[Guest]

Sign up to peace club in the sign-up thread!

This thread is for discussions on what you think about peace.

I haven't said where I stand yet, so I'll start off.

Not long ago I was one of those cynics who thought peace "ain't gonna happen", and that you need war to really feel the true value of proper peace. But it was easy for me to say that because I've never had to live in a wartorn country in fear for my life. In the past few few weeks my view has changed a lot. I think if we can stop our wars with our fellow man, let's. War is unnecessary.

Edited August 13, 2008 by lemonymelon

[Guest]

just to say i hope this is not a me v you frost - just have trouble not letting a thing go, though i have done before here

Way to over-analyze my comment LIS.

I never said that. I told you what the advantage was in the next sentence. Besides, I never said wars were good, I was just pointing out they aren't entirely bad.

Some of the technology that comes out of war is advantageous, and couldn't necessarily come about in the same way without it. The start of the internet was an attempt to gain an advantage in a war, people don't have that incentive when they are in peace(at least not as much). And yes, there are a lot of bad technologies that come out of war, especially weapons - the atomic bomb for example.

TRUE - but its not good to glorify war, radar for example - now has civil uses - cld have been invented for the right reason - its just that humans have this way of seeing certain 'advantages' and yes some of the R&D is funded and born from the war lording rich nations...

What athiest topic? Do you mean the religious debate?

moot point - it agrevates me the title is religious debate - yet it is about atheisists, or rather prove god exists debate - which is not in the OP - its rather open, yet parts of it get closed down - off topic here though

True, but there isn't much you can do about that.

I do my best not to be greedy and selfish, and it is taking its time to filter through on a national scale - 'I might need all my food and yours too, so dont expect any from me, and watch your back coz i'm gonna grab ours while your not looking - join me and I'll see you fed' This is the attitude that is crippling peace - that and noisey neighbours

First casualty of war is the truth

[akaslickster]

This needs to be pasted from Yoktado from sign up.

I feel the main barrier to world peace are the structures and religion. I'm not saying religion is a bad thing but for examplet he Isreal Palestine conflict is motivated by religion, and maybe if the holocaust hadn't happened Isreal would have had more international pressure. After all, for a conflict there has two be at least two sides, neither of them being 100% right.

Also, with teh so-called "war on terror", countries like Saudi Arabia seem to get away with human rights abuses beacuse they are an American/British ally. I feel and believe the only way to accomplish world peace is the cheesy respect for others mentatlity. For example, why does America feel that it has to spread Democracy by force. People have to want democracy for it to work. And then when democracy takes place, i.e Palestine when Hamas got elected, we don't accept it. America and America allies have to stop shaping the world, maybe then terrorism will stop.

Also the UN/AU etc have to be used more in peace roles in countries like ZImbabwae where teh political situation is on a knife-edge.

But then again, when should the UN be used?

Peace is a long way of my friends

--------------------

If I ruled the world, what units would I be?

[akaslickster]

I am pasting this for Ravi, our newest member. #29.

I am so glad to be here and would love it if we could contribute in some manner towards world peace. But what will it take to reach the Messengers of Terror (MoT). Because I strongly feel that it is their thinking that we need to change. I agree with Yoktado's assessment that it is religion - more than anything else that is creating these ruffles in the ocean of peace while the biggest culprits (The Politicians) are not affected by it with their high level of security. It is in fact the common man that has always got to bear the brunt of terror - be it in India, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq or anywhere else in the world.

Edit: Forgot to add my name

Edited August 19, 2008 by akaslickster

[phaze]

The reason I have not signed up for the peace club is that there is more than one view about what peace actually is

For me peace not the absence of war but rather the ability to grow/survive and flourish in spite of war.

Also for me this is attached to my beliefs. Those beliefs keep me sane in a world gone mad.

Sure those beliefs can be perverted and misused but before we start a "Down with Religion" war can we consider what peace is?

[phaze]

Why is it, when I reply to a thread is all goes strangely quiet??

[akaslickster]

Why is it, when I reply to a thread is all goes strangely quiet??

There must be a reason one would think. Maybe, you are not ready or interested in having the whole planet get along without conflict or bombs. Maybe you don't care. If you do get the desire to discuss world peace and how it can be beneficial to everyone then sign up in the corresponding thread.

This door is always open to people who believe in the power of peace. If your not sure what it is then

it would help to look it up. We need you to sign up before posting here. Thank you. Good day.

[grey cells]

The reason I have not signed up for the peace club is that there is more than one view about what peace actually is .For me peace not the absence of war but rather the ability to grow/survive and flourish in spite of war.

Also for me this is attached to my beliefs. Those beliefs keep me sane in a world gone mad.

Sure those beliefs can be perverted and misused but before we start a "Down with Religion" war can we consider what peace is?

Precisely. There should be more than one view. That's why there is a discussion.

Good point, Phaze. And we are not starting a "Down with Religion" war, we are just expressing our individual views on how war has started or is starting. And Religion is definitely one of the basis for starting wars. You cannot deny that, that's a fact.

And as Aka has said, please sign up first before posting. It's your decision to sign up or not. No one's forcing you. But seeing from your posts in Mafia VI, you should make a mighty swell member.

[phaze]

And Religion is definitely one of the basis for starting wars. You cannot deny that, that's a fact.

Is it?

Unless I have my 5th form History wrong

Look into the history of Palestine and you will see that there were a number of agreements after WW2

One promised it to the Jews (who had been mistreated during the War)

One promised it to the Palestinians

One claimed that Britain/America should split it between themselves

Look into Ireland. North Ireland was created because the British feared the potential of someone else using Ireland as a staging post to attack. They attacked Ireland. Ask an South Irish person if they have any love for England and you will know what I'm talking about.

Iraq - Oil

Basically they dress up greed and fear and hate really nice to sell them.

"We are liberating people"

"We are opposing tyranny"

"I do it because of our shared beliefs or passions" (be they religion or not)

The crusades and Spanish inquisition were built out of fear (they were dressed up really well)

What gets blamed for all this? Someone else's belief or passions (never our own)

The catalyst gets blamed

[akaslickster]

Is it?

Unless I have my 5th form History wrong

Look into the history of Palestine and you will see that there were a number of agreements after WW2

One promised it to the Jews (who had been mistreated during the War)

One promised it to the Palestinians

One claimed that Britain/America should split it between themselves

Look into Ireland. North Ireland was created because the British feared the potential of someone else using Ireland as a staging post to attack. They attacked Ireland. Ask an South Irish person if they have any love for England and you will know what I'm talking about.

Iraq - Oil

Basically they dress up greed and fear and hate really nice to sell them.

"We are liberating people"

"We are opposing tyranny"

"I do it because of our shared beliefs or passions" (be they religion or not)

The crusades and Spanish inquisition were built out of fear (they were dressed up really well)

What gets blamed for all this? Someone else's belief or passions (never our own)

The catalyst gets blamed

Phaze, my fellow member, in BD, I realize that you have alot to add to the discussion. This may

be very important to you, to express your opinion, however we, as a club will not be expecting you to join if you don't want to. In that case, we will expect you to start your own topic for your own discussion. We, as a club, are not begging you to join, yet, you may either sign up or start your own topic of whatever you desire. Please don't think this thread is for just any person to air their opinion at any old time. We as a club of almost 30 members share a common will of World Peace. I am not upset at all with you. I am asking you nicely to either join, or post elsewhere. Thank you, and Good day to you Phaze.

[phaze]

Phaze, my fellow member, in BD, I realize that you have alot to add to the discussion. This may

be very important to you, to express your opinion, however we, as a club will not be expecting you to join if you don't want to. In that case, we will expect you to start your own topic for your own discussion. We, as a club, are not begging you to join, yet, you may either sign up or start your own topic of whatever you desire. Please don't think this thread is for just any person to air their opinion at any old time. We as a club of almost 30 members share a common will of World Peace. I am not upset at all with you. I am asking you nicely to either join, or post elsewhere. Thank you, and Good day to you Phaze.

I respect your wishes and had joined before my previous posting. Sorry if I was out-of-line

[Guest]

If we all could just admit that we are racist a little bit, and everyone stopped being so PC, maybe we could live in harmony!

This was someone's signature.

It is bugging me a lot.

Yes we all are a bit racist but that is not a reason to green light racism, bigotry, and homophobia.

PC is a crock. Its called being respectful of people different than ourselves.

[akaslickster]

If we all could just admit that we are racist a little bit, and everyone stopped being so PC, maybe we could live in harmony!

This was someone's signature.

It is bugging me a lot.

Yes we all are a bit racist but that is not a reason to green light racism, bigotry, and homophobia.

PC is a crock. Its called being respectful of people different than ourselves.

Guessing that since I am anti devil worshipper and anti KKK, anti nazi, anti terrorist. That would mean that I am a racist. Good for me! Ha Ha! Edited August 20, 2008 by akaslickster

[phaze]

Guessing that since I am anti devil worshipper and anti KKK, anti nazi, anti terrorist. That would mean that I am a racist. Good for me! Ha Ha!

Yes, that would be evidence of it

There are very few people without some form of prejudice (I fear I am not in that number)

[unreality]

Phaze, you said the 'catalyst is blamed', as in 'religion is blamed unjustly'. But a catalyst of conflict should be blamed- a catalyst of a conflict by definition is what starts the conflict. Religion starts wars, starts suffering, starts bigotry. It starts in-group/out-group hatred and world unstability. Like GC said, that cannot be denied. Yes, religion is often used an excuse for many conflicts, but just as many (probably more) are directly caused by religion, and those that interpret/misinterpret it

[unreality]

Phaze, you said the 'catalyst is blamed', as in 'religion is blamed unjustly'. But a catalyst of conflict should be blamed- a catalyst of a conflict by definition is what starts the conflict. Religion starts wars, starts suffering, starts bigotry. It starts in-group/out-group hatred and world unstability. Like GC said, that cannot be denied. Yes, religion is often used an excuse for many conflicts, but just as many (probably more) are directly caused by religion, and those that interpret/misinterpret it

this was my response to someone on page 2 that claimed that religion no longer started wars:

I disagree- I don't disagree that religion is used as a scapegoat to cover up the real reasons behind certain, but you can't just make a sweeping statement like that- it's not true of all wars just because it is of some. See some of my posts on page 1, but I'd also like to add that some wars have religion as an excuse, like you said, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable, and it shouldn't. I know you weren't saying it was (lol this is pro-peace), I'm just saying that fact doesn't make religion look any better. A very high percentage of those in favor of the war in Iraq (I'm speaking of Americans here) are pro-Bush and pro-religion (very religious). Again, I said 'high percentage', it's not like everyone is, there are different reasons to support the war (I don't support it, even though I said some wars may be necessary- not the Iraq war), but most that do are religious and much of those are Republicans, and it ties together

Anyway, that's in the cases of "non-religious wars under the banner of religion". You said that the age of crusades is over. It's far from over. One look at the Middle East can tell you that. Sure, this war is for land, that war is for no reason, this war is for terrorism... but the land, the reasons, the terrorism.... all those roots are religion. And then the majority of the rest are religion through and through. Holy land, holy cities, promised temples, biblical land ("been ours since <insert biblical figure doing something biblical>"), holy books, disputes about religions, even the tiniest points in the religion (Suuni and Shi'ite (sp?) sects of Islam, etc) can cause bloody feuds because "our holy book, which is the only right one, says X, yours says Y, time to die!" lol. It's impossible to ignore the negative impact of religion in the Middle East (and it's not confined just to the Middle East, but a lot is centered there). Sure, wars started by the US or big powers can't hope to be for religious reasons, but these rivalries in the Middle East are. It all stems from religion... and each race/religion's holy book somehow says that their god proclaimed that that specific race/religion is the only rightful one. Hmmmm.... lol. A little bit of coincidence there methinks ;D

anyway, this isn't a debate on religion, but of its effects on war and feuds and violence, even today. The time of crusades is far from over, which is why pro-peace topics like these are more important than ever

Edited August 21, 2008 by unreality

[phaze]

Actually I agree that beliefs (when misused) can start wars. They are very powerful and can be used to rally people.

As a forum you have already proved that they can be too easily misused

Ladies and Gentleman

What you have held in your hand for a number of days is one of the seeds to religion.

The seed of peace.

Many religions are based precisely on this concept.

Already we have made judgements, marginilised and maligned others on the basis of thier belief (or in Unreality case what he doesn't believe)

The seeds of conflict

Basically without any outside involment the human race is F****D (hmm, I don't swear in real life)

This is why I have established the beliefs I have.

The road to peace is a lot harder than many of you are prepared for

It involves not disarming the nuclear weapons that "protect" our countries,

but disarming the weapons and wall we have placed in our hearts to "protect" ourselves.

The weapons that claim "I'm right, and you are wrong", "I have more value than you", "I hate you because you are a serial murdering psyco (or worse)"

Disarming these weapons is not for everyone as it carries a huge risk. The risk that you may be abused, misrepresented or thought badly of.

If even after that disclaimer you are still interested in peace here is some of the first steps

Crazy Painter, I am sorry if I have contibuted to any of your fear of "relgious" people. Understand this I value you because you have a different lifestyle. Even though it may give away your next mafia role. You are Da Bomb!

Unreality, I value you and what you have to say. It is necessary for to have people who believe differently to I do so I can see things from another angle. I am sorry if anything I have done or said has offended you.

Slick, I am sorry that I went fishing in this forum (and you ended up taking the bait). I realise that you want to promote peace and not be antagonised by people like me.

LIS, Puzzlegirl, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, I realise now that your voices should be heard even if some may claim it is whining

I have met a lot of nice people here on BrainDen and just cause I have missed you out does no mak you any less valuable, If anything I have said has touched raw nerve I appologise. I need to be really careful right now because I am at work, if I burst out in tears I could get in trouble.

As I don't think soapboxing is such a good idea on BD this will be my last post to this thread. I hope I will see you guys again. If not live well

[akaslickster]

No need to apologize because I want you to have a chance to voice your opinion regardless if we dig it or not.

Our goal is to promote world peace. So not to worry because we are welcome to ignore what is written if we like.

You are just stuck on the religion kick. Many others are as well. People are people and all is understandable. If it is in your heart to get along internationally with all of the world then you have gotten through the hardest wall. If little things get in the way of creating a peaceful environment then, they can be cast out or ignored. Think about what you really want in your life unselfishly and, you may see the light in all of this. Peace Out.

[Guest]

Phaze, you said the 'catalyst is blamed', as in 'religion is blamed unjustly'. But a catalyst of conflict should be blamed- a catalyst of a conflict by definition is what starts the conflict. Religion starts wars, starts suffering, starts bigotry. It starts in-group/out-group hatred and world unstability. Like GC said, that cannot be denied. Yes, religion is often used an excuse for many conflicts, but just as many (probably more) are directly caused by religion, and those that interpret/misinterpret it

That's always been my point of view re grouping - incast/outcast in general .... so if your not in peace club, you are not for peace ?????? ..... now that's interesting

Obviously I'm joshing but every group has it's own segragation and you could say it is self inflicted - I'm for Friendhsip and Humanity - by saying that, am I asking you for support of stating a fact?

[akaslickster]

Greetings everyone! I have noticed that we have many pages along with 30 members. Members are all welcome to read and quote any of these opinions by others. Don't be shy. If you are too busy, then, we will understand. We want everyone to speak their peace. Now is your chance to stand your ground and maybe list some ways we can push this out into the open instead of under a rug. The only one way to make a statement is to type it out and post for the good of World Peace.

I signed up in order to be heard or read in this case. How about ideas to convince a lot more people that this is the route to take. War will never end if we are stand-offish about it. Lets hear from all of the other members of this group who have not yet participated. Please. If you have the time.

[unreality]

hey phaze don't go anywhere! I was having fun discussing this with you

What you have held in your hand for a number of days is one of the seeds to religion.

The seed of peace.

Many religions are based precisely on this concept.

I agree- many religions are based upon peaceful ideals. Many more aren't. Buddhism and Taosim are based on peace- and you don't see Buddhist or Taoist terrorists. Now take Islam, Christianity, etc- those claim to be based on peace, but one look at their holy books and it's really not. It doesn't matter whether they're right or wrong, what matters is that they advocate peace... but only toward your fellow believers. Toward your fellow Israelites (in the case of the OT). Everyone else burns in hell and deserves to die in bloody crusades. Those crusades still continue today, just the means change, from open wars to terrorism, from swords to explosives & guns. A major step toward world peace would be to "calm down" the religious warfare and religious leaders and sects and holy land claims

Basically without any outside involment the human race is F****D (hmm, I don't swear in real life)

This is why I have established the beliefs I have.

"Unless I get a spoonful of spaghetti on top of my head soon, I will die... the only thing that can drop a spoonful of spaghetti on my head is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Therefore I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster"

that's almost as bad as saying you believe in a religion because of the heaven they offer

The road to peace is a lot harder than many of you are prepared for

It involves not disarming the nuclear weapons that "protect" our countries,

but disarming the weapons and wall we have placed in our hearts to "protect" ourselves.

The weapons that claim "I'm right, and you are wrong", "I have more value than you", "I hate you because you are a serial murdering psyco (or worse)"

I agree- people have to let go of the labels and superstitions in which they hold themselves as somehow "better" than other people. I am an atheist, but I respect theist. I don't respect their beliefs, and usually they were just told to do this from a very young age, but I DO repsect them. We need more mutual respect and more love in this world

Disarming these weapons is not for everyone as it carries a huge risk. The risk that you may be abused, misrepresented or thought badly of.

I agree- many atheists still go to their church because they are afraid of the "backlash" if they drop out. It takes bravery to distinguish from the pack

If even after that disclaimer you are still interested in peace here is some of the first steps

Crazy Painter, I am sorry if I have contibuted to any of your fear of "relgious" people. Understand this I value you because you have a different lifestyle. Even though it may give away your next mafia role. You are Da Bomb!

Unreality, I value you and what you have to say. It is necessary for to have people who believe differently to I do so I can see things from another angle. I am sorry if anything I have done or said has offended you.

Slick, I am sorry that I went fishing in this forum (and you ended up taking the bait). I realise that you want to promote peace and not be antagonised by people like me.

LIS, Puzzlegirl, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, I realise now that your voices should be heard even if some may claim it is whining

Nice steps toward world peace ;D The first step begins with yourself, as some wise guy probably said once lol. Though you dont have anything to apologize for

Unreality, I value you and what you have to say. It is necessary for to have people who believe differently to I do so I can see things from another angle. I am sorry if anything I have done or said has offended you.

You haven't offended me at all. I enjoy conversations about religion, with both other atheists and religious people (helping them become more self-aware in what kinds of things they actually believe in)

slick: yeah it's skyrocketed. Which is a good thing of course People may not think so, but little things like the Brainden Peace Club do make a difference ;D

[akaslickster]

I will only say one thing. You can throw all the religion in that you care to. The one thing you are neglecting is the idea beyond a particular belief, that is the world peace issue. Can one put aside the religion for just a minute to say, HEY , I WISH THIS WHOLE ENTIRE PLANET WOULD STOP KILLING EACHOTHER FOR NO JUSTIFIABLE AND DECENT REASON!

Is it too hard to give in to what would be mutually cool for all? Is it better for death and destruction? Curiously.

[Guest]

Well, doing what's mutually good for all can actually be a bit confusing.

Hate to use someone else's argument, but on some other thread (it's been a while since I've read it, so I don't know the OP or the title) there is a discussion on whether helping certain people is really a good thing.

What i mean is, saving lives and working to end hunger only contributes to the growing overpopulation we seem to have going.

If it's not controlled soon, then there will be serious repurcussions. Communicable diseases will spread like wildfire, and famine will come to haunt us again.

We can't preserve every life on this planet, and eventually, someone will get the short end of the straw (Insert a better analogy here... or was that a metaphor?)

Perhaps if we find a way to thin out the population density of.. well.. Earth. Or start living on other planets. Then we can live in world peace afterward.

But even then, the population must remain in check, whether, like Unreality said (in the other thread) by controlling our reproduction, and decreasing how many babies people have.

Or by any other means.

This wasn't my initial reason for thinking that world peace is an idealism, but it still gives you something to think about.

Apologies if I offended anyone.. I don't think I said anything to offend, but, you can't be too careful

peace

[Guest]

Well, doing what's mutually good for all can actually be a bit confusing.

Hate to use someone else's argument, but on some other thread (it's been a while since I've read it, so I don't know the OP or the title) there is a discussion on whether helping certain people is really a good thing.

What i mean is, saving lives and working to end hunger only contributes to the growing overpopulation we seem to have going.

If it's not controlled soon, then there will be serious repurcussions. Communicable diseases will spread like wildfire, and famine will come to haunt us again.

We can't preserve every life on this planet, and eventually, someone will get the short end of the straw (Insert a better analogy here... or was that a metaphor?)

Perhaps if we find a way to thin out the population density of.. well.. Earth. Or start living on other planets. Then we can live in world peace afterward.

But even then, the population must remain in check, whether, like Unreality said (in the other thread) by controlling our reproduction, and decreasing how many babies people have.

Or by any other means.

This wasn't my initial reason for thinking that world peace is an idealism, but it still gives you something to think about.

Apologies if I offended anyone.. I don't think I said anything to offend, but, you can't be too careful

peace

[akaslickster]

Well, doing what's mutually good for all can actually be a bit confusing.

Hate to use someone else's argument, but on some other thread (it's been a while since I've read it, so I don't know the OP or the title) there is a discussion on whether helping certain people is really a good thing.

What i mean is, saving lives and working to end hunger only contributes to the growing overpopulation we seem to have going.

If it's not controlled soon, then there will be serious repurcussions. Communicable diseases will spread like wildfire, and famine will come to haunt us again.

We can't preserve every life on this planet, and eventually, someone will get the short end of the straw (Insert a better analogy here... or was that a metaphor?)

Perhaps if we find a way to thin out the population density of.. well.. Earth. Or start living on other planets. Then we can live in world peace afterward.

But even then, the population must remain in check, whether, like Unreality said (in the other thread) by controlling our reproduction, and decreasing how many babies people have.

Or by any other means.

This wasn't my initial reason for thinking that world peace is an idealism, but it still gives you something to think about.

Apologies if I offended anyone.. I don't think I said anything to offend, but, you can't be too careful

peace

I believe you misinterpreted the point that I was making. My insinuation was to stop killing innocent and even baddies in real life. People will continue to multiply regardless of war etc. The mutualness, mind you, would be no one living in fear of their life because of idiotic rage. I would not make babies if I knew they would not live to see their 3rd B-day. That is another subject for a new topic if you want.

I will exclaim that with the money spent on weaponry and nuclear crapola, it can be used for ones who are alive today and used for repairing what insane wars had removed from their lives.

My scenario thought, is to stop the wars and then work on everything else which needs major attention.

Let's not start on other planets until we have this one up to par. I could never overlook a catastrophe and proceed via neglectfulness while running away from what garbage still exists. Always put on clean clothes after you take a shower. If you understand my common sense mode. Never sweep the dirt under the carpet because it will still be there. First and foremost is to correct the worst of the problem by stopping the bloodshed of our beloved kin. Then repair time can come quickly afterwards. Peace is the only answer that I can see. If anyone else would like to continue this discussion, then sign up as a member and you will be allowed to post here. There is no pressure whatsoever, so if you have a will to be peaceful then Voila!

Edited August 23, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

Been trying to find where this expression came from,

Society shows us what we are

Solittude tells us what we should be

Its easy to say the right things on forums and be PC, but it's another to practise it ... regarding over population - as usual Ploper makes a great points and Unreality too - Nature is not gomma give us a pass into the next round - unfortunately testostorine is the controller of human nature - interesting to see what would happen if this was reduced or it's effect removed .. would that make us a better human or un/in-human??

Seaking a god or seaking peace, first seak truth - LIS/Phil O'Sophy