[gvg]

I was born into a roman catholic family, though not the most religious ones out there. I sat through catechism from 1st grade until the end, when I got my confirmation. Recently, however, I've realized that my beliefs don't necessarily match with the catholic religion, or Christianity as a whole.I'm going to write out my beliefs below. If anybody knows of a religion that fits, please tell me what it is. Also, anyone else with the same problem is welcome to get help here as well.

I believe in God, therefor, atheism is out of the question. I believe that God set in motion the vents that make the present universe, meaning that he set the Big Bang in motion, and everything from there can be explained by science. Genesis is crud. Evolution created the diversity we have, and the heterotroph hypothesis is responsible for life. I believe in miracles, but mostly scientific ones. Physics explains the universe beautifully. Brains of alternate universes, string theory. All what I believe. I also think people can be spiritual and moral without religion. It seems like I'm deistic, but I don't agree with some of their points either, like complete rejection of books claiming to be the word of God. I think some parts of the bible, mostly the New Testament, are correct, and I believe that Jesus was the son of God.

I know it seems messed up, but that's why I made this, to see if there is a religion that I agree with.

PLEASE ANSWER!!!!!

[Guest]

Well, it doesn't really matter what religion you pick. It just matters if it fits your morals. At the very least, it should follow basic rules like "No killing."

[unreality]

I would say you are almost definitely a deist, if you subtract the non-interventionalism. Deists say that the "greatest miracle is that there are no miracles", ie, some creator set in motion the beginning of the universe and then (metaphorically) 'sat back and watched' on a grand universal scale, where humans are just evolved animals on a tiny planet.

I also think there's a lot of wisdom (but also a lot of misdirection) to the NT, and I think Jesus was a real person, but I don't think he's the son of god and I don't think you can either without threatening otehr beliefs you said you have (ie you believed that physics explained it and that there were no "super"natural miracles per se).

But I think you could still incorporate that in and be a Deist with slight "interventionist" leanings, as far as coming to earth in the form of Jesus goes.

[Guest]

There is a branch of Christianity that is something like Scientific Christians. I think their beliefs might be similar to yours. I'm not positive though. Try looking into it.

[EDM]

well.....i'm not that far behind i guess......

I believe that God set in motion the vents that make the present universe, meaning that he set the Big Bang in motion, and everything from there can be explained by science

well.....that seems to be right to me.....

Genesis is crud. Evolution created the diversity we have, and the heterotroph hypothesis is responsible for life.

i don't completely agree with you there......i think that genesis is the main thing and evolution came after it (the 'modernising' of genesis - on earth, to put it mildly)

I believe in miracles, but mostly scientific ones.

Well.....too bad that there are 3 types of miracles, scientific, non scientific and the in-between......

Physics explains the universe beautifully. Brains of alternate universes, string theory. All what I believe.

Ok.....it is important; we are learning, afterall

I also think people can be spiritual and moral without religion.

Yeah....that's true, but religion is preferred.....

My conclusion; You're a 'modern' christian , if not catholic....... :D

Edited July 14, 2010 by EDM

[unreality]

and deists don't "reject" holy books, they just consider them human-made interpretations, not god-written tomes. That doesn't mean you can't whip out the Kama Sutra or the Tripitaka or the Old Testament now and again

[gvg]

Yeah, that's what I thought I was towards... thanks =)

[andromeda]

I would refer to you as a Reasonable Christian (I don't know if it's a religion, or not *shrug*)

Welcome to the Den

[gvg]

And thanks =)

[Guest]

Of the over 6 billion or nearly 6 billion or whatever, that number is irrelevant, people on this tiny little planet in this tiny little galaxy in this tiny little universe that is constantly expanding because it is so small ... there are that many beliefs. NO two people have the exact same religion ... if they do then it is not religion. "I think therefore I am"... well I am me and you are you ... Don't ask others what religion YOU are ... ask YOU what you believe and then ask why. Do you believe because I said so or some high ranking official said so or your parents, brother, sister, or friend said so?... Why would that matter ... you want to 'fit in'? ... fit in to what ... a label? Don't label yourself, don't label anyone. Labeling leads to discrimination and all religions frown upon that even though all religions practice it. I'm not saying I don't believe in an entity greater then I my ego isn't that omniscient. Even though I do believe in creationism ... we created God. As God is to Jesus is to Satan ... As Superman is to Clark Kent is to Lex Luther. 2000 years ago to 2000 years from now(a way to control the masses). I don't believe in predestination either. We have control of our destiny. We can choose to die on a cross and live in infamy or die on a cross and live forever. I don't want to walk a day in your shoes and I'm thankful for the shoes I have.

I'm not telling you what I believe so you believe too. I'm telling you this because if you are in search for understanding ... then look for it. You obviously have access to the Internet ... read as much as you can about all other religions out there and determine for yourself why they believe what they believe and how they come to that conclusion ... don't believe me because I know nothing. The current bible to me is similar to that of a telephone game we'd play in grade one when we'd get a circle of kids whispering in one ear all around the circle until it got back to the original speaker and it was different. Everyone hears and understands differently. The bible has been 'revised' many times before and I only wish I had the original text and was able to decipher it myself. There is WOW which is unexplained and considered miraculous or Godlike and there is wow that is considered amazing but proven by science. WOW only lasts until we can scientifically explain it. One day WOW will exist no more because the Sun doesn't rotate around us and the Earth is not flat(ask Copernicus and Columbus).

[gvg]

I see what you mean, and I understand what you are saying. I was just not entirely sure, since I've been living with the same religion for my entire life. I actually did try to search through different religions before this, but could only find major religions, which I didn't agree with. I thought that maybe doing something like this would bring to light a religion that I've never heard of before or that is so small that it would take a while to find it on the internet.

Thanks for the post though.

[unreality]

in that case gvg you might want to check out Bahai'ism. Most religious people are not as open-minded about other religions as PVroot is (great post by the way ) and I agree with what he/she was saying about how no two people believe in the same god or same religion or same philosophy.

[gvg]

It looks like a good religion but for two things:

One: I don't believe that the universe has always existed, as this religion believes.

Two: It seems that they think God created everything (tell me if I'm wrong), which as I stated before, I do not believe, although I think he set the forces of creation in motion.

However, it does seem that this religion won't put restrictions on my scientific beliefs, so maybe this one's good to. Now I have to think a little more =)

[Guest]

I was born into a roman catholic family, though not the most religious ones out there. I sat through catechism from 1st grade until the end, when I got my confirmation. Recently, however, I've realized that my beliefs don't necessarily match with the catholic religion, or Christianity as a whole.I'm going to write out my beliefs below. If anybody knows of a religion that fits, please tell me what it is. Also, anyone else with the same problem is welcome to get help here as well.

I believe in God, therefor, atheism is out of the question. I believe that God set in motion the vents that make the present universe, meaning that he set the Big Bang in motion, and everything from there can be explained by science. Genesis is crud. Evolution created the diversity we have, and the heterotroph hypothesis is responsible for life. I believe in miracles, but mostly scientific ones. Physics explains the universe beautifully. Brains of alternate universes, string theory. All what I believe. I also think people can be spiritual and moral without religion. It seems like I'm deistic, but I don't agree with some of their points either, like complete rejection of books claiming to be the word of God. I think some parts of the bible, mostly the New Testament, are correct, and I believe that Jesus was the son of God.

I know it seems messed up, but that's why I made this, to see if there is a religion that I agree with.

PLEASE ANSWER!!!!!

You would be kind of agnostic. I share you believes. I'll find the name for you!

Edited July 21, 2010 by NickFleming

[Guest]

FOUND IT! You would be Creationist. Specifically Old Earth Creationist.. If you believe in Darwinian evolution, you'd also be somewhat Theistic evolutionist. All of these are types of Scientific Christian Apologetics.

Edited July 21, 2010 by NickFleming

[Guest]

Scratch that we're just plain Theistic evolutionists.

[Guest]

I was born into a roman catholic family, though not the most religious ones out there. I sat through catechism from 1st grade until the end, when I got my confirmation. Recently, however, I've realized that my beliefs don't necessarily match with the catholic religion, or Christianity as a whole.I'm going to write out my beliefs below. If anybody knows of a religion that fits, please tell me what it is. Also, anyone else with the same problem is welcome to get help here as well.

I believe in God, therefor, atheism is out of the question. I believe that God set in motion the vents that make the present universe, meaning that he set the Big Bang in motion, and everything from there can be explained by science. Genesis is crud. Evolution created the diversity we have, and the heterotroph hypothesis is responsible for life. I believe in miracles, but mostly scientific ones. Physics explains the universe beautifully. Brains of alternate universes, string theory. All what I believe. I also think people can be spiritual and moral without religion. It seems like I'm deistic, but I don't agree with some of their points either, like complete rejection of books claiming to be the word of God. I think some parts of the bible, mostly the New Testament, are correct, and I believe that Jesus was the son of God.

I know it seems messed up, but that's why I made this, to see if there is a religion that I agree with.

PLEASE ANSWER!!!!!

I completely agree with you!

[gvg]

Glad =) Thing is, since then, I've changed my views a little, more to "I see no need for him, no evidence, so I'm agnostic." Bible is kinda... well... poo. Jesus, then, isn't the Son of God, and IF God is even real, he is extremely out of the equation, more like a watcher (deist like =))

I know, kind of a big change, but meh. I just sorta say I'm agnostic/atheist to anyone who asks, and I just say "Who cares? Why bother?"

But glad to know I was at least a little sensible then =)

[Molly Mae]

Start your own religion. Everyone else is doing it.

[Guest]

Glad =) Thing is, since then, I've changed my views a little, more to "I see no need for him, no evidence, so I'm agnostic." Bible is kinda... well... poo. Jesus, then, isn't the Son of God, and IF God is even real, he is extremely out of the equation, more like a watcher (deist like =))

I know, kind of a big change, but meh. I just sorta say I'm agnostic/atheist to anyone who asks, and I just say "Who cares? Why bother?"

But glad to know I was at least a little sensible then =)

Remember me?

I am very surprised at this. The Bible is poo? Does this mean you truly went from being Christian a few months ago to being truly agnostic? That is a big change. I've never known anyone personally to make it (of course I'm still a kid, so that's not saying too much). In our threads back whenever you sounded pretty solidly religious to me.

I believe in God, therefor, atheism is out of the question...I think some parts of the bible, mostly the New Testament, are correct, and I believe that Jesus was the son of God.

To go from that to being agnostic is quite significant. How long have you been a Christian (if you don't mind me asking)? I think that one reason why people who have been religious for so long rarely give it up is because they are deeply invested in it. Lots of people rely on their faith socially. What I mean is that when you go to church for a few decades and then decide that you don't believe it anymore, not only are you choosing not to believe in it, but you're choosing to give up a possibly large social chunk of your lifestyle. Perhaps you weren't so socially involved? I'm curious what made you change your views. Perhaps it was that you spent a good amount of your time discussing and debating with many of the intelligent people on this website many of which happen to be agnostic or atheist and they possibly lead you to question your beliefs?

Anyways, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about why you made this big change, I would love to hear about it. Thanks.

[gvg]

UtF: Oh yeah. I remember you =)

Well, what I meant by poo is, yeah, the morals are great, and sure, some events are historically accurate, but most of it's crap. (Well, i mean, most of the "events" in the bible are in the old testament so... guess that didn't change much..)

I'm a freshman in high school actually, and have never been very religious. These debates have, indeed, made me question... that, and the fact that science has always beaten religion in giving me answers and explanations and truth (for me). But yes, these debates made me think (gotta thank Izzy for that one =)). I realized that, well, what i thought was very different from what i was 'supposed' to believe. I was always a very sciece person, and over tiime, I just stopped finding room for a divine character. I still think he may be there, but I see no use for him, and no evidence.

I've also been reading up on religions and ideas lately. I realized that agnosticism (and i mean true agnosticism... I made sound almost atheist, but I really just don't know. Or care.) I've noticed many connections between many religions... tons of flood stories (greek, mesopotamian, judeo-christian, etc.), very similar creation stories, the fact that signs of religion were limited in early humans... it either meant that everythign's true and we just don't realize, or none is true (I HIGHLY doubt it's just one and nothing else), and as a rational person, I went with the former. However, just because no religion is pure fact doesn't mean there can't be a god. I just don't see any true support either way. So, yeah, agnostic.

I kinda babbled there a little (It's quite late =)), but I think I was clear enough. It happened gradually. Can I switch later? Well, sure. A neuatral person can switch at any time.

The way I see it, religion (not spirituality, two completely seperate things in my book) is good as a spport/social system, as you pointed out. It gives you a very family type setting, which is good for people who are down, lonely, etc. The morals too are good. Once you start going on a homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc, rage, well, then religion becomes a disease.

I am still spiritual in a sense. I believe in karma, though I question the afterlife. I like the idea of reincarnation, though I still wonder about it. Etc.

And by me, I've seen such switches happen a lot. My english teacher was Catholic (much like me) and is now agnostic. A jewish (by nationality and religion) friend of mine became agnostic then atheist very rapidly (he pissed off his family by refusing to have a barmitzfa or light the menorah. I could never do that =)). Once you question, it's hard to keep accepting it on anything other than faith alone.

So yeah. That's what happened. =)

Funny how things change in two seasons, huh? =)

Edited December 19, 2010 by gvg

[Guest]

UtF: Oh yeah. I remember you =)

Well, what I meant by poo is, yeah, the morals are great, and sure, some events are historically accurate, but most of it's crap. (Well, i mean, most of the "events" in the bible are in the old testament so... guess that didn't change much..)

I'm a freshman in high school actually, and have never been very religious. These debates have, indeed, made me question... that, and the fact that science has always beaten religion in giving me answers and explanations and truth (for me). But yes, these debates made me think (gotta thank Izzy for that one =)). I realized that, well, what i thought was very different from what i was 'supposed' to believe. I was always a very sciece person, and over tiime, I just stopped finding room for a divine character. I still think he may be there, but I see no use for him, and no evidence.

I've also been reading up on religions and ideas lately. I realized that agnosticism (and i mean true agnosticism... I made sound almost atheist, but I really just don't know. Or care.) I've noticed many connections between many religions... tons of flood stories (greek, mesopotamian, judeo-christian, etc.), very similar creation stories, the fact that signs of religion were limited in early humans... it either meant that everythign's true and we just don't realize, or none is true (I HIGHLY doubt it's just one and nothing else), and as a rational person, I went with the former. However, just because no religion is pure fact doesn't mean there can't be a god. I just don't see any true support either way. So, yeah, agnostic.

I kinda babbled there a little (It's quite late =)), but I think I was clear enough. It happened gradually. Can I switch later? Well, sure. A neuatral person can switch at any time.

The way I see it, religion (not spirituality, two completely seperate things in my book) is good as a spport/social system, as you pointed out. It gives you a very family type setting, which is good for people who are down, lonely, etc. The morals too are good. Once you start going on a homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc, rage, well, then religion becomes a disease.

I am still spiritual in a sense. I believe in karma, though I question the afterlife. I like the idea of reincarnation, though I still wonder about it. Etc.

And by me, I've seen such switches happen a lot. My english teacher was Catholic (much like me) and is now agnostic. A jewish (by nationality and religion) friend of mine became agnostic then atheist very rapidly (he pissed off his family by refusing to have a barmitzfa or light the menorah. I could never do that =)). Once you question, it's hard to keep accepting it on anything other than faith alone.

So yeah. That's what happened. =)

Funny how things change in two seasons, huh? =)

Good to know. So you're in high school. Okay, I've know a lot like you. For some reason I thought you were someone significantly older who had been through a lot in life and was finally deciding to stop being religious. THOSE people are much rarer. Anyways, it is late. Thanks.

[gvg]

No prob. =) Have a good night =)

[unreality]

UtF: Oh yeah. I remember you =)

Well, what I meant by poo is, yeah, the morals are great, and sure, some events are historically accurate, but most of it's crap. (Well, i mean, most of the "events" in the bible are in the old testament so... guess that didn't change much..)

Some of the morals are great. Others not so much. And the Bible is often toted as being "pretty historically accurate at least given the circumstances of the time" for at least the stories which are more historical and less fable, but often there is a lot of contradiction between books within the Bible, with one book contradicting what another says, about both historical things and theological concepts.

I'm a freshman in high school actually, and have never been very religious. These debates have, indeed, made me question... that, and the fact that science has always beaten religion in giving me answers and explanations and truth (for me). But yes, these debates made me think (gotta thank Izzy for that one =)). I realized that, well, what i thought was very different from what i was 'supposed' to believe. I was always a very sciece person, and over tiime, I just stopped finding room for a divine character. I still think he may be there, but I see no use for him, and no evidence.

I've also been reading up on religions and ideas lately. I realized that agnosticism (and i mean true agnosticism... I made sound almost atheist, but I really just don't know. Or care.) I've noticed many connections between many religions... tons of flood stories (greek, mesopotamian, judeo-christian, etc.), very similar creation stories, the fact that signs of religion were limited in early humans... it either meant that everythign's true and we just don't realize, or none is true (I HIGHLY doubt it's just one and nothing else), and as a rational person, I went with the former. However, just because no religion is pure fact doesn't mean there can't be a god. I just don't see any true support either way. So, yeah, agnostic.

But to play devil's advocate here (or in this case, God's advocate ), could it be that all these religions have a flood story because such an event did happen?

(Though personally I think it's because big floods happen every now and then all over the world and are big devastating events worth writing about).

I kinda babbled there a little (It's quite late =)), but I think I was clear enough. It happened gradually. Can I switch later? Well, sure. A neuatral person can switch at any time.

It's good to stay open minded to both ends... but personally I would tell myself, never to switch because of an emotion at one point or another... only with a combination of logic and human introspection & perspective. Keep in mind, religions have a heaven-hell "carrot-stick" setup to hit you at the points when you're emotionally unstable, whereas atheism doesn't, atheism just is. So keep that in mind, if you find yourself in an extreme emotional low or high, and are looking for either a justification or explanation.

The way I see it, religion (not spirituality, two completely seperate things in my book) is good as a spport/social system, as you pointed out. It gives you a very family type setting, which is good for people who are down, lonely, etc. The morals too are good. Once you start going on a homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc, rage, well, then religion becomes a disease.

Disease is close to how I think of religion - more specifically, a virus. A virus proliferates by using its host to spread and "infect". In the same manner, human "hosts" of religion think they are doing good by, say, travelling to some obscure country and converting the people.

I am still spiritual in a sense. I believe in karma, though I question the afterlife. I like the idea of reincarnation, though I still wonder about it. Etc.

out of curiosity, how would you define spirituality? The belief in a presence of some higher order or structure? The existence of another plane of reality that interfaces with ours? Some quality that differentiates humans from other organisms?

[gvg]

Unreality: Yes, I know about its contradictions. I never said it was a history book =)

And I meant the good morals. You know, don't kill, don't steal, etc.

As I said earlier, i have thought about the possibility of all of them being true. it seems highly unlikely to me.

Open-mindedness is always nice =) I know religion gets you when you're most vulnerable, but I think the real reason for this is it's promise of love, justice, community, adn acceptance. Is this good? For some, maybe. Others, yeah, probably not.

If in order to find converts you have to go to a place with no hope at all, it's not a very good religion, is it? Of course, this is what I meant: there are people who have noone else, like the poor of Africa, who finally find something in this idea of 'religion.'

Well, spirituality is not a human invention persay the way religion is. It's just a feeling inside of you, probably because of humanities needs to find things that cannot be known (i.e. life after death, etc.). It need not have a god, since I would describe Jainists as spiritual, and they have no god.

It's quite hard to describe. I say it's this: the idea of connection to the universe around you through some seperate plane of existence, as well as connection to this other plane of existence, with or without structure. Something that helps you understand things you cannot, answers those questions that cannot logically be answered otherwise.

You can have spirituality without religion, but you can only have reigion with spirituality.

Makes sense? Or no?

Edited December 19, 2010 by gvg

[tiger_lily111]

With absolutely nothing to back it up other than "I've talked to people", it seems as though everyone has a slightly different view of their religion. The major things may be the same under the religion as a whole, but then you have denominational differences, localized/cultural differences, and personal differences. And by difference, I guess I'm trying to convey shades of meaning, belief, translation, experience, etc.

I like having my version of my religion in my life, but I don't think I'd enjoy someone else's. For example, I doubt I'd be a good Baptist because I think dancing & drinking (in a safe manner) are fine. Other things I DON'T think I need to do include covering my head when I worship, spending time away from people in a tent once a month, not talking smack to my husband, and avoiding pork products. All of those are things the Bible says I should do.

And yet, I consider myself a Christian, more-or-less Presbyterian. Maybe I'm wrong & I'll end up in hell, maybe God will forgive my sins & allow me into heaven, & maybe I misunderstand Who & What He is. But I believe He's there, whether or not He micro-manages as much as we seem to think. Maybe God has multiple personalities that explain the differences seen between the many religions & denominations. And maybe Kevin Smith had it right. *shrug* Guess that's why it's faith & belief.

Keep searching, and eventually you'll find your religion. It might look like someone else's, it might be rather unique on its own. I'm actually not one of those "It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something" kind of people, but I at least respect that you have your views & I have mine. And I'm willing to accept that mine are probably not 100% correct, but I think I'll be forgiven anyway.