araver

Very nice riddle

@Darth Legion - Not trying to influence you, but someone has to say it: (1) waiting for an inactive is not usually good. You end the night without their action and replace the inactive with a backup or not. Waiting on inactives is a passive form of encouraging it. (2) the fact that you told us you're waiting for Fett to choose sides is actually very bad. People can't stop themselves metagame who was inactive enough to not choose sides on time. I know I can't. And Fett is a crucial role, so narrowing it down due to metagaming kinda spoils the balance. In my opinion, you should have randomed the side Fett joins and hidden the whole incident. Either way, never tell things like that in the thread. They give away too much information.

EDIT: spelling.

Agree,

Agree with Molly Mae, 9 vs 5 vs 1 with a spy + 2 RID kills looks to favor the baddies the most right now. And it is hard to judge how the 2 RID's kills tip the balance during the game: - See normally if you add something (let's say a "TRICK" = one or more abilities/btsc. For lack of a better term.) to a faction - for example, made goodie RID kill and spy work together somehow, the balance may look good with the trick. Till the key component of the added trick dies (the goodie RID Kill in this case). Your added "TRICK" is dependent on one (or more persons). - but you made the RID Kill inheritable among baddies, so that "TRICK" is very persistent. And as the game progresses RID Kills increase in efficiency (since information is gained). So it's very hard to say how many "TRICKS" or people need to be added to the goodies to balance the inheritance RID Kill(s). But I like the idea, so please keep it (I don't know if it's been attempted before) and we'll get to field-test and see how it works. Now, the one part that counterbalances the inheritance (or at least I think it was meant to) is this: "Vulnerable to archnemesis - Action fails and trapped next night even if RID is wrong." But I don't really get what it does. E.g. Elmer is vulnerable if he targets Bugs? In what way is Elmer's action a failure or Elmer trapped? And what does "even if RID is wrong mean?".

Please STOP resurrecting this thread. Could someone (admin/moderator) please lock this thread until / if Pablos4pandas returns?

EDIT: formatting and some typos.

No,

Well,

*cough* *cough*

I have no problem with the vote manipulator. Except I don't expect to survive long enough to use it EDIT: Scratch that, just saw "cannot be killed at night, can make a vote count 0x 1x or 2x". Yeah, I would definitely want that

@Skyenet - Not sure how in which order you followed the clues. However I think both your solutions break clue no. 6 As I said

In this case, NK needs to have a carrier (since it can be blocked and redirected) which is fine. And traps are slightly weaker than usual (usually traps act as a block and a save combined - it both blocks the target and protect it from outer-interferences). If I were you, I'd simply switch trap and block: trap > spy > save > redirect > night kill > block > kill > vote manipulation with these effects/differences: - the (goodie) trap is now able to prevent the NK by trapping the NK carrier - the goodie block can no longer stop the NK - the (goodie) trap can now act a save if played on the NK target (ONLY IF you specify this - but usually that's a difference between "block" and "trap") - the baddie block is still able to prevent a goodie kill (and does not interfere with the baddie NK) - out of {trap, block} exactly one is still redirectable Also, I did not ask and the 24 hours in the description might have mislead me ("in making people disappear and they are often not found for 24 hours, trap"). Is the trap intended to work only in the night or does it extend to the next day (where the trapped cannot vote or be voted for)?

Yeah, what Maurice said I'm not trying to change your order (there is no "better") just trying to understand if this is the effect you intended. It's yours to tweak as you please Also, on a related note (and I can't show you and external link atm unfortunately) people understand "Order of actions" differently. We're still trying to completely label them to avoid confusion, but until that is encompass in the Guide to Mafia, here's the short discussion (leaving a lot of details aside): There are two key words used in the past "precedence" and "order of". I'm gonna list the extreme POVs only: (1) To some (me and Molly included), ORDER suggests a mathematical order ( extreme POV: a turn-based/ chronological order or as executing instructions in a priority queue). E.g. actions are "executed" in the order of actions "block > kill > redirect > spy" means: - blocks are executed first (so they can block a spy or a kill or a redirect the blocked target intended) - afterwards non-blocked kills are executed (preventing any redirect/spy the dead target intended) - afterwards redirects are played ( which therefore cannot affect blocks or kills which come before) - afterwards spies (if the spy was not blocked/killed before) Finer grains can be obtained by using two types of order ">" or ">>" to catch for e.g. block >> redirect - a redirect cannot ever affect a block block > redirect - a block can stop a redirecter from acting, BUT the redirecter can affect a blocker that is not targeting him. There are a lot of ordered universes possible FROM extreme=purely chronological= only >> TO some in between = some relations are >> but most are > (allowing an action with less priority to affect an action with higher priority if that action does not target the origin of lesser action - e.g. above). (2)PRECEDENCE of actions (maurice, GMaster and others) Basically all actions happen at the same time, and the precedence ONLY comes into play if actions affect each other and cause a loop that needs to be broken: E.g. block > redirect is called ONLY when loops occur such as "A tries to block B and B tries to redirect A to C", giving precedence to the block so that B is blocked before acting. There are other PRECEDENCE-based universes (GM's ) which I still can't grasp completely because of some weird stuff that is not representable even as a partial order (it does not even give a planar graph so that I can represent it nicely). I'm more biased toward the (1), but I've seen very good programmers (such as dawh/SH) biased towards (2) because of the real-time analogy. Anyway, the choice is yours, just need to tell others somehow so that they are on the same page (while they interpret the night-post) P.S: Maurice and I have a nice example (from Tombstone) on how different universes work, but that will have to wait till we can post it properly. EDITS: typos and stuff.

Yup, it's better to leave him out as Aaryan's warning (from IRL talks) is probably all we're gonna get. Host: Darth Legion 1: Araver 2: Vineetrika 3: Hirkala 4: maurice 5: young 6: MiKi 7: Segul 8: curr3nt 9: Aaryan 10: Shadow7 11: 12: sayalzah 13: Framm 14: Lionheart 15: golfjunkie 16: 17: Blablah 18: firno Backups: 1: Molly Mae 2: 3:

I did not have a suggestion per se, just questions so far regarding "block > spy > night kill > save > redirect > trap > kill > vote manipulation" If this is the way you want it i.e. the intended effect, no problem. Just wanted to make clear what I find a little weird: 1) If you trap someone, he can still NK, save, redirect and all the other actions ? This means that a trap is basically useless except to stop the goodie kill. Just saying that a goodie trap only stopping goodie kills is ... kinda weird. If you had given that trap ability to the baddies, it would have made some sense to me, but now it just looks like the goodie trapper is better off not acting for fear of interfering with goodie kills. 2) Saves don't protect from a NK, yet the NK can be blocked? This is a little weird: the NK being able to be blocked means it has to be carried out by a specific baddie. And basically the save role is the one usually counteracting the NK (Even if it is a group kill). In your current order, the save helps only save from goodie kills, which again, makes that role a shot in the dark which might likely interfere with goodie kills only and has no real benefit for the goodies. And I agree with Molly Mae, it's very hard for the Indy (without a RID Kill at least if not a kill) to win this. The last standing WinCon usually asks for either powerful Indy abilities or a bigger Indy faction (in numbers). Ways out of this: as Molly suggested (one of the last 3 standing), or a secret WinCon (like choosing and winning with a side), or give him a kill (and Last Standing) or a RID kill (and change WinCon to taking a number of targets out, even if he dies while RID killing the last target). About the roll action - choice=kill in later nights (and usually spy in the first night). So giving the roll 2 possible kills affects the balance a lot in favor of the goodies (see Molly Mae's actions in Tombstone, he had 2 different rolls used as kills). Giving only 1 kill (as original stated by you) would make it more balanced in my opinion. Also, try to play a game (actually several) by assigning random actions to each player You'll get: - a good feeling and experience on how actions interact / clash and will anticipate this before the actual hosting. - a good feeling on the overall balance (e.g. even playing Indy's action as optimal and others as random, I would still not see a Indy win happening). EDIT: Grammar and stuff...

There's a separate forum called Homework Help if you want someone to point you in the right direction (without spoiling the fun). In the spirit of that forum:

and it got recorded in the History of Mafia ... (while his victims araver and onetruth still grumble in the Ghost thread )

I would like an impartial observer (Framm or maurice) to join so that you don't tell them who to kill N1 and stuff Other than that, welcome back LH

Reposting Roster since Tombstone is over. With ??? for thingamajigi from what Aaryan said. Host: Darth Legion 1: Araver 2: Vineetrika 3: Hirkala 4: maurice 5: young 6: MiKi 7: Segul 8: curr3nt 9: Aaryan 10: Shadow7 11: thingamajigi ??? 12: sayalzah 13: Framm 14: 15: 16: 17: Blablah 18: firno Backups: 1: Molly Mae 2: 3: @Darth Legion - I understand you would be anxious to host this. However, I would recommend that you keep it open for at least one day before cutting the roles, there are still a few who played Tombstone and did not signup for this. Yet

Well, good game goodies. I'll be fair and say you did win the game through your actions @OT, Vine, Slick, Oboe - don't be sorry, the Cowboys will rise again ... someday. I'm glad we had a chance to stand on the same side of the OK Corral, short as that stand was for me Sorry Vine to drag you into this ... but that was our only chance. @Hirk, sorry for accidentally outing you, if I could, I would take it back instantly. I had pegged you for someone else, someone who I could safely flash-vote to save myself. Having a hidden Indy around could have really helped confuse some lynches and make a Baddie or Indy win more likely. @Maurice, awesome story I was not a fan of the era / movie, so most of it was completely new to me

There is no deadline. When it fills, and the current Mafia is over, then we can start it.

Just select the text you want to color and hit the button next to Sizes - it will color the whole text. Or alternatively [color=red]write these tags before and after[/color] to get a red text. Indy vote manip should be stated clearly (as well as if he can manipulate ANY vote or just his OWN). Less confusion that way. Question regarding Indy WinCon is still open: is his wincon to be the last standing?