[Guest]

Sign up to peace club in the sign-up thread!

This thread is for discussions on what you think about peace.

I haven't said where I stand yet, so I'll start off.

Not long ago I was one of those cynics who thought peace "ain't gonna happen", and that you need war to really feel the true value of proper peace. But it was easy for me to say that because I've never had to live in a wartorn country in fear for my life. In the past few few weeks my view has changed a lot. I think if we can stop our wars with our fellow man, let's. War is unnecessary.

Edited August 13, 2008 by lemonymelon

[akaslickster]

Okay. I must say I am a firm believer in peace but, I am not an anti-war activist. I don't want to let terror bomb me and then walk away free either. Peace should happen throughout the planet and I want all to hear it so all wars will end and there is a getting along internationally. I would prefer no war ever. If someone hits me I need to defend myself so I guess Drydung is more active about it. I would like to promote all peace without wars, but, it seems too late in i.e. like Palestine. War should be avoided at all costs.

Basically I am a peace promoter and want to show all that it is the correct way to live. That is so not too have any more stupid wars than we already have now. I do not demonstrate with signs and rallies and picketing or rioting about it. I don't have the time for that so let's try just by starting to pass the word around until we can think of what this club should be up to. We can start by adding peaceful signatures I suppose.

Please do not comment unless you are a signed member of this club.

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Edited August 13, 2008 by akaslickster

[akaslickster]

Transferring from the sign-up thread.

Dear all,

No matter who bombs whom, its terror. Depending on our perspectives and convenience we sometimes call it war, sometimes terror. And it will be childish to say that "they started it". Point is throughout the last century we were always in a state of war without exception of a single year; we need to stop it. When we drop a bomb for whatever purpose and in whatever name we kill people, innocent ordinary people who have no idea about what big game is going on in this world. You have every right to protect yourself but that doesn't justify bombing and obliterating an entire country just because some organisation has terrorised you. Anyone serious in political science knows that we don't go to war to counter terror; those are convenient eyewash. There is always a political purpose. Anyway, we are not going to discuss that here. What I propose is this: in the name of this peace club we can form a platform based on consensus. No matter who, when, where started it, this continuation of war and terror cannot be an acceptable way of life. This is just not normal and we need to be vocal about it. A handful of people on either side has no right to impose a perverse world order upon us. So let us say, "no to war, no to terror". If you say it today, someone else will say it tomorrow. And I don't think we need to be an anti-war activist to say that. What do you say?

Yeah! I agree that the governments or more to the point political parties of most countries, if not all, fund some terrorist organizations indirectly. In some cases, it is an internal struggle for power, in others dominance over other nations to gain economic supremacy. The terrorist organizations, in most cases, are neutral. By neutral, I mean where there's money, there lies their loyalty too.

And we must not forget the successful industrialists with multi-national interests, who manipulate the governments of nations and are thus responsible for various terrorist activities.

And next comes terrorist organizations in the name of freedom fighters. They say that for the ultimate goal of freedom, slaughtering of numerous innocents is a necessity.

And I say there would be no war, when there's no corruption. As long as there's corruption

, war is inevitable.

Corruption is the root cause for every violent activity. That's my viewpoint.

Edited August 13, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

Well, I don't really know a whole lot about the subject, but there ae a few things I would like to say. I think war is unecessary, but it does have advantages. Major technological advancements are made when there are wars. Not all are necissarily good, but some are. The internet, for example, started out as a military project that developed into something huge.

But this discussion isn't about war, at least not more than it is about peace. As I said in the sign-up thread: why can't the world be more like BrainDen? We are just a small group of people from all over the world, and yet there are no prejudices on here. It doesn't matter who you are or where you're from, everyone will accept you(unless you're a jerk ). Why can't the world be more like that? BD is just a group of intelligent people that come together to discuss, and while it is mostly about puzzles, there are other, more serious topics on here, such as this one. And yet we manage to get along.

[Guest]

I agree with Frost. It's puzzling to see why the world cannot get along with each other. Is it some inner human instinct to wage warfare with another being? Are we so used to wars that we think that we are destined to fight forever? The world could get along perfectly fine without any fighting, although people cannot seem to accept that...

[unreality]

We are selfish beings, it's in our evolutionary nature, but we've also evolved to love and be nice, because that tends to cause less conflict and people survive longer. So let's just hope that people that are pro-war lose their anger or whatever, and we can all be peaceful

[unreality]

I'd also like to add that many wars, especially in the Middle East, are caused or at least fueled by religion. All of the world religions and other large ethnic groups and "banners" need to unite and stop fighting each other over silly holy book rules that were written thousands of years ago

[Guest]

Well, I don't really know a whole lot about the subject, but there ae a few things I would like to say. I think war is unecessary, but it does have advantages. Major technological advancements are made when there are wars. Not all are necissarily good, but some are. The internet, for example, started out as a military project that developed into something huge.

I thought Al Gore invented the internet...

[Guest]

I'd also like to add that many wars, especially in the Middle East, are caused or at least fueled by religion. All of the world religions and other large ethnic groups and "banners" need to unite and stop fighting each other over silly holy book rules that were written thousands of years ago

I completely agree. and if you look at religion, seriously investigate all religions, they all say essentially the same thing. Yeah, the differ on certain rules and traditions, but the general structure of it is the same. AND, I say this as a female who grew up going to Sunday school and learning the Bible, the holy books were written by MEN thousands of years ago. Although the concepts may be good lessons, details to the nth degree shouldn't be scrutinized. It's sad how many arguments and wars begin over these nuances.

[unreality]

I completely agree. and if you look at religion, seriously investigate all religions, they all say essentially the same thing. Yeah, the differ on certain rules and traditions, but the general structure of it is the same. AND, I say this as a female who grew up going to Sunday school and learning the Bible, the holy books were written by MEN thousands of years ago. Although the concepts may be good lessons, details to the nth degree shouldn't be scrutinized. It's sad how many arguments and wars begin over these nuances.

I agree- most are sexist (except Shintoism ying-yang etc) and are centered around "my tribe is the ultimate god-given race and has the moral right to extinguish our enemies and rape their women", which doesn't translate well into modern times

[Guest]

I believe in peace and promoting peace. That is why when I notice someone being ignorant about their actions, and the ramification of those actions, I bring it up. For example, the 'discussion' I had previously with some braindenziens about how hurtful some words can be.

Peace is a great concept to think of in chat rooms and online in general cause you cant tell what a person means through text.

I try to assume all people are kind and not intending to be mean. Hence, I dont swear here or use the WTF. But that is just me.

Being a true bringer or promoter of peace is to peacefully bring to others attention that what they are doing is hurtful.

I am not talking about being politically correct. I am talking of real ramifications of ignorant bigotry. Ignorant means

lacking knowledge or awareness. So I refer to people who dont realize they are being a bigot.

[Guest]

I completely agree. and if you look at religion, seriously investigate all religions, they all say essentially the same thing. Yeah, the differ on certain rules and traditions, but the general structure of it is the same. AND, I say this as a female who grew up going to Sunday school and learning the Bible, the holy books were written by MEN thousands of years ago. Although the concepts may be good lessons, details to the nth degree shouldn't be scrutinized. It's sad how many arguments and wars begin over these nuances.

I dont think the root of all this is the bible or religion.

I think that there is a need for a certain person or people who want something and they will use

a religion to give their point of view validity.

You can prove anything by using a certain version of the bible.

And who really knows if it was translated correctly?

Ex. Michelangelo's statue of Moses with the horns. The word horns and rays

were so close they got misstranslated. Yet, men found a way to make it work

and make sense.

[akaslickster]

I realize that I can't be here all of the time to view what is going on. So another reminder that religion speeches or other type similar need to visit the never ending debate thread. We have all walks of life here and this thread is particularly for world peace discussion. Thank you all for keeping with the topic.

[grey cells]

I agree that religion is a basis for war. Or rather a comfortable pretense for starting a war. India would be an ideal example. I myself don't know the number of sub-castes in India. It's as if Hinduism, has so many sub-castes that spread out like poisonous tentacles. The political parties in India lean back on this cushion of sub-castes, and start of mini-wars between the castes , using terrorism as a medium. I am strongly of the opinion that terrorists are formed and developed by these greedy, downright cheap politicians' political maneuvers.

I may going out too far, but the recent bomb blasts that shook India, followed closely on the heels of the nuclear treaty discussion, which took place in the parliament. I am not in favor of any political party, but I am of the opinion that these bomb blasts took place to denigrate and make a mockery of the security system under the ruling party. Of course, all of this is mere hypothesis, but that's not to say it can't be true. As long as the political parties rule the countries, making a show as if they are the Messiahs of the people, Democracy will be just a word, nothing more than that.

[Guest]

I think war is unecessary, but it does have advantages. Major technological advancements are made when there are wars. Not all are necissarily good, but some are. The internet, for example, started out as a military project that developed into something huge.

Dear frost your point is interesting at the same time quite unexpected, but I don’t think that you are saying if US military were not there, we would not be having internet today. True it developed as a defence project just like many other technological developments in many countries, but I would like to see it from a different angle. I don’t know whether you will agree, but I think we are living in a somewhat cynical world with too much obsession with national security. All developed countries, along with some third world countries, spend disproportionately high amount of money in defence research through both accounted and unaccounted channels. Every technological progress must go through the military scanner first. If such a technological progress has a potential to provide the military an edge over its enemies then it will be inaccessible to the masses and all kinds of secrecy will be maintained. It will be developed under the control of military and civilian scientists hardly manage to get access to that technology. This is not to undermine the importance of national security or military, but we need to be careful about distinguishing between ‘requirement’ and ‘obsession’. In many cases this obsession and secrecy act as a hindrance to the percolation of knowledge. Anyway I am not going to discuss it anymore in this forum as it would be a distraction from the topic.

Now with due permission of aka I would like to make a point about religion. No I am not starting a debate on religion but many of us seem to believe that in today’s world religion plays a central role in wars. I would like to say that today’s wars are not about religion. I mean the cause is not religion. Religion has been abused conveniently either to justify a war such that the true reasons never come up in front of the masses or to discredit the enemy. The days of holy crusades are long over. There are religious fanatics but they are not in a position to wage war; people are more conscious today. The real reasons are always economic. It is all about gaining control over natural resources. Today it is for oil, gas; may be tomorrow it will be for water. And we kill millions to get hold of that treasure and make profit. We kill them so that they cannot use that resource but we can. And who are ‘we’? We are the corporate big houses. Should I say, government is now of the corporate, by the corporate, for the corporate? Who cares? We run the government. And governments in the name of patriotism, national security, WMD (and there are many other names varying from country to country) uses the soldiers to fight the war for corporate. But we don’t want the masses to know all these. So time to time we tickle the religious sentiments, subtly create some sensationalism so that people don’t see the grand plan. Let them stay out of focus. In the meantime let’s make profit.

[unreality]

I disagree- I don't disagree that religion is used as a scapegoat to cover up the real reasons behind certain, but you can't just make a sweeping statement like that- it's not true of all wars just because it is of some. See some of my posts on page 1, but I'd also like to add that some wars have religion as an excuse, like you said, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable, and it shouldn't. I know you weren't saying it was (lol this is pro-peace), I'm just saying that fact doesn't make religion look any better. A very high percentage of those in favor of the war in Iraq (I'm speaking of Americans here) are pro-Bush and pro-religion (very religious). Again, I said 'high percentage', it's not like everyone is, there are different reasons to support the war (I don't support it, even though I said some wars may be necessary- not the Iraq war), but most that do are religious and much of those are Republicans, and it ties together

Anyway, that's in the cases of "non-religious wars under the banner of religion". You said that the age of crusades is over. It's far from over. One look at the Middle East can tell you that. Sure, this war is for land, that war is for no reason, this war is for terrorism... but the land, the reasons, the terrorism.... all those roots are religion. And then the majority of the rest are religion through and through. Holy land, holy cities, promised temples, biblical land ("been ours since <insert biblical figure doing something biblical>"), holy books, disputes about religions, even the tiniest points in the religion (Suuni and Shi'ite (sp?) sects of Islam, etc) can cause bloody feuds because "our holy book, which is the only right one, says X, yours says Y, time to die!" lol. It's impossible to ignore the negative impact of religion in the Middle East (and it's not confined just to the Middle East, but a lot is centered there). Sure, wars started by the US or big powers can't hope to be for religious reasons, but these rivalries in the Middle East are. It all stems from religion... and each race/religion's holy book somehow says that their god proclaimed that that specific race/religion is the only rightful one. Hmmmm.... lol. A little bit of coincidence there methinks ;D

anyway, this isn't a debate on religion, but of its effects on war and feuds and violence, even today. The time of crusades is far from over, which is why pro-peace topics like these are more important than ever

[Guest]

I'm skeptic on most issues of war. However, I can say that I fully promote America in it's ways. Look how many religions and freedoms we have in it, and there have been no civil wars other than one not related to religion whatsoever. We may have lead some stupid attacks, but I seriously think America has one of the clearest perspectives as of what the world should be like.

and what is peace club all about, anyways? is it just a group of people who all hate war?

oh, and in reply to someone who asked something along the lines of "why can't the world be like brainden? we have diversity, and not wars." excelent point. but we do dissagree...and that's the closest to war we can get. can you punch me in the face? no. but in all seriousness, I think if the world had sufficiant communication like us and good parenting, there'd be a much safer world.

[akaslickster]

I had a feeling that religion would come up more than ever before. Well, in order for this or any kind of world peace to have its chance to work, is for one and every to stop the one way thinking. i.e. thinking they are more important than other people because of their traditional old fashioned thinking and belief style. It is that stick in mud attitude that keeps people separated and feuding constantly. I'm not mentioning any one group in particular but, the people who only think of themselves, know who they are. I may be nice and safe in this place I call home. I don't forget, that in other places in the world, there is much slaughter of human-lives. I would never let a type of religion, or non-religion, stand in my way to help those in need of survival, and a home to live in that is safe from cruddy war.

I happen to believe that there are many, many, more people who think as I do on that subject. As i've heard in the past, a war is not necessary to start any peace. If the people in the high places, would simply deal with the problems in a non-conflictive manner and negotiate peace on any other type of term beside war. Give a little land, take a little land be it. I don't see them even giving it a second thought. They are all trigger happy nowadays. Because it is not their family on the front line. The talks are some times successful, treaties,etc. It just is not enough cooperation and feeling.

[akaslickster]

Wow, it is surprising that no one has anything to add to this club. I have a short story that I would like to air.

I grew up in a place where it was segregated. The nationalities were all in one place and that is still going on today. People had only wanted to live with their own skin color. I thought at a young age, something is up. The nazis were around and I was expected to go along with their ideas. I was too small to fight against this propaganda crudola. I never thought that color was an issue until I met others that actually swear by this way of living. I think it was wrong

for people to not get along in a racial barrier. I was one of the people in the area who helped break this biasness.

I communicated and hung around all of the different nationalities that I cared to be with. I was lucky not to be killed as a traitor. I found that neighborhood peace is a possibility, between races. Why can't countries experiment in a similar

aspect. The only way to respect one another is to have some quality time with eachother to see what is acceptable and not. I still believe that if war- people would just give it a chance and knock out the bigotry, there could be PEACE!!!

[Guest]

Wow, it is surprising that no one has anything to add to this club. I have a short story that I would like to air.

I grew up in a place where it was segregated. The nationalities were all in one place and that is still going on today. People had only wanted to live with their own skin color. I thought at a young age, something is up. The nazis were around and I was expected to go along with their ideas. I was too small to fight against this propaganda crudola. I never thought that color was an issue until I met others that actually swear by this way of living. I think it was wrong

for people to not get along in a racial barrier. I was one of the people in the area who helped break this biasness.

I communicated and hung around all of the different nationalities that I cared to be with. I was lucky not to be killed as a traitor. I found that neighborhood peace is a possibility, between races. Why can't countries experiment in a similar

aspect. The only way to respect one another is to have some quality time with eachother to see what is acceptable and not. I still believe that if war- people would just give it a chance and knock out the bigotry, there could be PEACE!!!

I think, well for people in my area at least, religion does play a part in who we live with, but more for convenience than discrimination, i think. In my area of the city, most of the people are Muslim Asians but there are Hindu and Sikh people too. There are very few White people and Black people. When Asians immigrated to the country in the 60s and 70s, they came for better lives and industry. It was easier for all the Muslims to stay together. There weren't any mosques back then and so they needed to be built. Even though people of the same ethnicity tend to stay together in areas, Birmingham, the city where I live is very multi-cultural, and people of different religions and cultures get on very well. However, I know there is bigotry; it is just more behind closed doors. This issue is something that needs tackling.

[Guest]

I think, well for people in my area at least, religion does play a part in who we live with, but more for convenience than discrimination, i think. In my area of the city, most of the people are Muslim Asians but there are Hindu and Sikh people too. There are very few White people and Black people. When Asians immigrated to the country in the 60s and 70s, they came for better lives and industry. It was easier for all the Muslims to stay together. There weren't any mosques back then and so they needed to be built. Even though people of the same ethnicity tend to stay together in areas, Birmingham, the city where I live is very multi-cultural, and people of different religions and cultures get on very well. However, I know there is bigotry; it is just more behind closed doors. This issue is something that needs tackling.

Hey LM I have been to Brum! My cousin lives with his partner near Wells. Oh now I want a Balti..

We are talking of tolerance here but what about acceptance?? I have been the target of bigotry and homophobia.

It is amazing how the stupidity/ignorance of a few can just pummle your self esteem.

This is why if I see someone type a harmful word I try to tell them nicely about the ramifications of their actions.

Namaste

CP

[Guest]

.. a few things I would like to say. I think war is unecessary, but it does have advantages.

and that wld be reducing the world population???

Major technological advancements are made when there are wars. Not all are necissarily good, but some are. The internet, for example, started out as a military project that developed into something huge.

it was used for that purpose but cld have been put to peaceful use only - as cld dynamite

Aircraft too invented for war purpose - as was spying man made kites - its just the bad of mans imagination

But this discussion isn't about war, at least not more than it is about peace.

if we do not understand the wars and causes we will never reach peace - can try the dutch method of openness - full disclosure as with drugs and prostitution (there's an idea - drug and entertain men and they wont need to go to war )

As I said in the sign-up thread: why can't the world be more like BrainDen? We are just a small group of people from all over the world, and yet there are no prejudices on here.

mafia VI , atheist topic

It doesn't matter who you are or where you're from, everyone will accept you(unless you're a jerk )

wld be nice, but the haves have the have nots have not and they want what the haves have too and the haves don't want to share (generalising)

Why can't the world be more like that? BD is just a group of intelligent people that come together to discuss, and while it is mostly about puzzles, there are other, more serious topics on here, such as this one. And yet we manage to get along.

so that's in sign up thread and twice on here - me being picky - sorry frost !

basically ppl need to be humanitarian - not disatisfied/hopeful idealists or realist accepting their fate

wrenched my shoulder being humanitarian - fighting a police two horses about to squash kids

[Guest]

Way to over-analyze my comment LIS.

and that wld be reducing the world population???

I never said that. I told you what the advantage was in the next sentence. Besides, I never said wars were good, I was just pointing out they aren't entirely bad.

it was used for that purpose but cld have been put to peaceful use only - as cld dynamite

Aircraft too invented for war purpose - as was spying man made kites - its just the bad of mans imagination

Some of the technology that comes out of war is advantageous, and couldn't necessarily come about in the same way without it. The start of the internet was an attempt to gain an advantage in a war, people don't have that incentive when they are in peace(at least not as much). And yes, there are a lot of bad technologies that come out of war, especially weapons - the atomic bomb for example.

if we do not understand the wars and causes we will never reach peace

I know that, but it seemed like some people wanted to stay away from the discussion of war and more on the discussion of peace.

mafia VI , atheist topic

Mafia isn't prejudiced(well, maybe a little ). What athiest topic? Do you mean the religious debate?

wld be nice, but the haves have the have nots have not and they want what the haves have too and the haves don't want to share (generalising)

True, but there isn't much you can do about that.

so that's in sign up thread and twice on here - me being picky - sorry frost !

It's fine, I just though it would be good to point it out in the discussion thread as well.

[akaslickster]

Make a list of all the so-called good points of war and we will make a list of the negative bad points.

Guess which sensable list will be twice as long? No further questions. There is no contest.

[Guest]

Make a list of all the so-called good points of war and we will make a list of the negative bad points.

Guess which sensable list will be twice as long? No further questions. There is no contest.

Oh, I know that the list of bad things would be longer. Much, much longer. I just thought I would point out an upside. If we are to discuss it at all, we need to examine both sides.

[akaslickster]

Oh, I know that the list of bad things would be longer. Much, much longer. I just thought I would point out an upside. If we are to discuss it at all, we need to examine both sides.

Thank you. Now to examine the cruddy side, would very much disencourage people from the discussion itself. I would love for everything to go everyones way. It simply does'nt work that way. World Peace is a goal for this entire club, I will believe. War is good for Mafia games and other non-reality items. I don't mean to be a jag, but, the reason why I'm able to type at this moment is because I am alive today.

I chose not to join the US Marines after high school and work instead, in my town. My friend was destroyed in the Gulf war. I was not there to help. I have gotten over it. I am still remembering that it was not called for. Chemical warfare is very deadly. I wish I could erase the darn war. I had friends from Viet Nam with not much brain matter left, in spite of the war. Some are not able to collect reasonable compensation from the darn government that forced them in it. They struggle every day.

The one thing about war that is good to people is that they think WOW we can blow up the entire planet with the nuclear stuff available to them. So why should you have to brush your teeth in the morning if death is that much easier? Tell me why in detail, war is in any way beneficial to anyone.Hello?