Brandonb

did the cheetah kill the horse?

LOL, yeah. I guess I'm not the only one who has done this scenario game before. Well this post ended quickly.

lol, I was lost till I read the hardware store park again.

is the cheetah also dead?

Forgive me if you already know the answer, I heard this a long time ago. Though there are many answers for the given situation, there is only one answer that I will accept. I have plenty of hints to give. There is a man, in a chair, in a cabin, in the middle of the woods. He is dead. How did he get there? / How did he die? You may ask any yes or no questions (ex. about the environment around him?) to get more information. Do not use a spoiler unless you are making a guess.

Exactly, he did not overtake 1st and 2nd during the race, he never overtakes them at all. It is written in the present tense for a reason. The OP is taken from the event as it is happening. (We must have had a misunderstanding on post #14, it makes no difference if he passed them after they had finished, the race would be over for billy at the point that he crossed the finish line and therefore irrelevant.) Exactly, "The assumption then became that all participants were overtaken while the race was still going on." Is exactly the right assumption. So, if he never made it past third, yet he passed everyone in the race, then 1st and 2nd could no longer be participants. I never said that he passed everyone during the race, I said he passed everyone in the race, that's the catch. Again, think of the "as it's happening" situation: (this is not the OP, just the interpretation) Billy is in last, Billy passes everyone in the race except for 1st 2nd and 3rd. Then 1st and 2nd cross the finish line (they are done and no longer in the race). Now, take a photo. *Billy has passed everyone in the race except for the guy in 3rd.* The OP works this way, and no other way.

Sorry, but that's wrong, you said "He wasn't even in the race!" not "He isn't even in the race!" Obviously, he WAS in the race because he won the race (satisfying the OP). But he IS not in the race now when you are trying to collect your money, because he has finished the race. Yes, inside the box. Again, the only scenario that is possible, is if: Billy (last place) catches up to 4th place, and 3rd place is in front of him, and 1st&2nd have finished the race (Finished-End-Over-not racing-not in the race anymore) So #3 could not win, because 1st&2nd have already locked in their finished standings. It's a normal race here.

If first and second finished, they are in the race? Tell me how? A race does not consist of someone finishing, then racing on in hopes of.... nothing. They are no longer in the race, they can lay down on the ground if they want to. They are no longer competing, they are no longer in the race. It's plain, simple and accurate. Sure, they would have been in the race to start. But by my logic, I had to say that he overtakes everyone in the race except 3rd. At the point that Billy passed everyone, the only person still in front of him that was in the race and he could not pass was the 3rd runner. It is impossible for this to play out any other way, it is the only option from the information given. There IS a reason to single out the 3rd place runner. -That is what makes the riddle... you concentrate so hard on how he passes 1st and 2nd, when it is actually just plain impossible. *You are watching a race, the guy in last place catches up to 4th place and the 1st and 2nd place guys have finished* That is the scenario of OP, straight forward. Like I said, Inside the box.

FINE, I guess it is technically tomorrow where I am, so I will give you the answer. OP- Billy is racing in the Olympic 400m dash and is in last place (8th). Billy overtakes everyone in the race, except for the guy in third place. What place is Billy in now? why? The logic is solid. It's the 1 solution that fits the OP.

Take the OP as the order in which the events occurred. In this argument that you present, the 3rd place is now in 1st. Billy never makes it past 4th place. Keep trying.

This is essentially the same as what Toddpeak suggested, with the only difference being that I didn't assume that Billy made it up to 2nd place at any time. And based on the criteria you provided, Todd's statement that he could be in any position greater than 4 makes perfect sense as well. I'm curious how your answer will differ. Wrong, just wrong. You are assuming that there is something wrong in the OP, there is not. The only thing anywhere close is that I have an order of events presented in the present tense. You are still assuming things that are logically impossible.

OK the answer for what position he is in is.... Keep trying to figure out why/how I'll post that answer tomorrow!

haha, but does it??? think again. Logic... if, then...

as itachi-san said...

Not quite... That's the rub... Billy never passes the guy in 3rd place. The guy in third place is in third place, he is not first or second or anything else.

I see what you mean, my context is a little off. But in the answer that I'm looking for he can't be in eighth, maybe I should have clarified that he was in last place (8th), then he overtakes everyone...

Earlier post....

Ah, I see what you mean. But that would mean that everyone had overtaken Billy. Not that Billy had overtaken everyone. Also, that means the guy in 3rd would then be in 7th

I don't quite follow. Where would the 1st and 2nd place guys be? And if Billy was to the right of the 3rd place guy, wouldn't that make him 4th, not last?