of metabolism such as lactic acid (you know, the nasty stuff that builds up in your muscles and causes major soreness after long-distance running) qualify, but free radicals, which are just highly reactive molecules, do not. Regardless, the question boils down to figuring out what causes damage to the mechanisms of cellular repair and reproduction. I really don't have a clue, but I just spent a few minutes following wikipedia links on the subject. It's very interesting. I was particularly intrigued by this one: Reliability theory of aging and longevity

Mechanical failure in machines tends to follow mathematical distributions expected from everything starting out good and components gradually wearing down, but aging seems to follow a curve which is better explained by damage loaded at the front end. In other words, we're born with the damage in place, and it takes a relatively consistent amount of time for the redundancy systems to fail. If that's true, then all of the other factors we've been discussing (toxins, free radicals, DNA damage, apoptosis) would simply speed up or slow down the process, but the eventual outcome would be inevitable. I have no reason to believe that theory over others, but I must admit it appeals to my pre-existing religious belief.

[Guest]

Ah but as we get older maybe they'll just be able to replace bits of you that get worn out, like Trigger's 20-year old broom "It's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles"

[Guest]

Ah but as we get older maybe they'll just be able to replace bits of you that get worn out, like Trigger's 20-year old broom "It's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles"

One of my favs!!!

Then there is the chance a toxin will be brought from outer space the PHAGE star trek