60 replies to this topic

[Molly Mae]

Spoiler for trying again

Just hope B-kun doesn't kiss Violet!

B-kun is already assuming any of the partners would have to have:
1) entered the kitchen, administered the poison, and left
2) re-entered the kitchen later, observed and edited the carved letter, removed the poison, and left.
In any case, no poison will be found in the kitchen.

 

If Violet is the killer, there are two scenarios:
A) First scenario, followed by
3) re-entered the kitchen later still and "discovered the body",

Or
B) 1) followed by

2) re-entered the kitchen later, observed and edited the carved letter and "discovered the body"

If this is true, the poison is still in the kitchen.

 

UNLESS in 1) she kissed her daddy (having put on poison lipstick to which she has the antidote or a protective device), left and removed the lipstick.

 

In all of these scenarios but the last, the killer, upon seeing the carved letter, could have simply removed the sirloin along with the poison.

Only in the last scenario, when Violet returns only once, is it necessary to doctor the sirloin before "discovering the body".

Spoiler for ...

The Kiss would be a contact poison, though, and (hopefully) not ingested.

 

I think the biggest clues here are the wilted lettuce, the grey meat, and a towel.  Why a towel?

[CaptainEd]

Spoiler for ...

The Kiss would be a contact poison, though, and (hopefully) not ingested.

 

I think the biggest clues here are the wilted lettuce, the grey meat, and a towel.  Why a towel?

Spoiler for it would look ingested...

It appears on the victim's lips. No reason it wouldn't appear in his alimentary canal.

 

ALso, in all other cases, why didn't the killer simply remove the sirloin at the same time as the poison?

But I agree, my solution doesn't use the wilted lettuce, the grey meat, the spoon, the plate, or the towel.

Did the murder happen earlier "today" (ie, the day of the evening in which Study of Scarlet and Sirloined Letter take place)?

Edited by CaptainEd, 02 January 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[Molly Mae]

I would be willing to bet that the greying of the meat and the wilting of the lettuce are something that happened as a side-effect and maybe not immediately.  Of course, it could just have easily been time that's passed since the murder.  Alas, I must leave, but I have one more speculation--

 

Spoiler for ...

If the towel were soaked in some kind of poison, it could give off vapour in what's very likely a warm kitchen.  The victim breathes in the vapour, the killer collects the towel (carefully), and nobody's the wiser.

[plainglazed]

i agree with your statement MoMa but to clarify, was thinking Victor had not intended to commence his mis en place but instead gathered the greens and sirloin knowing they would oxidize(?)/turn brown thereby indicating (maybe along with the carving) the culprit. long shot for sure but was trying to think "enigmatically" like That Woman.

also am curious re the towel. why go to the kitchen for that? one does pat dry beef before browning (meant as searing in the juices this time) but i usually use something disposable. if Victor typically used towels for this purpose... another long shot.

still pondering...

[Molly Mae]

I would be willing to bet that the greying of the meat and the wilting of the lettuce are something that happened as a side-effect and maybe not immediately.  Of course, it could just have easily been time that's passed since the murder.  Alas, I must leave, but I have one more speculation--

 

Spoiler for ...

If the towel were soaked in some kind of poison, it could give off vapour in what's very likely a warm kitchen.  The victim breathes in the vapour, the killer collects the towel (carefully), and nobody's the wiser.

After I posted this, I figured it's probably not feasible the way I posed it.  As a vapour, any poison would likely be too diluted to kill anybody--especially kill somebody on the spot.  

 

Spoiler for I'm thinking maybe

somebody knew Mr O'Hare's medical history, or knew that he was allergic to something.

[CaptainEd]

Spoiler for Towel

If we assume that no more than one person (from the set of partners+Violet) committed the murder (admittedly, this might be an invalid assumption), then any solution involves no more than one of (spoon, plate, towel). I agree the towel is an odd thing for someone to come to the kitchen for (but maybe they spilled some coffee at their desk), and it's hard to see how it could have been used as a murder weapon.

Spoiler for why not just remove the sirloin

Whoever did the deed was planning on one of these two scenarios:
(1-exit) murderer brings in and administers poison somehow, then leaves removing any excess poison and weapon; re-enters in order to discover the body, THEN, (not planned) discovers the message in the sirloin, edits the message, and then (planned) calls for help, OR
(2-exits) murderer brings in and administers poison somehow, then leaves; re-enters after a decent interval to remove the poison, (not planned) discovers the message in the sirloin, edits the message, and (planned) leaves. In this case, why bother to edit the sirloin, why not remove it at the same time as the poisoned weapon?

This is why I think it isn't important what initial Victor tried to carve into the sirloin, merely that the murderer didn't simply remove the sirloin. Why not? I suggest that it's because she expected to simply return and "discover" the body, and did NOT feel she had time to make an extra exit.

Furthermore, from a puzzle perspective, why would the murderer change the identifying message into a mysterious letter (A)? Why not frame one of the other suspects? Why not simply carve a few more horizontal, vertical, and diagonal lines into it That would certainly add so much noise that nobody could retrieve an unambiguous message from it. My answer is: we don't need to know what the original message was, merely that the murderer didn't remove the sirloin.

 

Spoiler for layout of kitchen

I don't see how this matters, but I bring it to your attention, as Y-san included some words that make this clear:

 

The island is between the entry door and the body. (B-kun and company entered the big kitchen, then went around the island, then saw the body outline on the floor.) Is this important to us? Does it show that:

a) someone could possibly have entered the kitchen to retrieve their item (spoon, plate,towel) without seeing the body? or

b) murderer edited the message upon having just entered the kitchen?

I don't see why it's important to us. Maybe it is, though...

Edited by CaptainEd, 03 January 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[phaze]

Spoiler for Arrest...

Michael Vittaro.

 

The spoon was made of lead. When Michael came in for the spoon Victor realised that he had been poisoned tried to first find some ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

As evidenced by the oxidation of the sirloin and salad there was none present. Victor then carved a V into the sirloin to implicate Vittaro.

Seeing this Michael changed the letter to an A as Victor passed out on the floor before leaving with the murder weapon.

[Molly Mae]

Spoiler for Arrest...

Michael Vittaro.

 

The spoon was made of lead. When Michael came in for the spoon Victor realised that he had been poisoned tried to first find some ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

As evidenced by the oxidation of the sirloin and salad there was none present. Victor then carved a V into the sirloin to implicate Vittaro.

Seeing this Michael changed the letter to an A as Victor passed out on the floor before leaving with the murder weapon.

Would a single dose from a single spoon be enough to kill someone, though? Almost every death from lead poisoning is chronic after years of exposure... 

[Wilson]

Violet nodded, and her baby blue eyes clouded. “My father, Victor O’Hare, the one whose name is on the sign...he died...he...was murdered.”
 

 

Probably not relevant, just didn't seem right when I read it.  Later references  to "Dad", stupid question I know...are they the same person?
 

[flamebirde]

Spoiler for

Hepton. once he took the towel he soaked it in poison, he sneaked back and shoved it in Victor's mouth. Victor bit down, the poison came out, Victor accidentally swallows. Victor falls down and is knocked unconscious. Hepton thinks the deed is done and leaves, taking and disposing of the towel. He comes back later on other business, sees something carved in the meat that implicates him and changes it to an A as he is the only partner to not have an a in his name.

EDIT: clarification.

Edited by flamebirde, 04 January 2013 - 03:35 AM.