Quag

NIFTY

gvg, Jimmy Carter had very high rates and a major recession as well. I dont think the taxation rate was a major facor then or now. As for canadian tax rates well thats a good one here in quebec we have federal and provincial, and their calculations on the income arent the same. example I always make more money as far as Quebec is concerened than i do according to the federal govt. but here goes this is federal 15% on the first $41,544 of taxable income, + 22% on the next $41,544 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $41,544 and $83,088), + 26% on the next $45,712 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $83,088 and $128,800), + 29% of taxable income over $128,800. this is provincial (quebec only other provinces have other rates) 0 - $39,060 16% $39,060 -$78,120 20% $78,120 - 24% basically top bracket is over 50% but working it out exactly is a pain in the a** lets just say there is lots. We also have sales tax both provincial and federal, provincial is applied on top of federal. For the record I beleive our rates are too high

GVG you seem to be inferring that the taxation rate has something to do with the recession. I have to disagree with this. It seems to me that the real estate bubble, that burst with rising interest rates and the over indebtedness of the average american was the main cause. We had no bubble here in canada and were relatively untouched by the recession. I do not know what the "ideal" taxation rate should be but like in most other things the extremes 0% or 100% taxation will lead to disaster. I believe that rate would be the one that would let the govt work effectively as long as they did it efficiently. I do not think anyone knows what that should be and govts are still grappling with the effective and the efficient parts.

Come on UTF defend your premise! *repost* 5th time UTF are you afraid of the implications of replying to me? ok lets try this, please answer these questions: 1. Are municipalities responsible for water/sanitation and the majority of roads as well as other services? 2. Do the citizens of these municipalities recieve the benefits of these services? 3. By their nature is it impossible to avoid these benefits if you live in the municipality? 4. Do Municipalities raise most of their income through property taxes? 5. Does much of the North America exist outside of municipal boundaries? 6. Are these areas thus exempt from property taxes? 7. Are you free to choose where in North America you live? Now for you to disagree with me you must say NO to one of these questions, please inform me which one it is and why, Then I can begin to try and understand where you are coming from. Where in any of my posts have I said it was ok to steal? You keep saying taxation is theft. Please read the 5th repost of mine and tell me where I am wrong. Please dont come up with another silly water/computer/slave analogy that has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. You made a claim that I and many others consider absurd ie taxation = theft/violence/slavery. now I have tried to point out where your logic falls apart and instead of answering me you just come up with one false analogy after another. My analogy of the bar with the 2 drink minimum you dismissed without refuting, my pointing out that you can move was replied with the silly Martian post which again I have refuted and again you ignore. It almost seems as though you are so indoctinated in your philosophical almost religous belief that taxation=theft/violence/slavery that you cannot even look at the possibility of it not being true. Instead of assesing and refuting or agreeing with other points of view, you keep restating in a different way your own convictions. Now if you could try and come up with a LOGICAL arguement againt my point of view, I may not agree but at least eventually we could agree to disagree. Instead you insist on ignoring what I say, then claim I said something else that fits in with your own point of view. That is not having a logical, reasoned discussion. I will ask again, will you reply to my post?

WORLD

JUICED if 2 than S is last as JUICES=3

PILLOW

BLUE

CRINGE

curr3nt, youi have been training at Maurice's dojo I see MM i was just trying to find a way to prove the S didnt expect 5 letters! ok EXPECT

STABLE

ZYGOTE

DEVOTE if 1 than E is last as DiVOTs =0= rElief

His heart was jelly, all soft and squishy

GREAT

BLED

MASTER if 1 than A is 2nd as MISTER =0 only change I/A

Come on UTF defend your premise! *repost* 4th time UTF are you afraid of the implications of replying to me? ok lets try this, please answer these questions: 1. Are municipalities responsible for water/sanitation and the majority of roads as well as other services? 2. Do the citizens of these municipalities recieve the benefits of these services? 3. By their nature is it impossible to avoid these benefits if you live in the municipality? 4. Do Municipalities raise most of their income through property taxes? 5. Does much of the North America exist outside of municipal boundaries? 6. Are these areas thus exempt from property taxes? 7. Are you free to choose where in North America you live? Now for you to disagree with me you must say NO to one of these questions, please inform me which one it is and why, Then I can begin to try and understand where you are coming from.

Come on UTF defend your premise! *repost* ok lets try this, please answer these questions: 1. Are municipalities responsible for water/sanitation and the majority of roads as well as other services? 2. Do the citizens of these municipalities recieve the benefits of these services? 3. By their nature is it impossible to avoid these benefits if you live in the municipality? 4. Do Municipalities raise most of their income through property taxes? 5. Does much of the North America exist outside of municipal boundaries? 6. Are these areas thus exempt from property taxes? 7. Are you free to choose where in North America you live? Now for you to disagree with me you must say NO to one of these questions, please inform me which one it is and why, Then I can begin to try and understand where you are coming from.

I gotta give it to Molly Mae, youre up

*repost* ok lets try this, please answer these questions: 1. Are municipalities responsible for water/sanitation and the majority of roads as well as other services? 2. Do the citizens of these municipalities recieve the benefits of these services? 3. By their nature is it impossible to avoid these benefits if you live in the municipality? 4. Do Municipalities raise most of their income through property taxes? 5. Does much of the North America exist outside of municipal boundaries? 6. Are these areas thus exempt from property taxes? 7. Are you free to choose where in North America you live? Now for you to disagree with me you must say NO to one of these questions, please inform me which one it is and why, Then I can begin to try and understand where you are coming from.

Oops didnt realize it was me ok umm.... He's like a rock.... (figure you can go positive or negative with this one)

Now you are just trying act like you don't understand, you know thats not what i was talking about ok lets try this, please answer these questions: 1. Are municipalities responsible for water/sanitation and the majority of roads as well as other services? 2. Do the citizens of these municipalities recieve the benefits of these services? 3. By their nature is it impossible to avoid these benefits if you live in the municipality? 4. Do Municipalities raise most of their income through property taxes? 5. Does much of the North America exist outside of municipal boundaries? 6. Are these areas thus exempt from property taxes? 7. Are you free to choose where in North America you live? Now for you to disagree with me you must say NO to one of these questions, please inform me which one it is and why, Then I can begin to try and understand where you are coming from.

SEND if 2 than SE is correct as WIND=0

Unreality do not feed his delusions that taxation = theft = violence = slavery. I know absolutely nothing in his preset program will work and you want to get past the taxation thing to point out the folly of his ideas, but his ideas are based on the presumption that taxation is violence/theft/slavery. If we can make him see reason on this all the rest is moot as he will have to concede it is based on a lie. What difference will time make? All I see is that it will give the criminals more time to set up their Private security firms. Which by the way will only provide “justice” to those who can pay thus making all the poor people have no access to justice? Is this fair or right? How will letting people take advantage in any way of the poor create a less violent society? Now I’m not a huge US history guy but you do realize the civil war was not started over the slavery issue don’t you? Lincoln freed the slaves as a political/military tactic, and got much flack about it from those still in the Union. Wow nothing in there is even close to being correct. The Russians did not like Stalinism but they were given state controlled media that told them the Americans were bad and evil. As they had no way of learning anything about the outside world and most loved their country if not their govt they had little choice but to accept it. Why do you think there were so many people who tried to get over/under/through the Berlin wall? And so many people who try to escape Castro’s Cuba? And almost nobody tries/tried to go the other way. Many realize dthat despite what their govt said things were better in the “free western democracies”. Except for those few who profited from the communistic dictatorship nobody really liked the govt. That would explain why communism fell through popular uprisings throughout Eastern Europe, A fact that you and Molyneux fail to remember. You really need to stop quoting Molyneux who seems to have a complete lack of understanding of history, economics and human nature. No it wasn’t a change in human nature it was a change in the societal morals. That is not the same thing. There is and continues to be slavery today even in the USA. Prostitutes who are slaves to their pimps or the gangs that owns them, Sweat shops using illegal immigrants who are not even allowed to leave the factory they work in. If we haven’t been able to get people to stop slavery even though it is deemed illegal and the state will use “FORCE” to stop it when they find it then why do you think a stateless society even if you take generations will somehow make things work better? How will a few generations remove sociopaths and psychopaths when since the start of human history we haven’t been able to do so? A couple of generations for people to accept the non agression principal? People have tried that for millennia it has never worked because there are always other people that figure out if they don’t follow these principles they can control those who do. Once again take 1 10-100-1000 years you will still end up with Somalia, nothing you have said proves otherwise everything history has shown us proves it will happen. Deny history, believe what you want but do so at your and everyone else’s peril. I’ll say it again read The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin. It’s a fun easy read when she sets up a society similar to what you are talking about. She then points out the flaws. Perhaps you will find it illuminating. I am sure you will at least find it entertaining.