Evidence of God's Design

[Quag]

Sorry no reply ppl ive been sick, then work, then sick again. probably shouldnt have tried to go back to work.

ok going way way way back.

There is a scripture in the Bible that says Jesus said about the Temple of Solomon "You see all these stones here before you, I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left upon another until all be torn down". Okay, no big deal right? That temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. when Titus of Rome sacked Jerusalem. World History. That however is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Though we know it happened. If men wrote and or changed the Word or precious scriptures as you say, why then did it not read something like this, somewhere in the Bible "And just like Jesus predicted or said, in 70 a.d. Titus of Rome destroyed the Temple, burned it to the ground (and because of the amount of Gold they used in the building of it) and when they did the gold melted into cracks and crevices. Men broke even debris apart looking for gold. Not one stone left upon another." The reason it's not in there, It had not happened yet. That simple.

Hambone EDM, sorry never replied to your PMs but TBH i never checked to see if anyone had sent me any Pm's. So ill only deal with hambones longer one. First of all id love to know where exactly in the bible it says that he says that, remember i liek to read the actual source material, bit of a stickler i am. But here goes a just common sense answer. according to you scriptures were written from 50-70,75 AD. ill just accept those dates for sake of arguement. Seems easy enough to add in a line of an event happening at the time to make a prophecy seem likely. as to why not add the specific date. hmm could it be that it would sound to fake? too added after the fact? also believe it or not they didnt use our calender back then. it came in later. most dates were based on lives/reigns of kings emperors. so my answer to you is the reason the prophesy is in the scriptures is precisely because it had happened and then they were added in.

ok water bit, yup truly amazing substance, but then so many things are. how about mercury? it is a metal that is liquid at room temperature. By weird coincidence(or perhaps divine design, depending on who ya talk to) a change of 1 inch in a mercury barometer is equvalent to an change of 1000' in altitude, very handy for aviation which is why most of the world (aside from russia) uses feet and not meters for altitude. as to why none on the moon, well the lack of an atmosphere would mean that any water would disappear into space. the gravitational field of the moon is too weak to hold it. some would be caught in earths gravitational field joining our vast water reserves. oh yeah water isnt such an incredibly rare resource as you seem to think. the rings of saturn are mostly made of ice, in fact much of the stuff floating around our solar system is water.

[Guest]

Mat 24:1 ¶ And 2532 Jesus 2424 went out 1831 , and departed 4198 from 575 the temple 2411: and 2532 his 846 disciples 3101 came 4334 to [him] for to shew 1925 him 846 the buildings 3619 of the temple 2411.

Mat 24:2 And 1161 Jesus 2424 said 2036 unto them 846, See ye 991 not 3756 all 3956 these things 5023? verily 281 I say 3004 unto you 5213, There shall 863 0 not 3364 be left 863 here 5602 one stone 3037 upon 1909 another 3037, that 3739 shall 2647 0 not 3364 be thrown down 2647 .

Quote from concordance with Greek and Hebrew lexicon

Problem with your post: Jesus is quoted as saying it would happen, Then according to World History, in 70 a.d. Titus of Rome destroyed the Temple. You see it does not make sense to mention that Jesus said it would happen, then it happens, and if this was written after the Temple was destroyed you would think the next line would be "and just as Jesus said, the temple was destroyed"... Though it is not in there. Anywhere. So my point is these books were written before 70 a.d. No more the 25 years after His crucifixion.

"

[gvg]

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/ecology/mother-earth-water-the-lifeblood-of-our-planet/586

[Guest]

I read that post, all good theories I suppose. Think that the water was here before the land myself. At least thats what the Word of God says. Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Gen 1:2

[Quag]

Hambone. sorry this is where we disagree again

it SAYS that jesus SAID that. My point is that very easily someone could have added that bit in AFTER the temple was destroyed. ie. 71 AD the lines are added into the scriptures.

[Guest]

Hambone. sorry this is where we disagree again

it SAYS that jesus SAID that. My point is that very easily someone could have added that bit in AFTER the temple was destroyed. ie. 71 AD the lines are added into the scriptures.

Okay then my question is this, "Why did they not add in the scriptures (as to give validity to Jesus, because after all it was written by men to prove He was God's son) a sentence that said " Just as Jesus predicted that this would happen, it did. To further show that He was the son of God. You see what I am saying? Nowhere in scripture does it mention that the Temple He was referring to was ever destroyed. Why would they not mention at all that Jesus was right or at least mention the destruction of the Temple, when in fact the Bible mentions the two other times that it was destroyed?

[Guest]

Do you really think no-one would mention that the Temple was even destroyed again. I mean really this thing was there whole existence. Still to this day on the Temple Mount is the Dome of the Rock, and 100's of thousands of people pray outside the Western Wall to this day.

[Quag]

Yes i really think they would refrain from mentioning it was destroyed. If you want to make it look like you wrote about event "A" before Event "A" happens then you dont talk about event "A" in the past tense, only in the future tense. To do it your way would cast even more doubt upon it.

[Guest]

When do you start believing in History? At what point in the past? We could make this argument about everything written. Even things written by scientists and biologists wouldn't you agree?

[Guest]

1THE BURDEN or oracle (the thing to be lifted up) of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:

2Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup or bowl of reeling to all the peoples round about, and in the siege against Jerusalem will there also be a siege against and upon Judah.

3And in that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples; all who lift it or burden themselves with it shall be sorely wounded. And all the nations of the earth shall come and gather together against it. Zechariah 12:1-3

1BEHOLD, A day of the Lord is coming when the spoil [taken from you] shall be divided [among the victors] in the midst of you.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Zechariah 14:2

Even if your idea of the Bible being re-written in 325 a.d. you would have to think about the above verses. How would someone even think for one second that a dried up barren land in the middle of nowhere ever possibly bring so much controversy to the whole world, every nation. You can't say this is not happening now. Little old Israel and simple little Jerusalem Has the attention of the Whole world. Even Obama said on April 19th that America will not automatically stand with Israel as we have in the past.

Just a thought.

[Quag]

I believe in and have extensivly and continually studied history. that is why we disagree so much. I know that all that is written is not 100% correct. that is why historians try and take as many sources as possible to then compare them and come up with the most likely answer as what probably happened. sometimes there is only one source sometimes more. sometimes a second source is indirect.

I'll give an example, The battle of theropylae. The numbers involved vary depending on which source you use. the persians were estimated at between 70K and a over 2.5 million. the greeks between roughly 5k to over 10k. Now fairly obvious that at the time it would be impossible for there to be several million persians. the population of persia at the time and logistics available would perclude it (that is an indirect source, logic says the upper number doesnt work). so that brings the number down, but still the numbers are in dispute. what isnt in dispute is that a small number of greeks withstood the immensly larger Persian army for several days.

The closer we get to present time the more different sources there are, making for a more accurate picture. the invention of the printing press greatly increasing the number of copies of documents thus giving a greater chance at least 1 would survive.

As to scientist or biologists, not sure what ya mean by scientists, basically a biologost is a scientist so ill just say scientists as globaly encompassing all the sciences including biology. Well the stuff they write can ,and is put to the test all the time. that is the point of science, to not take for granted, but to continually put their ideas to the test. That is why science experiments are conducted by every student from elementary to post graduate school. It is not just to read what someone said and take that as the truth, but to put it to the test and let the student actually see if what they have been told or think, holds up.

as to the verses you quoted yes i can say that EVERY nation is not against isreal. in fact untill every nation is, your quotes cannot be used at all. and of course the people who wrote the bible were concerned about the middle east. that is where they were from. now if they talked about hiroshima or nagasaki that would be impressive. It also seems to me that there is a huge amount of the worlds attention on Iraq and Afghanistan. not tooo tooo far away globaly speaking but not part of judea at any point in history. there is also Somalia, Tibet, Georgia, North Korea, Iran, they are also getting much of the worlds attention. Explain why that is not in the bible? i can easily, i just did, the people who wrote it were not from there.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Quag

[Guest]

We could go back and forth for days, I guess the real thing is you believe with what you have and what you have studied and what you have been told and shown. I am the same way just that I believe the Word of God to be true. When all nations come against Jerusalem to battle and Jerusalem is the key. Remember that this was written, according to your studies, about 2000 years ago. Ezekiel 37 and chapter 38 are also very interesting and have not happened yet. Not trying to change your mind on how you believe, never have been, read first post.

[Quag]

Yes i think we can agree to disagree. the central point behind my posts is that there is no evidence either way. I mean, if different people can use the same "evidence" for opposite conclusions i dont think we can call it evidence.

once again i proudly stand on the fence and state boldly that i dont know if god exists or not. but dont worry its a broad fence i dont think ill fall off.

[Guest]

Evidence is a funny thing, like biologists who say "this is 4.7 billion years old based on what we think to be evidence" or because this outcrop of rocks is shaped like this it proves that" I get that it can go both ways. I do think however that God is smart enough to know things like this would take place, and if there was absolute proof we would not need any faith. Faith is very important to God. Look if you ever need prayer for anything I got the hook-up, I know God!

[Guest]

very interesting link Edited July 24, 2010 by hambone

[andromeda]

very interesting link

:lol: This belongs to the Jokes Forum...

[Guest]

A theist would argue that God works in mysterious ways.

This basically means that God decides what happens to you and everyone else, you have no power to decide anything.

A theist would argue that God had given us a free will.

This basically says that we can do whatever we want during our lifetime, but based of off that we will be judged in afterlife. This directly contradicts the God works part.

Biologically, our survival instinct is driving us to gasp for every breath that we can take.

It's an evolutionary trait the way for the DNA (the true master of all life that there is an ever will be) to insure it's survival and continuance.

EDIT: Hahah... I've never noticed this before but if you fill in the blanks _D_N_A you get my real name

Off course it means nothing

The million dollar question is: Why would God had given us survival instinct if there's afterlife?!

Awesome post.

This basically means that God decides what happens to you and everyone else, you have no power to decide anything.

Thats a valid point It just feels too " aligned with probability" . Better yet it's too closely defined with chance.

God decides to bless one person out of a 1000, that one person praises God for his help.

In the probability world, in a given scenario ( say a lottery ticket raffle) there is only 1 winner out of a 1000 entries. Again, very similar to chance ! However, both can be valid which as cliche as it sounds has your conviction of which to choose based off "faith"

This basically says that we can do whatever we want during our lifetime, but based of off that we will be judged in afterlife. This directly contradicts the God works part.

Another good point but let me give you a scenario as I'd love to hear your input.

Say 2 parents which are sick and twisted in the head have a baby named Bill.

Now Bill ( whatever theory you believe, rationalism, determinism's ) Is raised to be this killer. This sadistic, torturing killer of a beast. He has no choice, since birth his parents convinced him that killing was "good" that it was prosperous and rightful.

Now Bill thinks killing is as normal as you and I breathing. . We don't think twice about it, its a natural habit formed and strengthen deep without our brain and CNS. We don't question it nor give it any special attention other than executing its function.

How will Bill be judged? Say he murdered 100's of people. Is Bill innocent ?

[gvg]

That's a type of insanity, so I think Bill's innocent. He had no control over this particular belief.

[Guest]

All sins are forgivable, there is not one sin that is greater than another. Sin in sin to God. There is only one sin that is unforgivable. That is to not accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Remember the thief on the cross was a murderer, he was forgiven.

[unreality]

very interesting link

:lol: You made my day with that link! I hope it's not supposed to be serious. I also hope you've read fully what you just linked to

[Guest]

That's not what I linked to. What I saw was on , Radiometric Dating, had no colors. After looking at that link, that is not what was intended to go up. Just learning how to link sites and that one got messed. Think I copied and pasted wrong one by accident.

If your still interested I'll look for it and try again.

[Guest]

Sorry, try this one different link.

[Guest]

took unreality's advice and went back to read what it was that I linked to, other than the fact that its written in rainbow and for I think 3rd grade I have to say that site is Huge I hope you didn't read it all. From what I did look at however (other that the homo-sexual overtones of rainbow writing)(not that I would judge anyone on that) It seams to be scriptural. Just for 3rd grade I checked that new link, that is what was supposed to go up the first time. Though it is a Christian site, but hey you should expect that coming from a Christian.

[gvg]

Well, from what I've heard, they measured many different rocks and came up with 4.5 bil. years.

If what you linked to is true, explain the age of dinosaur bones? I'm pretty sure they date carbon with those, thus no helium (I could be wrong, of course)

[Guest]

very good point and just know that I have thought about things just like this, but remember when I went to school they still said the pledge of allegiance. Had just started teaching about evolution and removed God and prayer from school. Now want God out of courts, off our money and if they had everything they wanted God would be removed entirely. That is not what our founding fathers had in mind. What if the dinosaurs died in the Great Flood? Keep in mind evidence of the flood was found in writings all over the world. In many different continents and cultures. What if anything to disprove God?