Guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Any person can comment on this post, but it's geared towards Christians (Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.) Anyone can post the first subject of conversation. Just discuss issues about the religion (Heaven, evangelism,etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 What part do I have backwards? You said you want to undo baptism for the believers and I'm asking what sort of effect you're looking for. You're an atheist looking for some effect from undoing a ritual you don't believe had any effect to begin with. I'm curious what effect you're looking for in any sort of baptismal reversal. You can't reverse baptism so... and I would be looking for an effect on my grandma's face when braking the news to her... and take a picture of that face!!! Happy now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Why is this so "interesting" to you? Sorry, I know the question was directed at Scraff but I find it interesting because I'd like to understand more about why it creates a problem for you. Would you be given a religious burial if it were against your will? Do your family not accept the validity of your choice? In what way, practically speaking, does your status need to be changed in other people's eyes? To a large extent I see this kind of thing as not being other people's business, and I only advertise my views when I feel like it. So your viewpoint is different in an interesting way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 You can't reverse baptism so... and I would be looking for an effect on my grandma's face when braking the news to her... Happy now?and take a picture of that face!!! You've been asking about reversing baptism as if it was something you actually wanted to accomplish. You then asked a friend knowledgeable in theology, again, as if it were something you'd actually like to accomplish. I've been asking you what you want to accomplish in multiple posts. Now you claim all this is just about getting a rise from your grandmother which makes zero sense in relation to the way you've been asking here and to your friend, so no, I'm not happy now. You're either making this up now because you're embarrassed to admit reversing a baptism is nonsensical from the atheistic, rational point of view or you've been wasting everyone's time by not just telling us from the get go that you just want advice on how to torture your grandmother. I didn't force you to discuss any of this here so I don't understand what the "happy now" is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 You've been asking about reversing baptism as if it was something you actually wanted to accomplish. Yes if I could, but I can't. You then asked a friend knowledgeable in theology, again, as if it were something you'd actually like to accomplish. Yes I did. I've been asking you what you want to accomplish in multiple posts. Discussion. Accomplished it and I didn't have anything else to say. Now you claim all this is just about getting a rise from your grandmother which makes zero sense in relation to the way you've been asking here and to your friend, so no, I'm not happy now. I've been sarcastic when I mentioned my grandmother and the reason I said that was because I have answered the question you were asking me multiple times and because you weren't nice You're either making this up now because you're embarrassed to admit reversing a baptism is nonsensical from the atheistic, rational point of view or you've been wasting everyone's time by not just telling us from the get go that you just want advice on how to torture your grandmother. I'm never embarrassed when I'm asking questions about things that I'm not quite familiar with, and I love the old hag dearly I didn't force you to discuss any of this here so I don't understand what the "happy now" is for. Well I started with a glare so I thought I might end it with "happy now" - sarcasm! Any more questions... no sarcasm this time. I just don't get what you don't get. I think that my English is pretty good but I have trouble expressing myself when it comes down to various debates so maybe sometimes I don't make quite sense, sorry... I'll try to pull the entire thing together in one post to explain what I wanted to say about reversing baptism, is that OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Yes I did. Okay? Why? I still don't understand why you asked someone who knew about theology if you weren't trying to actually accomplish anything by un-doing a baptism but trying to get some sort of reaction from your grandmother. Discussion. Accomplished it and I didn't have anything else to say. You really don't get my point? I've been asking repeatedly what you're trying to accomplish and then you finally answer that it's to see your grandmother's face when you tell her about a baptism reversal. I've been sarcastic when I mentioned my grandmother and the reason I said that was because I have answered the question you were asking me multiple times Okay, now you're telling me you were sarcastic (lying) about the grandmother excuse? You haven't answered me multiple times. You said the reversal was for the believers and that doesn't tell me what effect it would have on the believers. When I ask what that effect would be, you tell me it's just for the look on your grandmother's face, but then admit that that's not true either. So no, you didn't answer the question of what effect you're looking for multiple times. and because you weren't nice At what point before you mentioned your grandmother wasn't I nice? Well I started with a glare so I thought I might end it with "happy now" - sarcasm! Why? What did I do to deserve that? You asked a question and I attempted to answer you and needed clarification. Pardon me. Any more questions... no sarcasm this time. I just don't get what you don't get. I think I made it plenty clear. What effect are you looking for in this baptism reversal? I'll try to pull the entire thing together in one post to explain what I wanted to say about reversing baptism, is that OK? Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) You really don't get my point? I've been asking repeatedly what you're trying to accomplish and then you finally answer that it's to see your grandmother's face when you tell her about a baptism reversal. Dude the thing about my grandmother was only sarcasm... Edited May 5, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Okay, now you're telling me you were sarcastic (lying) about the grandmother excuse? You haven't answered me multiple times. You said the reversal was for the believers and that doesn't tell me what effect it would have on the believers. When I ask what that effect would be, you tell me it's just for the look on your grandmother's face, but then admit that that's not true either. So no, you didn't answer the question of what effect you're looking for multiple times. This is the miscommunication that I'm talking about. I answered that multiple times before you joined the thread! Why? What did I do to deserve that? You asked a question and I attempted to answer you and needed clarification. Pardon me. Well this little guy (emoticon) is my favorite and I like using it. I glare all the time ask anyone. I think I made it plenty clear. What effect are you looking for in this baptism reversal? Sounds good. I think it's futile cause you'll find more ways do misinterpret what I said so I just don't see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Dude the thing about my grandmother was only sarcasm... Yeah, I got that. So a discussion wasn't accomplished as you claim because we still don't know what effect you're looking for in the baptism reversal if the bit about your grandmother isn't true. Do you want to drag this out any further or do you finally want to tell us as you said you would in your previous post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 This is the miscommunication that I'm talking about. I answered that multiple times before you joined the thread! Then why not just point out where? I think it's futile cause you'll find more ways do misinterpret what I said so I just don't see the point. I'm not finding ways to do anything. You never once told us what you're trying to accomplish in a baptism reversal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Sorry, I know the question was directed at Scraff but I find it interesting because I'd like to understand more about why it creates a problem for you. Would you be given a religious burial if it were against your will? Do your family not accept the validity of your choice? In what way, practically speaking, does your status need to be changed in other people's eyes? To a large extent I see this kind of thing as not being other people's business, and I only advertise my views when I feel like it. So your viewpoint is different in an interesting way. Pshhh... I really don't know how to put in words. It has to do with the people and their beliefs in the rural area of my country. I live in the city but the rest of my family lives in the countryside hence the different beliefs. OK for example my aunt believes in various superstition, for example: If you are going somewhere for example to buy something or pay the bills or whatever and if you leave your house and then remember that you forgot to take your umbrella for example and the forecast is that it'll be raining you shouldn’t go back in the house cause it’s a bad thing to do, cause she believes that in that case whatever you were about to do that day will fail. You’ll fail to buy the things you wanted and you’ll fail to pay your bills because you went back to fetch your umbrella and by the superstition it’s a bad thing to do. So you better go without your umbrella cause if you go back to get it it’s better to stay home cause nothing that you wanted to accomplish that day will be the way you wanted. So if you go back after you locked the door that day will turn into one of those days when nothing turns out the way you wanted. I don’t believe in that superstition and I always go back when I forget something and I don’t really pay attention to how the day turns out. Sometimes I don’t get things accomplished even if I do everything right by those superstition standards (to be honest I don’t really pay attention to any of them for that matter so I don’t really know am I doing everything right by those standards?!). It’s all coincedential as far as I’m concerned. However… if I would be going somewhere with my aunt and I remembered that I forgot something I wouldn’t have gone back into the house to get it cause she believes in that superstition. If I were alone of course I would go back in a heartbeat without thinking about the consequences of "what I've done". (Some fine paradox could be extracted out of this gibberish ) So what would I want to accomplish with reversing baptism. Well it’s the only way they would take my atheism seriously. By they I mean my large family and they are all like my aunt, well not all of them, but a lot of them. So if I only say that I don’t believe in God, or what the bible says and the lot they would just discard that saying that I can’t say that I wasn’t baptized when I was, but by reversing baptism they would take my atheism seriously, or so I think. Of course they would be disappointed but they would take it seriously. I really don’t know how else to explain it. I don’t wanna start listing all the crazy superstition that my aunt believes in cause this is not a tread about that (but boy you wouldn’t believe, and not just my aunt). I only used superstition as an example to try to express what I wanted to say by reversing baptism. There… Edited May 5, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I dont think that kind of superstition has anything to do with Christianity. We're not all nuts. edit: spl Edited May 5, 2009 by NM_EJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 akaslickster Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Baptism is made up, like the parting of the red sea. Correct/prove that I'm wrong. Fictition belongs in people all over the world, yet they have the rights to love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I dont think that kind of superstition has anything to do with Christianity. We're not all nuts. edit: spl I know I wasn't saying that but some were asking me what would I accomplish by reversing baptism. Please don't make me start over repeating everything I said. I never said that those superstitions were about Christians but about the people in the rural area of MY COUNTRY and their beliefs. Not Christians cause believing in God makes perfect sense <-- sarcasm! EDIT: Those are probably left over pagan beliefs. Edited May 5, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 This isnt something thats worth getting into. But you cant say that baptisim and the parting of the red sea are made up and ask to prove it. Its the same as asking to disprove it. No one alive today was there to see it happen or not, and the only person that we know of that wrote about it said that it did happen. If you believe that there is no God, then of course you wont believe in it. But if you do believe in God, then all things are possible, not just the ones that can be explained scientifically. If God made the laws of nature, then he can break them if he chooses. Its all about presuppositions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I know I wasn't saying that but some were asking me what would I accomplish by reversing baptism. Please don't make me start over repeating everything I said. I never said that those superstitions were about Christians but about the people in the rural area of MY COUNTRY and their beliefs. Not Christians cause believing in God makes perfect sense <-- sarcasm! thats fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 akaslickster Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Aha! Then I am to believe that the only thing holding you to your belief is faith and trust, due to ancestry. BS walks and talks, so I went non-religious in order to clear any old-wives tales or similar non proof. EDIT: I still believe in a higher being, supposedly. However, I want to have something substancial to keep me from falling away from such belief. Every religious person is well respected by me, though I want to hear more than heresay. Edited May 5, 2009 by akaslickster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 This isnt something thats worth getting into. But you cant say that baptisim and the parting of the red sea are made up and ask to prove it. Its the same as asking to disprove it. No one alive today was there to see it happen or not, and the only person that we know of that wrote about it said that it did happen. If you believe that there is no God, then of course you wont believe in it. But if you do believe in God, then all things are possible, not just the ones that can be explained scientifically. If God made the laws of nature, then he can break them if he chooses. Its all about presuppositions. Read my signature No braking laws of nature and who says that everything isn't possible. I don't believe in God but I do believe that anything is possible as long as it's inside the realm of science, maybe not the science we are familiar with but still within it's boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Aha! Then I am to believe that the only thing holding you to your belief is faith and trust, due to ancestry. BS walks and talks, so I went non-religious in order to clear any old-wives tales or similar non proof. Um... I'm not quite sure... ? I don't have ancestry problems but my relatives do cause they cling on to those superstition that has been passed on for generations to have a sense of control in their lives I guess. If I don't do this then that surely won't happen to me. Something like that. They are also devoted Christians even though from what I do understand, Christianity has nothing to do with superstition. Edited May 5, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Aha! Then I am to believe that the only thing holding you to your belief is faith and trust, due to ancestry. BS walks and talks, so I went non-religious in order to clear any old-wives tales or similar non proof. Not due to ancestry, but definately faith. I grew up Christian, but turned away from it when I went to college. I threw the whole thing out the window. I thought it was a gimmick (sp?) used to control the young and give hope to the old. Something that was made up, false emotions, false history, and false hope. After 2 years of "secular" education, bilogoy, anthropology, and philosophy, I found that the world didnt make sense without God. Not because of my parents but because thats the way that I choose to believe and live my life. Its okay if you dont agree, but I believe with my whole heart thats its the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 God is awesome! He is the Lord of lords, King of kings, All mighty God He's Lord of everything!!!!! type this in on ur computor to see a music video from a christian band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 God is awesome! He is the Lord of lords, King of kings, All mighty God He's Lord of everything!!!!! type this in on ur computor to see a music video from a christian band... btw it's super chick's we live...and don't type it just click it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Christianity is more than just believing in miracles. It gives people a cause, moral values, and precautions on bad things. The Bible is a guide that adresses all parts of life, and is practical as well as entertaining. The atheist just wants to live happily without any consequence, and is limited by science and what others say is real. The Christian is only limited by the mind in terms of what can happen. With God, all things are possible. If you can't disprove something, then why scoff at it? Don't judge something you can't understand. (adressed to all atheists) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 akaslickster Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Um... I'm not quite sure... ? I don't have ancestry problems but my relatives do cause they cling on to those superstition that has been passed on for generations to have a sense of control in their lives I guess. If I don't do this then that surely won't happen to me. Something like that. They are also devoted Christians even though from what I do understand, Christianity has nothing to do with superstition.Oh, sorry, that it was not directed toward you, though life can be good either way one chooses. I merely would like to put an end to the hate that exists amongst religions and other categories. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well, how ironic. Instead of spreading religious goodwill, you are sowing seeds of discord among us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 andromeda Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well, how ironic. Instead of spreading religious goodwill, you are sowing seeds of discord among us. What are you talking about man?! And more important to whom?! Hit the QUOTE button next time on the post you are replying to and then ADD REPLY button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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