[itachi-san]

I've got the new aspects of ABR4 pretty much figured out, so I might as well get the ball rolling. I'll figure all the little intricacies out during the Sign-up I can format the game for however many people sign up, so please just add to the list. Since I've frequently made people change genders, I figured it was about time I ate some of my own medicine This game will be entirely based off of Naruto. Also, it will focus a lot on customization. Basically, as the game progresses, you will have control over how your character develops. Also, it will nearly be impossible to die on the First Night.

Hokage: Tsunade

1)

One thing I'd like to get some feedback for is the puzzle challenge. It seems to be a mixed bag of opinions, though most have been in favor of it as I am. Essentially, if you claim any role or any specific ability that only one character can have you have to face a puzzle challenge. This puts a little penalty on the Heroes for outing themselves and leaving the Villains wide open. I'm further inclined to do this based on the Heroes game that just finished. Since basically every Hero came out with their role in pretty specific terms ("I'll Fly you to safety" for example) it was extremely easy to pinpoint the baddies. I would like some positive/negative feedback on that concept though, because I'm probably going to incorporate that rule.

Also, please include a date you'd like to see the game start. I'm shooting for about a week from now.

Edit: Nights end when I get all the pms. Days end 24 hours after the Night Post

[itachi-san]

So, will your little brother be making an appearance?

you guessed it. and to top it off, someone even gets to play as me

one rule in case anyone was wondering: players with BTSC all act every Night, so they cannot attack the same person on any single Night. This is to prevent easy gang-ups.

[Guest]

Itachi-san, I may be playing this game as an anonymous user all the time. The last few games when I was a baddie the boards were being stalked. I know it was against the rules but it did happen. I am not saying that that was the reason we lost either. There are a lot of various reasons but, it didnt help the villian cause to have snoopers peaking in on my activity....

even though I was playing BoW at the same time so I had to PM more than usual.

[itachi-san]

Itachi-san, I may be playing this game as an anonymous user all the time. The last few games when I was a baddie the boards were being stalked. I know it was against the rules but it did happen. I am not saying that that was the reason we lost either. There are a lot of various reasons but, it didnt help the villian cause to have snoopers peaking in on my activity....

even though I was playing BoW at the same time so I had to PM more than usual.

Umm. Do you mean you're going to make a new account and use that? If you do, please tell me who you are every pm so I don't have to keep track of false names, should others follow suit.

I don't really see the point of worrying about it to be honest. I hope people would not do that, but even if they do, every player has to send me a pm each night so I don't see how it narrows the field down at all. Also, this game, there will be a group of good guys with BTSC as well. In fact, almost everyone will have BTSC. Last game you were an independent character and got killed on the first night, so I don't think spying made much of a difference there This game, like I said, it will be very unlikely for anyone to die on the First Night. You'll see

[Guest]

Umm. Do you mean you're going to make a new account and use that? If you do, please tell me who you are every pm so I don't have to keep track of false names, should others follow suit.

I don't really see the point of worrying about it to be honest. I hope people would not do that, but even if they do, every player has to send me a pm each night so I don't see how it narrows the field down at all. Also, this game, there will be a group of good guys with BTSC as well. In fact, almost everyone will have BTSC. Last game you were an independent character and got killed on the first night, so I don't think spying made much of a difference there This game, like I said, it will be very unlikely for anyone to die on the First Night. You'll see

She just meant that she was planning on "signing in as anonymous" whenever she logged on. That way, no one would be able to see what actions she is taking or that she is even browsing the forum at all. I agree that it's probably unnecessary for ABR, but it can be a good idea for other games.

[Guest]

I made it just in time to be second to last again!

Hokage: Tsunade

1) Puzzlegirl

2) Mekal

3) Dawh

4) Prof. Templeton

5) Kat

6) Prince Marth

7) Sweetness Kat

8) Crazypainter

9) Joe's Student

10) woon

11) Panther

12) Cherry Lane

13) GC

14) Brandonb

15) FIF

16) Wally West

[Guest]

I guess that makes me last...

Hokage: Tsunade

1) Puzzlegirl

2) Mekal

3) Dawh

4) Prof. Templeton

5) Kat

6) Prince Marth

7) Sweetness Kat

8) Crazypainter

9) Joe's Student

10) woon

11) Panther

12) Cherry Lane

13) GC

14) Brandonb

15) FIF

16) Wally West

17) Sinistral

[unreality]

Waah all these Mafia games are so tempting, I want to jump back in But I just don't have the time, especially for the turbo-speed versions that seem to be popular lately

Edited October 16, 2008 by unreality

[Guest]

As far as the riddle/puzzle thing... I don't think it's a very good solution. I agree 100% that everyone coming forward with their roles is a serious problem and ruins the game, I just don't think that the riddle thing (in its current form at least) addresses the problem properly.

Consider the following 5 statements:

• I am Naruto.
  
• I am the character who can use Rasengan.
  
• Ichiraku ramen is my favorite food!
  
• I like Sakura-chan and she's on my team.
  
• Never again read under the old mountain.
  

Is there really any difference between any of these as far as the effect they have on the game in relation to the problem with claiming roles? No, they all get exactly the same point across. If they will all be given riddles, then okay perhaps the riddle rule could work. If only the first two will be given a riddle, then I really don't see the point in even having the riddle/puzzle rule in the first place since it can be circumvented so easily. If we are to really put a stop to the role claiming, then the riddle/puzzle should apply to all 5 of these I think.

Ideally, I think there should be some in-game reason for people to not want to reveal their roles, be it the independent character with a specific target win condition, or some role that can kill you if they find out who you really are.

Sorry if this sounds a little too critical... I just really don't agree with the idea unless it applies to everything. If Itachi can figure out who you are claiming to be based on a specific post, you get a riddle... that kind of thing.

But even that can be worked around. Example:

Post 1:

"I can use Byakugan" -Could be either Neji or Hinata.

Couple posts later...

Post 2:

"Gai is the leader of my team" -Could be either Rock Lee, Ten-Ten, or Neji.

Neither of those posts are direct enough to figure out your role based on the posts individually, but when you combine the two, you know that person is claiming to be Neji. Should they be given a riddle for this? I dunno. Will it ruin the game if all the heroes decide to do this? Most definitely.

That's just my opinion though. ABR4 sounds really cool and I'll play by whatever rules Itachi decides.

[itachi-san]

As far as the riddle/puzzle thing... I don't think it's a very good solution. I agree 100% that everyone coming forward with their roles is a serious problem and ruins the game, I just don't think that the riddle thing (in its current form at least) addresses the problem properly.

Consider the following 5 statements:

• I am Naruto.
  
• I am the character who can use Rasengan.
  
• Ichiraku ramen is my favorite food!
  
• I like Sakura-chan and she's on my team.
  
• Never again read under the old mountain.
  

Is there really any difference between any of these as far as the effect they have on the game in relation to the problem with claiming roles? No, they all get exactly the same point across. If they will all be given riddles, then okay perhaps the riddle rule could work. If only the first two will be given a riddle, then I really don't see the point in even having the riddle/puzzle rule in the first place since it can be circumvented so easily. If we are to really put a stop to the role claiming, then the riddle/puzzle should apply to all 5 of these I think.

Ideally, I think there should be some in-game reason for people to not want to reveal their roles, be it the independent character with a specific target win condition, or some role that can kill you if they find out who you really are.

Sorry if this sounds a little too critical... I just really don't agree with the idea unless it applies to everything. If Itachi can figure out who you are claiming to be based on a specific post, you get a riddle... that kind of thing.

But even that can be worked around. Example:

Post 1:

"I can use Byakugan" -Could be either Neji or Hinata.

Couple posts later...

Post 2:

"Gai is the leader of my team" -Could be either Rock Lee, Ten-Ten, or Neji.

Neither of those posts are direct enough to figure out your role based on the posts individually, but when you combine the two, you know that person is claiming to be Neji. Should they be given a riddle for this? I dunno. Will it ruin the game if all the heroes decide to do this? Most definitely.

That's just my opinion though. ABR4 sounds really cool and I'll play by whatever rules Itachi decides.

Yeah, it's a tough nut to crack. I know where some of this stems from ABR3, but I put a grandfather clause on that rule, meaning that if someone claimed their role before I made the rule, then I wouldn't challenge them. It only applied to any claims made after the rule and by people who had not already done so.

Bb's got a good idea going for future Heroes games, which is essentially what you propose. A character with the ability to kill someone if they know their exact role.

I have a couple problems with that. It will only put a damper on one person at a time, and could still lead to a landslide of roles coming out. The puzzle challenge would be applicable to however many people necessary. I would challenge all 5 of those examples actually, but I think I'll leave it in the hands of the players. Each group will have a player who can pm me that they think a role has been claimed to an extreme extent and I will check it out and challenge if necessary.

I'm still not 100% sure if the challenge is the best thing. I don't want to stifle conversation, but at the same time I don't want the villains to all get outed by process of elimination since the good guys are all claimed. Here's another example of how the villains can be screwed.

A: I'm Neji

B: LOL! I'm Neji

C: Fine A, tonight attack Sinistral and we'll know you're the good guy.

Neji attacks Mekal that Night. A is screwed.

In this game particularly, baddies really can't do anything by claiming roles, except getting out of being lynched for a day.

I'd love to hear as many ideas as possible about this, since I'm not sure if the puzzle is the best option. So far, that's what I'm going with. And I'll leave it to 3 key players to pm me exceptional posts. If those key players die so does that faction's ability to challenge.

[itachi-san]

Hokage: Tsunade

1) Puzzlegirl

2) Mekal

3) Dawh

4) Prof. Templeton

5) Kat

6) Prince Marth

7) Sweetness Kat

8) Crazypainter

9) Joe's Student

10) woon

11) Panther

12) Cherry Lane

13) GC

14) Brandonb

15) FIF

16) Wally West

17) Sinistral

OK, cool. This is the final roster. Thanks for signing up everyone!

Backups can feel free to join, but that hasn't really been necessary.

Edit: The game will start Friday and there will be no rush on initial Night pms. Let's try for 24 hours. See you there!

[Guest]

Guess I showed up a little to late. But I'll start the backup roster.

Hokage: Tsunade

1) Puzzlegirl

2) Mekal

3) Dawh

4) Prof. Templeton

5) Kat

6) Prince Marth

7) Sweetness Kat

8) Crazypainter

9) Joe's Student

10) woon

11) Panther

12) Cherry Lane

13) GC

14) Brandonb

15) FIF

16) Wally West

17) Sinistral

Backups:

1) Laharl

[Guest]

Well, its becoming a trend....CP dead b4 I am out of the gate. Just like the first CSM!

Sigh*****

[Guest]

Well, its becoming a trend....CP dead b4 I am out of the gate. Just like the first CSM!

Sigh*****

What happened? You died on Cruise Ship Mafia already?

[Brandonb]

Bb's got a good idea going for future Heroes games, which is essentially what you propose. A character with the ability to kill someone if they know their exact role.

I have a couple problems with that. It will only put a damper on one person at a time, and could still lead to a landslide of roles coming out. The puzzle challenge would be applicable to however many people necessary.

Kinda, it would only kill one per night/day whatever. But it would put a damper on everyone else...

Really, who wants to be the first to die instantly when the competition (lets call the role..."Frank") guesses them correctly? Maybe the first person thinks they can get away with it... then they get sent 6 feet under and are out of the game... Who's going to be next to start the landslide? Someone could if they wanted to, and they could be sure that the next day they would die. Or everyone could just come out with their roles in one big landslide....... Sweet! "Frank" now has his pick of the litter. What's that? A role with a 100% kill rate whether or not their target is defending? Sweet! Frank puts down the most powerful role right then and takes out another the next day.

It's basically an art of war. Having the ability to use one guard to watch over 100 men. If the men are aware that there are people among them that would rat them out, and they are terrified of the suffering associated with being ratted out, then a very strong incentive is created for them to just behave.

Of course, it would be complicated to have this role in your new format, but I think it may still be effective if tweaked.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Brandonb

[Guest]

Ok...Here's an interesting situation that I could see possibly happening during a vote.

Player A (let's say he's Naruto) is taking majority of the vote.

Player A doesn't want to come out with his/her role for fear of the repercussions of incorrectly solving Itachi's riddle.

Player B has BTSC with Player A and knows A's role.

Player B says "A is Naruto! Don't lynch him!"

So what happens here?

[Mekal]

Ok...Here's an interesting situation that I could see possibly happening during a vote.

Player A (let's say he's Naruto) is taking majority of the vote.

Player A doesn't want to come out with his/her role for fear of the repercussions of incorrectly solving Itachi's riddle.

Player B has BTSC with Player A and knows A's role.

Player B says "A is Naruto! Don't lynch him!"

So what happens here?

You also can't come out with an exact role of another person... Or at least that is what i think it is...

[Guest]

You also can't come out with an exact role of another person... Or at least that is what i think it is...

I'm more wondering how the situation would pan out as far as the riddle part.

[Guest]

Hokage: Tsunade

1) Puzzlegirl

2) Mekal

3) Dawh

4) Prof. Templeton

5) Kat

6) Prince Marth

7) Laharl

8) Crazypainter

9) Joe's Student

10) woon

11) Panther

12) Cherry Lane

13) GC

14) Brandonb

15) FIF

16) Wally West

17) Sinistral

Backups:

1)

Laharl congrats! You are now playing ABR4! Have fun!

I'm way to busy with my business right now, I wish I could play

[itachi-san]

Ok...Here's an interesting situation that I could see possibly happening during a vote.

Player A (let's say he's Naruto) is taking majority of the vote.

Player A doesn't want to come out with his/her role for fear of the repercussions of incorrectly solving Itachi's riddle.

Player B has BTSC with Player A and knows A's role.

Player B says "A is Naruto! Don't lynch him!"

So what happens here?

yea, it can get messy. I'm changing my mind on this one. Basically Bb and Sinistral's idea: There are 3 factions in this game. Each faction will have a random player who can add a role to their Night pm in addition to the name of their target. If they are correct then they get an automatic kill despite any obstacles.

Now the question is: should this be an ability that can't be used 2 Nights in a row? I think it should. It would eliminate random guesses every Night and make the ability more thoughtful.

Now it's all in the players' hands and out of mine

[Guest]

yea, it can get messy. I'm changing my mind on this one. Basically Bb and Sinistral's idea: There are 3 factions in this game. Each faction will have a random player who can add a role to their Night pm in addition to the name of their target. If they are correct then they get an automatic kill despite any obstacles.

Now the question is: should this be an ability that can't be used 2 Nights in a row? I think it should. It would eliminate random guesses every Night and make the ability more thoughtful.

Now it's all in the players' hands and out of mine

To eliminate the "guessing", you could add the stipulation that if the player-role is not correct, the kill fails. The attacker can still choose to target a player without identifying the role, for a normal kill.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Cherry Lane

[Brandonb]

yea, it can get messy. I'm changing my mind on this one. Basically Bb and Sinistral's idea: There are 3 factions in this game. Each faction will have a random player who can add a role to their Night pm in addition to the name of their target. If they are correct then they get an automatic kill despite any obstacles.

Now the question is: should this be an ability that can't be used 2 Nights in a row? I think it should. It would eliminate random guesses every Night and make the ability more thoughtful.

Now it's all in the players' hands and out of mine

Oh, I just thought of something today. If the three factions have BTSC, then there is no reason for them to reveal their roles in the first place. The reason it happened before, was b/c the good guys didn't know who each other were, and they outed themselves to identify each other. But if they already know all the people on their team in this game, then there will be no need to out themselves in the first place. I don't have a full understanding of the format for this game, but now I'm unsure if it will be necessary.

[Guest]

Oh, I just thought of something today. If the three factions have BTSC, then there is no reason for them to reveal their roles in the first place. The reason it happened before, was b/c the good guys didn't know who each other were, and they outed themselves to identify each other. But if they already know all the people on their team in this game, then there will be no need to out themselves in the first place. I don't have a full understanding of the format for this game, but now I'm unsure if it will be necessary.

I agree, for the most part. I think there's one faction that may not mind having their affiliations revealed for strategic reasons, so that their "allies" do not confuse them with a different faction. Then again they may want to stay secret. And even then it would be enough to just give away which faction you are in, and not your specific character within that faction. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[itachi-san]

Oh, I just thought of something today. If the three factions have BTSC, then there is no reason for them to reveal their roles in the first place. The reason it happened before, was b/c the good guys didn't know who each other were, and they outed themselves to identify each other. But if they already know all the people on their team in this game, then there will be no need to out themselves in the first place. I don't have a full understanding of the format for this game, but now I'm unsure if it will be necessary.

Well, 4 out of 8 Heroes don't have BTSC. And even-though each Akatsuki pair have BTSC, they don't know who the other 4 are. I think I'll modify it to be like CL's idea. If they're wrong, they don't get the kill. If they're right, they can't guess the next Night.

[Brandonb]

Well, 4 out of 8 Heroes don't have BTSC. And even-though each Akatsuki pair have BTSC, they don't know who the other 4 are. I think I'll modify it to be like CL's idea. If they're wrong, they don't get the kill. If they're right, they can't guess the next Night.

Oh I like that idea! Skip a day if they guess correctly, otherwise they get to guess every day. Nice

[Guest]

sorry if this was asked b4 but is there a time limit on answering questions/riddles?