araver
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Everything posted by araver
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Gregor: Nischal did steal food Gregor got back from the cave. And stealing food from a cook, well, let's say that's serious crime But Nischal has a point ... Gregor needs to find another ghost around here. The one that dragged Gregor up the caves and got him addicted to lower grade stuff. Saaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeee! I'm whooping you this time. 400 years and all. You could at least left me with some high-grade stuff.
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Gregor: Gregor's memory is not what it used to be. And don't spin the whole food stealing on trying to get Gregor on a better diet, cause that won't work Gregor thinks we need to find a ghost thread to split hairs on that whole backstabbing issue
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Gregor: Gregor had no clear goal. So Gregor is happy with the journey. That makes sense, yes? Gregor also found a morale for the story: If one wants to encrypt a message on a staircase/whatever, one must not start with "Do not" unless one really wants it to be misleading Also, Gregor is amazed that Nischal backstabbed him (how much times counting this one? one, two, three...) Big thanks to Unreality for hosting this game EDIT: Ok, that's big enough
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Sorry, Hirk but you claiming Indy AND siding with goodies AFTER you've been outed kinda proves my point. I don't trust Indies. Backstabbed too often for that. You had a whole day to hint at that. And most of the night to admit to being the Indy. Doing it now, I don't think anyone is going to A) Believe you and B)Change their action. Except possibly baddies. And you're not exactly arguing your case for them either by claiming you chose the goodies. *shrug*
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Adding another example. 148 ||| 82 = 130 45 ||| 11 = 36 67 ||| 55 = 16 37 ||| 177 = 154 64 ||| 151 = 115 57 ||| 39 = 80 16 ||| 36 = 22 65 ||| 85 = 22 10 ||| 16 = 8 ------------ 66 ||| 23 = ?
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Hi Wilson No, sorry, that's not the answer.
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@curr3nt - you assumption on Slick being Ike is worth a block or a trap. However I need to point it to you that Ike could simply not act and frame slick with that. So some good strategies on paper can still lead to unavoidable WIFOM later in the game. Please try to think and incorporate baddies responses in your strategies.
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@curr3nt - You're new to Mafia so maybe that needed to more explaining *shrug* You have shown potential with proposing goodie strategy and analyze the roles, but you're not very good on reading hints. If you had read some older Mafias, you would have got why I expected that Usually in a Mafia, when 2 players are in a tie, the day-post shows player names (I always did that when hosting) e.g. Day 1 people starting voicing accusations...bla bla ... [Player 1] and [Player 2] were brought forward ... [Player 2] died ... [Player2 Role] is dead. So usually day-post lets you know which players (not roles) were in the tie. For this particular Mafia, knowing X and Hirkala were tied actually outs X as Ike (since Hirk had 2 votes on the roster on him). Hence, my assumption that voting for Hirk will out Ike's name in the day-post anyway (or if the daypost showed no tie, remaining candidates for Ike would be those with no vote on D1). EDIT: nevermind, Glyc already explained it.
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Suit yourself. I have been told in the past that I post too much logical arguments and make exhaustive proofs (hard to read). Can't help myself, this is who I am. If there is a logical explanation, no matter how long it will take me to get others to see it, I will still try to make it. I always assumed BrainDen attracts the kind of people that can verify logical arguments *shrug* Again, key-point is the fact Hirk was not outed in the day-post. This alone is proof that he is neither baddie nor goodie since neither can save someone from a lynch and prevent him from being outed. And Hirk was blocked last night. Which means it's either a passive ability (invulnerability) or an ability which takes precedence over blocking (which I doubt, but would still make sense if baddies redirected him to himself). So, from my point of view, Hirk is outed as the Indy - and at least one of his abilities is also outed. No idea on his WinCon. I don't expect to live much longer after this, but I think it was worth the price. PS: The only unfortunate downside to my move is that I kinda expected Ike to be outed by the day-post as being in the tie.
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@curr3nt - I'm not saying Hirkala was redirected to himself by the baddies. I'm assuming Hirkala was redirected to himself by the baddies. Self-redirects are the most likely. You don't have to take my word for that. Look at it from a neutral PoV (or your point of view): 1. Assume Hirk is a goodie or the indy. Baddies don't know what is Hirk's ability. They sure as hell won't redirect him to another baddie. Least worries: redirect to himself and see the result - depending if he appears in the night-post or not you narrow down his abilities. Best case: Hirk is Masters you'll see someone trap Hirk and you'll know who to RID Recruit. 2. Assume Hirk is a baddie. Why redirect him to someone else? - A redirecter(Curly) can't be redirected to himself with visible consequences in the night-post. He can redirect himself to someone else, but that would create some weird loops and actually not get anyone redirected in the process. - A spy/RID Recruit (Johnny) redirected to someone else makes some sense, but also means a redirect lost and not a very clear cover for Hirk to be a goodie. - A baddie block (Ike) redirected to himself is kinda revealing in the night-post (and we know that did not happen). Also, a tie means Hirk is not Ike. - A baddie vote manipulator (Billy) redirected to anyone is basically the same as above - redirect lost and not a very clear cover for Hirk. Again, nothing in the redirect, the block or the night-post explain why Hirk was no outed.
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@Curr3nt - after a few Mafias, if you get paranoid enough, you know that the word "secret" is worst nightmare a Mafia player can have. You can make assumptions about it, but you cannot really know until it comes around and it bites you. There are two types of secrets: WinCons and abilities. Secret Wincons are the absolute worst, since you get to second guess your every move and everything an Indy says. And if outed and backed in a corner, Indies usually usually lie about their WinCons and convince one side they've got compatible WinCons. That rarely works and mostly leads to Indy wins. We've got two secrets in this game - both Indy WinCon and Indy ability. I'm pretty sure the Indy ability involves somehow around being invulnerable to lynch (since Hirk was clearly not saved by the Actress). Last night, Hirk was redirected to himself and blocked. There is no way to understand him not being outed unless he has an unblockable (passive) ability that makes him invulnerable to shootings at the OK Corral. And he might have other secret abilities as well. I decided not to wait and find out. Plus, waiting can be part of his WinCon, while dying can't be part of his WinCon (he would have claimed Indy and said shoot me in N1 if that was so). @Texas Jack and the Baddies - Is that good enough for you? Or do you want to let him live and find out if he has more abilities? @Marshall White, Masters and Morgan Earp - I have to ask you all not to interfere. Don't try to save him. If anyone has a better suggestion, please tell. I can't think of anything else.
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@Glyc - I did not prevent a sure baddie lynch (since we had an inactive it was an almost sure baddie lynch, but that's not the point). As some of you might have observed, curr3nt's plan to lynch Ike can work on any day, not just D1. Now, re-read the role descriptions and think who is not so easy to find and kill. @Hirk - That was not a venge kill. And we could argue about it being a cheapshot. I don't know, telling others and relying on them to do the right thing has not worked for me in the past. But here goes: @Texas Jack and / or Baddies - I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that Hirk is invulnerable to lynches. Can you take him out for us?
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The night-post is not what I expected: - The tie between Hirk and Ike was very probable (unless Glyc or benjer were Ike). - Hirk losing the tie over Ike had a 50% probability - Hirk surviving that lynch was ... completely unexpected. I don't want to disclose my motives during the night. But I would suggest for Texas Jack to not act until he understands why Hirk was not outed.
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Fixed time. Previously announced by host. EDIT: in this case 7:00 PM EST
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@curr3nt - I believe day ended at 7 PM EST. Your post is at 7:06 PM EST. So, technically it does not count.
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Host: maurice 1. Blablah - dead, outdrawn by Johnny Ringo 2. MollyMae - shooting @ OboePassion 3. Oboe Passion - shooting @ Hirkala 4. Hirkala - shooting @ curr3nt 5. curr3nt - shooting @ slick 6. slick - shooting @ onetruth 7. onetruth - shooting @ Vine 8. Vineetrika - shooting @ Panther 9. Panther - shooting @ benjer 10. benjer 11. EDM - shooting @ Araver 12. Araver - shooting @ Hirkala 13. Glycereine - shooting @ young scientist 14. young - shooting @ MollyMae
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Fine, we'll go with the plan. Host: maurice 1. Blablah - dead, outdrawn by Johnny Ringo 2. MollyMae 3. Oboe Passion 4. Hirkala 5. curr3nt - shooting @ slick 6. slick 7. onetruth 8. Vineetrika 9. Panther 10. benjer 11. EDM 12. Araver - shooting @ Glycereine 13. Glycereine - shooting @ young scientist 14. young There are other things can interfere with that plan - hope Doc chooses his list carefully, otherwise we don't find anything.
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Your strategy works on paper. What you missed is: A) Inactives. B) People that will claim they didn't read this. C) People that will claim they read this and did not trust it/you. Something like this has actually been proposed before, I remember reading about it in a Mafia (very long time ago). It did not work then either (I think because of A,B,C above. Mostly A and C if I remember correctly. But it was closer to end-game.). And it's a perfect example of why mounting an operation such as this will make most players suspicious of you or at least not willing to take part in this (it happened to me in an early game). Try it and see who follows it. My guess is probably you'll get the Indy and at least one of the Baddies following suit.
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I haven't seen that Movie in a while, but the speaker is dead the next second, right?
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@curr3nt - chapter VIII contains WIFOM (among others). Also, chapter V - "Don't assert that you're Innocent without backing it up". And yes to both: Mafia is about mind-games (among other things) But some mind-games can get you killed sooner. And WIFOM is usually best be avoided. Chances of staying alive N1/D1 are actually bigger/best if you seem inactive (i.e. not say anything at least): - Baddies don't target inactives (why should they, since inactives might not come in and vote or might not submit a goodie night action) - Goodies don't turn on inactives early in the game (since they look inactive and might not provide a defense, and you end up lynching an inactive goodie by mistake). EDIT: Grammar
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@curr3nt - Don't get me wrong. Talking is good during the game (both for goodies - reasons you said - and for baddies - pretending/claiming to be a goodie and encouraging conversation = picking up information). But, during N1, with no information available, talking just leads to mind-games, WIFOM. And these mind-games have a nasty habit of turning against the one starting them.
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OK, let me try to make it even a more general setting - assume both gatekeepers are either liars or truth-tellers (so they can both be liars, both truth-tellers, or one a liar and one a truth-teller). Then
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Updated Mafia queue.
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Host: Darth Legion 1: Araver 2: 3: 4: 5: 6: 7: 8: 9: 10: 11: 12: 13: 14: 15: 16: 17: 18: Backups: 1: 2: 3: Question: Isn't the order supposed to be the other way around? save > RIDkill > protect > trap > kill > vote_manipulation (>spy?)
