[Guest]

This a discussion that popped into my mind, after looking at a picture in Unreality's signature. Aliens and UFO's....do they exist? And also the other facets of space that intruige you, can all be discussed in this topic.

I could say that I don't believe aliens and UFOs exist, but that would just be implying that they do actually exist, I just dont believe in them. So instead I will say that I believe that aliens and UFOs DO NOT exist. I am also a theist; I believe there is a God.

Here are some debatable topics that I have constructed, which I am sure will get ripped up and down....

"Why are UFOs always spotted when they are "hovering" the earth....why never in outer space, such as pictures from the Hubble or reported sightings from the ISS???"

"It is not possible for aliens to exist unless they inhabit earth(the only stable planet capable of holding living organisms, and somehow we do not know they are on earth), or they are living in some foreign galaxy or mothership , where stable living conditions are achievable."

Your thoughts on this? And I know from personal experience that there are Atheists out there somewhere....

[unreality]

UFOs = don't exist

aliens, ie, life forms elsewhere in the universe = almost certainly exist

and the picture in my sig is the Flying Spaghetti Monster ;D

[Guest]

To put it in terms that I am sure are correct...

UFO's have a very low probability of being real. Or, another way of putting it: If aliens have been flying around in our atmosphere (unlikely) the reports that have been made of UFO's are incredibly unlikely to be them.

Extraterrestrial life: High probability. If only because I think that the alternative (that only one planet in a space as large as the universe is capable of supporting life) is a fairly preposterous thought. I also tend to think: If we're it... that's very disappointing

[Guest]

"It is not possible for aliens to exist unless they inhabit earth(the only stable planet capable of holding living organisms, and somehow we do not know they are on earth), or they are living in some foreign galaxy or mothership , where stable living conditions are achievable."

How is this the case? The universe is incredibly vast, and it is completely possible that there is another planet similar to Earth in that it can support life. I'm not saying that there definitely is, but it's possible.

Now aliens in reference to UFOs and space ships? No, not likely. Besides, how do we know that any aliens that we meet would be more advanced than us? It could be just the opposite, sometime in the future we may eventually go and visit a planet with aliens, where we are more advanced than them. Who knows? Many hospitable planets may have developed and died out in the time it took us to get where we are, and there could be even more after we're gone (which we will be, eventually).

[Guest]

How is this the case? The universe is incredibly vast, and it is completely possible that there is another planet similar to Earth in that it can support life. I'm not saying that there definitely is, but it's possible.

Now aliens in reference to UFOs and space ships? No, not likely. Besides, how do we know that any aliens that we meet would be more advanced than us? It could be just the opposite, sometime in the future we may eventually go and visit a planet with aliens, where we are more advanced than them. Who knows? Many hospitable planets may have developed and died out in the time it took us to get where we are, and there could be even more after we're gone (which we will be, eventually).

I didnt say that we were the only planet in the entire universe that could support life....I said "unless they live in some foreign galaxy" And for the probability figure, why is it highly probable? It is actually unlikely that any other planet has a sun that is the exact distance away from it as earth is to the sun.

[Guest]

It has been said that we (all species on earth), are the aliens. We know too little about where we live, and nothing about space to speak of by comparison of all the discoveries that are still to come. So any answer could be right for now.

Short reply... that's all i have.

Oh and UFO's ... have we seen one. I haven't and don't know anyone who has.

[Guest]

It has been said that we (all species on earth), are the aliens. We know too little about where we live, and nothing about space to speak of by comparison of all the discoveries that are still to come. So any answer could be right for now.

Short reply... that's all i have.

Oh and UFO's ... have we seen one. I haven't and don't know anyone who has.

I knew sooner or later someone would bring that up, and since we are all literal thinkers here(or was that lateral ) ...I will change that to aliens outside of the planet earth.

BTW How ironic that Lost in Space commented on this...

[unreality]

our earth is only perfect for our living conditions, because that's the way we evolved. It's the other way around. Life is incredibly resilient and self-replicating molecules can develope in really almost any condition. When we think of the basis of life we think of DNA, RNA, etc, and there are certain conditions needed for those, which earth happens to be a match for - it's not a coincidence. It's the other way around. We've evolved to thrive in Earth's conditions. Life could develop on a distant planet based on bromine gas for survival instead of oxygen (just a random example). It's very likely that the universe is glowing with life in many many many places, the majority of it much simpler than us I'm sure, such as basic bacteria and whatnot

[andromeda]

"Why are UFOs always spotted when they are "hovering" the earth....why never in outer space, such as pictures from the Hubble or reported sightings from the ISS???"

There were some reports from the Apollo 11 crew I think... I'm too lazy to look it up.

It was probably an optical illusion...

And Hubble... seriously...

Edited December 9, 2008 by andromeda

[Guest]

our earth is only perfect for our living conditions, because that's the way we evolved. It's the other way around. Life is incredibly resilient and self-replicating molecules can develope in really almost any condition. When we think of the basis of life we think of DNA, RNA, etc, and there are certain conditions needed for those, which earth happens to be a match for - it's not a coincidence. It's the other way around. We've evolved to thrive in Earth's conditions. Life could develop on a distant planet based on bromine gas for survival instead of oxygen (just a random example). It's very likely that the universe is glowing with life in many many many places, the majority of it much simpler than us I'm sure, such as basic bacteria and whatnot

And that explains why no other life forms on any other planets have been discovered how? That is actually an ill-contrived statement, based primarily on evolution. Sure we human's adapted, and are still adapting to this day, with the way we think for example....but what you are referring to is like saying a human threwn into a fiery pit will survive because over time it will adapt. No human will ever be able to withstand heat greater than 400 degrees F, even with 10 million years(as you atheists put it) of "adaptation".

[Guest]

There were some reports from the Apollo 11 crew I think... I'm too lazy to look it up.

It was probably an optical illusion...

And Hubble... seriously...

reminds me of an old smith and jones sketch of world leaders talking abouth disarmament and the missile stash that each have noticed from there 'spy in the sky' - "that's just a spec on your lens"

[unreality]

jrod: you're twisting my words. Did I say that a human could survive intense heat? Nope. I said that life can develope in almost any condition, given the time. Humans are a type of lifeform that has already developed for a specific condition, and now if we stray too far from our optimal conditions, we will die... although lifeforms can definitely develope in scalding hot temperatures. Think of the archaebacteria that live at the superhot smoke vents on the ocean floor. They took a very different evolutionary path early on, and thrive in very conditions than us.

If you're rearing for a debate (looks like you are), be careful. It's widely accepted fact, even among religious folk, that the "adaptation" that you scorn is a definite process. It's the common origins & speciation parts that the more extreme religious (such as you) take offense at. There's no way to ignore natural selection.

Edited December 10, 2008 by unreality

[grey cells]

I agree with whatever unreality has said. And we humans are, in general, a species with a very narrow viewpoint. We are without doubt arrogant creatures who look upon our fellow creatures on earth as lowly developed forms with an even lower intellectual level. We have certain prejudices against the animals which we share the earth with, which even extends to outer space. This can be seen through a related, debatable classic example of "Who is really behind the cage?" The animals we have imprisoned behind the bars or us humans. After all, for the most part these animals have adapted pretty well to the new conditions, a new habitat. But at the same time, even though we term ourselves as adapting to new conditions pretty fast, would we be able to live under different conditions in the extreme? For instance, in the jungles in isolation for a long period. And some animals like Gorillas and Chimpanzees are able to communicate with us through sign language, with a lesser vocabulary, of course. Not intending to veer off-topic, what I mean to say is our narrow-minded approach, with a few exceptions, tends to only search for stereotypical conditions favorable to development of life forms, as on earth. So life forms completely different from human knowledge and imagination may very well be present on other planets and other dimensions too.

Agreed we have to continue our research on possible life-forms outside Earth. But don't you think we are overreaching? As LIS has hinted, there are millions or billions or a much larger amount of species to be discovered on land and water. How about life existing below the surface of earth, deep into the bowels of earth? Extremely high temperatures doesn't mean there is no life down there. Simply because we do not have access to such places, as there many more places on surface of earth(Eg. Bermuda Triangle: There could be aliens or a single alien who visited earth a long, long time ago wreaking havoc ). Gives me the creeps, just thinking about the infinite possibilities. Hey! any alien reading this topic, right now? For all you know, I myself could be an alien typing this from an underground computer located beneath the Bermuda Triangle, which is in fact a perfect rectangular piece of land which is projected as a triangle to the satellites capturing images from orbit due to the signals being distorted by my Infra-red signal sensor very unlike any on your so called earth. Sorry my human friends for deceiving you all for so long.

Edit: typo

[unreality]

GC I thought I knew you :o

[grey cells]

GC I thought I knew you

You made a big mistake.:muahahaha:

Oh! And regarding UFO's, it is rumored that USA and Russia had separate military installations for UFO sightings in 1960-ish years. And I read that most of the UFO sightings: Saucer-shaped, Cylindrical, concentric, a horde of circular UFO's were sighted during this period. Now that's coincidence or is it perfect timing?

I have a book titled "Mysteries of the unexplained", a Readers Digest special, in which around 75 pages are devoted to UFO sightings. One of them I remember vividly: A South American farmer(I forget the country) claimed he was abducted by a flying saucer, in which he was seduced by an alien, resembling a human female and was forced to make love to her. Now that's hybrid mating, I guess.

EDIT: Typo

[itachi-san]

Well UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object, so yes I believe there have been sightings of those (none by me unfortunately). However, I do not believe that they were alien in nature. They were most likely tests of a new aircraft or rocket or the like. I think that if an alien species had the capability of visiting Earth, they would have the capability of not being seen by us as well. Therefore, I don't believe aliens have visited us, at least not anytime recently. I've often wondered if aliens planted the seed of life on Earth and that's how it began (as an experiment of sorts), but that raises the question: "then where did they get it?"

As for aliens existing, I say it's a 99.99999% Yes. Whether more or less advanced than humans, most likely both and in a wide array. There's also a high chance of there being planets very similar to Earth in age, population and species. I feel like the probability of other planets not having alien life is so low, it's basically 0. There is just too much space and too many possibilities.

[Guest]

Hey GC - I have one of those books somewhere - predates yours maybe - 30 years ago at least. The trouble is the investigations where stil within restricted information. Unless they updated it.

At the end of the day, we either 'believe' or not. We want to believe we are not alone. It wouldn't give any credibility to theists or atheists, but it may give some closure on curiosity factor. So if we are the aliens - should we 'GO HOME' (ET ref.). I think I'll stay and see if the earth thing is gonna work out (The day the Earth Stood Still - anyone seen it yet, new that is not the original)

[grey cells]

Hey GC - I have one of those books somewhere - predates yours maybe - 30 years ago at least. The trouble is the investigations where stil within restricted information. Unless they updated it.

At the end of the day, we either 'believe' or not. We want to believe we are not alone. It wouldn't give any credibility to theists or atheists, but it may give some closure on curiosity factor. So if we are the aliens - should we 'GO HOME' (ET ref.). I think I'll stay and see if the earth thing is gonna work out (The day the Earth Stood Still - anyone seen it yet, new that is not the original)

It's actually my dad's... at least 20 years old.

[Guest]

Well UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object, so yes I believe there have been sightings of those (none by me unfortunately). However, I do not believe that they were alien in nature. They were most likely tests of a new aircraft or rocket or the like. I think that if an alien species had the capability of visiting Earth, they would have the capability of not being seen by us as well. Therefore, I don't believe aliens have visited us, at least not anytime recently.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking too. Most people associate UFO with aliens but as you stated it stands for "Unidentified Flying Object" and was not neccessarily an alien craft. Now the possibility is there that it was...But the chances are slim.

As for aliens, it's hard to say anything with absolute certainty but it's very possible that they exist. In such a vast universe the chance that there is life out there is high. We only know what we've learned from satellite images that were released to the public. Who's to say that the hubble telescope or other space crafts haven't caught site of an alien craft? People like to talk about the Government hiding the fact of alien life. Who's to say they aren't? It's quite possible as GC stated that aliens could very well be aliens among us that we don't know. There are just so many uncertainties in the universe at this point and there always will be.

[Guest]

Hollow man ?

They may be invisible with cloaking device, they may only need a dumbed down version for our low tech - don't sniff at it.. NEthings poss

[Guest]

Hollow man ?

They may be invisible with cloaking device, they may only need a dumbed down version for our low tech - don't sniff at it.. NEthings poss

They could even be named Ford Prefect or something and live down the street from you! If they hide their ships using the SEP principle (Somebody Else's Problem) then only crazy, nosy, paranoid people will ever see them. Suddenly, it all makes perfect sense.

Of course, more seriously, there are a lot of things in the air above our heads, so it's unlikely that any UFO sightings are extraterrestrial in nature. More likely prototype planes like itachi said or intraterrestrial objects like satellites falling back to Earth or something like that. As for alien life, chances are highly probable for it to exist, though unlikely to be in any form that we can detect in our lifetimes. Interstellar travel is still a long way away for us and it's likely to take a similar amount of time for aliens to develop similar technology and even if they did get here, it's probably not going to be like the big super ships of sci-fi movies and such, but more likely a scout vessel that can barely hold together or some such thing. Though it is possible that in the 12-14 billion years since the Universe began, something somewhere has perfected interstellar travel and have brought hidden research ships to Earth to conduct nefarious experiments on the most paranoid and delusional members of our societies; it's impossible to say from our limited perspective.

[itachi-san]

So if we are the aliens - should we 'GO HOME' (ET ref.).

wasn't it phone home? and can you? I'd like to hear the daily news from across the galaxy.

Who's to say that the hubble telescope or other space crafts haven't caught site of an alien craft? People like to talk about the Government hiding the fact of alien life. Who's to say they aren't? It's quite possible as GC stated that aliens could very well be aliens among us that we don't know. There are just so many uncertainties in the universe at this point and there always will be.

That's it, I'm joining the MIB! Even though anything is possible, I think it's unlikely for the reason/question: "what would they get out of living here in disguise? or even just living here for that matter? ~maybe their sun blew up or something...

Interstellar travel is still a long way away for us and it's likely to take a similar amount of time for aliens to develop similar technology and even if they did get here, it's probably not going to be like the big super ships of sci-fi movies and such, but more likely a scout vessel that can barely hold together or some such thing. Though it is possible that in the 12-14 billion years since the Universe began, something somewhere has perfected interstellar travel and have brought hidden research ships to Earth to conduct nefarious experiments on the most paranoid and delusional members of our societies; it's impossible to say from our limited perspective.

A funny theoretical example: say an alien species sends a ramshackle scouting ship toward our solar system, then while the ship is on its way, they invent a faster mode of travel, like a wormhole or something, and then pass the scout ship and the second group gets here first

[unreality]

Me and my friends were thinking the other day (yes we can actually get pretty philosophical ;D) that we often imagine ourselves forming some sort of star-federation type thing with other planets or from-earth space colonies, etc. But what if there already is a star federation type 'United Planets' thing in our galaxy, and we're just left out? Maybe we're not advanced or cool enough for them

Screw them, we'll start our own space federation ;D

[Guest]

A funny theoretical example: say an alien species sends a ramshackle scouting ship toward our solar system, then while the ship is on its way, they invent a faster mode of travel, like a wormhole or something, and then pass the scout ship and the second group gets here first

Highly likely. Who'd want to be the first ever interstellar travellers from earth? You'd spend about 50 years plodding through space with alien ships laughing at you then finally arrive at your destination to find there's an earth colony already set up there from when they discovered warp drive 10 years after you left and nobody came to give you a lift because they thought it might detract from your achievement or something. Or maybe they just forgot all about you.

[Guest]

The term U.F.O is a kind of oxymoron... If we called it a UFO, we've just Identified it as a UFO and therefor would no longer be unidentified..

Edit: 1 post to 200!

Edited December 13, 2008 by RainThinker