[Guest]

Ilove making friends on brainden but sometimes friends are really mean to me that is why I have a boyfriend to protect me!

[tolecnal]

the physical side is the bit that can be worked on, and that is part of the fun - i married my first - it suited me to keep it working at the relationship, but not her!

Vinegar also works for bee stings - urine works for jellyfish stings - but not a boxjellyfish - thats when you know who your friends are - eeeww!!

Yea, but you can have fun working at both the physical and not-physical part of a relationship without being married.

[Guest]

CP! Your advice about the vinegar is great stuff! Never knew that! PG, I respect your opinion, but also disagree. I personally do not believe you can truly know someone without being with them intimately (not that that is how I introduce myself, mind you ) so having sex before marriage is a must for me, I refuse to invite someone into my life without knowing what kind of lover they'll be, but that's just me and I agree, it isn't for anyone. Besides, what about those of us who refuse or cannot get married?

Tolecnal,

I agree that you should have sex with the one you'll marry b4 the engagement, not only to see if they are a good lover but how they are afterwards.

Are they giving? Can they take criticism? Are they passive aggressive?

Do they fart in bed? *we all do**

Edited August 12, 2008 by crazypainter

[tolecnal]

Exactly! And can they take you farting in the bed, etc.

*I can't wait for Mafia to start...I really hate continuing Tigers topic...

[akaslickster]

Exactly! And can they take you farting in the bed, etc.

*I can't wait for Mafia to start...I really hate continuing Tigers topic...

She is gonna flip when she sees what we did to it. Funny thing is that it wasn't a clear topic to begin with so it turned into a chat room. hahahahahahaha.

[phaze]

Note to the young:

Invest in your future happiness rather than selling it for momentary pleasures today

Follow your heart if you must, but your head is not an assessory.

Live well

[Guest]

having sex before marriage is a must for me, I refuse to invite someone into my life without knowing what kind of lover they'll be

Guess what? If you wait until you're married...then your spouse will absolutely be the best you've ever had.

I told you already that I had sexual relationship before I found my husband. Some of those experiences FELT amazing...but in the end, the RELATIONSHIP was not amazing (or else it would have panned out!) And I have memories of experiences with other men that I was with during my youth when my sexual appetite was at it's peak and some of those experiences were better than anything I've had with my husband. Is he a good lover...OF COURSE! And the best part is that I LOVE HIM and HE LOVES ME...fully, completely, unconditionally. But it is unfortunate to both him, but especially to me, to have these memories of other men because there is absolutely no way to not compare.

So, Tolecnal, are you saying that you plan to marry the man who gives you the most orgasms? That's just stupidity. Sexual compatibility is nice, but like LIS said, it can be worked on and perfected in a good marriage. Great sex does not a good marriage make. In fact, once real life sets into your marriage and your sex life slows down a bit (AND IT WILL...no matter what kind of libido you have going into it!!) what's going to hold you together is mutual respect and the ability to communicate openly. If you have those qualities in your marriage, then the sex is going to be freakin' awesome!!

[Guest]

So, Tolecnal, are you saying that you plan to marry the man who gives you the most orgasms? That's just stupidity. Sexual compatibility is nice, but like LIS said, it can be worked on and perfected in a good marriage. Great sex does not a good marriage make. In fact, once real life sets into your marriage and your sex life slows down a bit (AND IT WILL...no matter what kind of libido you have going into it!!) what's going to hold you together is mutual respect and the ability to communicate openly. If you have those qualities in your marriage, then the sex is going to be freakin' awesome!!

I think you're taking Tolecnal a bit out of context here.

how I interpreted what (s)he (I have no idea which.. sorry ) said was that they want the best of both worlds in a spouse. (a feeling I can relate too)

and want to make sure that (s)he's getting one. Even if it may mean sacrificing your virginity ahead of time.

I just reread everything I just said and realised I'm not being to clear... but it's realy late, I'm just waiting for my dad to stop playing video games in my room so I can sleep....

I probably shoulda checked Tolecnal's profile to find the gender as well... oh well

[akaslickster]

Don't look at me. I used the advice of Dr. Ruth Westheimer.

[grey cells]

You know what? I just realized this topic should be 5* rather than 2*. Thanks guys and gals, for making this a great topic.

[Guest]

you think? well i guess it has travelled since tigers first post!

[grey cells]

you think? well i guess it has travelled since tigers first post!

Because this has turned into a Quality sex education topic. That's why I told it has to be 5*.

Thanks to you young-at-heart folks out there. You folks, know who I am referring to.

[Guest]

well, this is a bit different than sex ed' at school, but i must thank everyone in this topic, i have been taught well!

[Guest]

I think you're taking Tolecnal a bit out of context here.

how I interpreted what she said was that they want the best of both worlds in a spouse. (a feeling I can relate too)

I know that she was not implying that, but I was trying to make a point about how ridiculous that argument is. Say you fall in love with the most wonderful woman you've ever crossed paths with. She's gorgeous, makes you laugh, is smart and courageous and sexy. She appreciates your masculinity, supports your endeavors and respects your opinions. You have many things in common and when you're apart you feel like something's missing...almost like you're homesick. And...she loves you back and thinks you are the most wonderful man she's ever met. Now, say you've been together several months and your passion for each other has risen to the point of boiling over...you decide to sleep together. Except when you do, she is not very "experienced" (meaning, lucky for you she hasn't slept around a lot and probably isn't carrying an STD) and things at first are kind of awkward. Over the next several weeks you continue to have sex, she warms up a bit, but maybe isn't as experimental as you'd hoped she'd be. Do you dump her? She's everything you want, but not a dominatrix in bed...deal's off!

That's what I mean by stupidity. Sex will continue to get better and better in a good relationship. A relationship WILL NOT get better and better with good sex.

And, no offense, Ploper...but you're 13, Dude. You may think you've felt love before (and I suppose you may have to the extent of which you are able at your age) but it's not true love. True love would die for you. True love would sacrafice everything for you. True love doesn't break up with you so that it can go out with the cute guy three lockers down. So don't worry yourself about love right now. Just date some girls and have fun (NO SEX!) and find out what qualities are a fit for you and which aren't. Then continue to narrow your field until you find your match.

Edited August 13, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[Guest]

I agree with PG about not having sex before marriage. I know I am sounding like an orthodox Indian but really can't help it! Well, that's just my opinion.

I believe in LOVE and not lust because LOVE is eternal and lust is momentary

[Guest]

LOVE is eternal and lust is momentary

well put, Nayana

[Guest]

My advice is don't make it a habit and wash your mouth afterwards then if needed rinse with peroxide and then warm water.

that was too funny

[Guest]

Yes, PG and Nayana are both very correct. I've been happily married for 8 years now and the "sex" is soo much better with someone you love. Have you ever been with someone like that and then break up and do it with someone else, and all you can think about is the person you loved before?? With marriage (happy marriage anyways ) you never have conflicting interests. They say the heart wants what the heart wants but staying in minogomous (hope I spelled that right) relationship is as easy as just finding the right one to share your life with. Share is very important word there...and there are things to prevent lusting for others too...you just have to be willing to sacrifice the bad stuff, and if you're not willing to do that then the person you're with must not be that important to you after all.

[Guest]

You know what? I just realized this topic should be 5* rather than 2*. Thanks guys and gals, for making this a great topic.

I will second that. Good interaction between people of various ages

[Guest]

sex prior to gettin hitched.. rather controverial.. I am a firm believer in the concept that you must test drive the car before you buy it but you shouldn't test drive too many cars if ya know what I mean... wow I am blushing while writing this... lol. but it is all about boundaries... i mean you wouldn't test drive a car just cuz would you? well the same should go for sex.. Only serious buyers need apply....

[tolecnal]

Ello!

I'll try to respond as best I can while not confusing this with the article I'm writing about the California Spotted Owl, otherwise this might get interesting

So, Tolecnal, are you saying that you plan to marry the man who gives you the most orgasms? That's just stupidity. Sexual compatibility is nice, but like LIS said, it can be worked on and perfected in a good marriage. Great sex does not a good marriage make. In fact, once real life sets into your marriage and your sex life slows down a bit (AND IT WILL...no matter what kind of libido you have going into it!!) what's going to hold you together is mutual respect and the ability to communicate openly. If you have those qualities in your marriage, then the sex is going to be freakin' awesome!!

Haha, that hadn't been my criteria before, but now that you mention it I think your assuming that the only thing someone not married gets out of sex is an orgasm, not to mention a lust-filled sexual experience and of course that all consuming need to feel accepted by another and thus good about yourself. If that's all that you got out of the sexual experiences you had before you met your husband, then I think it is appropriate that you feel the way you do about sex before marriage. I take the sexual experiences I have had, good and bad, as chances to learn more about myself and my partner, they have never been just an exercise in lust, if they had been, you are right, I would probably regret them. I personally think sexual compatability is about more than just sexual gratification, as CP said it's about learning what kind of person your partner is as a lover and finding out if you are compatible to THAT person. Are they caring, kind, understanding, respectful? And yes too, are they fun, adventurous, romantic, spontaneous? But most importantly, are those characteristics ones you want in a lover? It isn't about the orgasm, it isn't about how CRAZY the sexual experience was, it's about finding out if your lover likes to cuddle afterwards or likes to smoke a cigarette, it's about finding your boundaries together and seeing if your relationship can handle that next level, and it is about finding out who YOU are. I refuse to marry someone before I have that kind of self awareness and that kind of understanding in our relationship.

I know that she was not implying that, but I was trying to make a point about how ridiculous that argument is. Say you fall in love with the most wonderful woman you've ever crossed paths with. She's gorgeous, makes you laugh, is smart and courageous and sexy. She appreciates your masculinity, supports your endeavors and respects your opinions. You have many things in common and when you're apart you feel like something's missing...almost like you're homesick. And...she loves you back and thinks you are the most wonderful man she's ever met. Now, say you've been together several months and your passion for each other has risen to the point of boiling over...you decide to sleep together. Except when you do, she is not very "experienced" (meaning, lucky for you she hasn't slept around a lot and probably isn't carrying an STD) and things at first are kind of awkward. Over the next several weeks you continue to have sex, she warms up a bit, but maybe isn't as experimental as you'd hoped she'd be. Do you dump her? She's everything you want, but not a dominatrix in bed...deal's off!

That's what I mean by stupidity. Sex will continue to get better and better in a good relationship. A relationship WILL NOT get better and better with good sex.

I think your story should go a little more like this: You meet this perfect guy (my perfect guy is tall, eats an entire pizza but doesn't gain a pound, wears glasses, plays World of Warcraft and his name is Richard tehe) anyways, he appreciates who you are, laughs at your jokes, likes your parents and you have sex, but GUESS WHAT! He is an A$$h**e he doesnh't care about your gratification, he makes you feel guilty about not doing what he wants, and he smokes in your bed. yea, GAME OVER for me, if you disagree cool beans, but for me that is game over. With your scenario there is room to grow, change and learn together, with my scenario (which honest to goddesses isn't unusual) changing, growing and learning with that guy will only likely bring you more heartache and will probably just make you feel worse about yourself. So no, I'm not going to marry the guy who seems to love me without knowing how it feels when he touches me, sorry. Again, I don't believe it is for everyone and more power to you if you want to wait til marriage, but it just isn't for me.

I agree with PG about not having sex before marriage. I know I am sounding like an orthodox Indian but really can't help it! Well, that's just my opinion.

I believe in LOVE and not lust because LOVE is eternal and lust is momentary

I don't believe LOVE and LUST are mutually exclusive, I agree love is more important, but it isn't as though lust sullies the love you feel for someone.

Edit: haha Rene, I completely agree! "Only serious buyers need apply" hahahahahaha, I'm gonna pee...

Edited August 13, 2008 by tolecnal

[Guest]

It isn't about the orgasm, it isn't about how CRAZY the sexual experience was, it's about finding out if your lover likes to cuddle afterwards or likes to smoke a cigarette, it's about finding your boundaries together and seeing if your relationship can handle that next level, and it is about finding out who YOU are. I refuse to marry someone before I have that kind of self awareness and that kind of understanding in our relationship.

I can gaurantee you that is not why your boyfriend will want to have sex! If you aren't already aware of who you are as a person, then you shouldn't be clinging to others hoping they will complete you....or cuddle you...or smoke with you. Here's a hint...When you find the right man you can tell all these things about him without jumping in the sack.

And no, all of my expereinces before marriage weren't bad or weren't based just on lust. I mentioned before that I thought I was "in love" with each of them. But I don't look back at those experiences now and think, "WOw, my husband should be glad I slept with so many other men because he's getting an experienced lover." Or, "I'm sure glad I slept with Peter. He was a great guy...just not marriage material. But I sure did learn a lot about him." WHo cares if I learned a lot about Peter (a fictional name BTW)...that knowledge does me no good with the man I plan to spend the rest of my life with.

"you have sex, but GUESS WHAT! He is an A$$h**e he doesnh't care about your gratification, he makes you feel guilty about not doing what he wants, and he smokes in your bed."

My point exactly! Why would you want that loser to have the greatest gift you could give him? You should find out about a man's character BEFORE you sleep with him. Or is sex part of your getting-aquainted process?

changing, growing and learning with that guy will only likely bring you more heartache and will probably just make you feel worse about yourself.

So keep your pants on until you get to know him!!! You can learn the character of a man without his p***s inside you! And when you determine that he is Mr. Wonderful and he wants to commit his life to you, then he will also want to do whatever it takes to please you in bed as well.

So no, I'm not going to marry the guy who seems to love me without knowing how it feels when he touches me, sorry.

I'm not saying to enter into an arranged marriage where you've never even touched the guy. How about just dating first (kissing & petting allowed.) When you find someone that truly loves you, you will KNOW! That way you don't have to do the trial and error test with every guy that "seems" to love you, as you put it.

Tolecnal - I know that I am not going to convince you to change your stance on this subject; but I feel it is my duty to let the younger crowd on this forum know how damaging sex can be when it's not in a covented relationship. I hope you don't take my rant too personally, I am just using your posts to prove my points.

Edited August 13, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[akaslickster]

I can gaurantee you that is not why your boyfriend will want to have sex! If you aren't already aware of who you are as a person, then you shouldn't be clinging to others hoping they will complete you....or cuddle you...or smoke with you. Here's a hint...When you find the right man you can tell all these things about him without jumping in the sack.

And no, all of my expereinces before marriage weren't bad or weren't based just on lust. I mentioned before that I thought I was "in love" with each of them. But I don't look back at those experiences now and think, "WOw, my husband should be glad I slept with so many other men because he's getting an experienced lover." Or, "I'm sure glad I slept with Peter. He was a great guy...just not marriage material. But I sure did learn a lot about him." WHo cares if I learned a lot about Peter (a fictional name BTW)...that knowledge does me no good with the man I plan to spend the rest of my life with.

My point exactly! Why would you want that loser to have the greatest gift you could give him? You should find out about a man's character BEFORE you sleep with him. Or is sex part of your getting-aquainted process?

So keep your pants on until you get to know him!!! You can learn the character of a man without his p***s inside you! And when you determine that he is Mr. Wonderful and he wants to commit his life to you, then he will also want to do whatever it takes to please you in bed as well.

I'm not saying to enter into an arranged marriage where you've never even touched the guy. How about just dating first (kissing & petting allowed.) When you find someone that truly loves you, you will KNOW! That way you don't have to do the trial and error test with every guy that "seems" to love you, as you put it.

Tolecnal - I know that I am not going to convince you to change your stance on this subject; but I feel it is my duty to let the younger crowd on this forum know how damaging sex can be when it's not in a covented relationship. I hope you don't take my rant too personally, I am just using your posts to prove my points.

Wow you have been a busy bee lately. I think this sex talk should be kept behind closed doors. There are some virgin ears that may get the wrong picture. Besides that, why would my darling damsel spend so much time away from me, while typing this long sermon. That is no way to treat your beau.

[tolecnal]

Right back at you PG, just trying to balance out the "no sex before marriage" argument and the argument that people only have sex because they want to feel better about themselves. I think we just fundamentally disagree about a number of things, though, that kind of makes this discussion pointless:

1. I don't believe sex is the greatest gift I could give some, I believe my witty banter, love, support, understanding and again my witty banter are the greatest gifts I can give another person.

2. We disagree about the institution of marriage, I think it is unnecessary. Not everyone needs to be married to build a life with another person.

3. I think you believe I'm having sex willynilly to find out who in this wide world will be a good partner, based on your quote of "So keep your pants on until you get to know him!!! You can learn the character of a man without his p***s inside you!" and of course, my favorite "Or is sex part of your getting-aquainted process" whereas I've been with my boyfriend for four years, do not plan to marry him (because I do not think marriage is necessary to spend the rest of your life with someone) and am not using sex as a way to get to know anyone else, but him.

4. You said "I can gaurantee you that is not why your boyfriend will want to have sex!" Again I disagree, I have found otherwise.

5. I do agree that one should "keep their pants on" until you get to know eachother, I just don't think you have to wait til your married to get to know someone, especially since not all of us are getting married.

6. And the biggest fundamental difference is that we don't view sex the same way!

I appreciate the discussion nonetheless though, it was nice to hear the view of someone who wishes they had waited til they had married, I would just like to let the younger crowd know that sex can be an incredible and rewarding learning experience when not entered in lightly and that a marriage certificate doesn't magically make you ready for sex, and NOT having a marriage certificate, of course, does not make you NOT ready to have sex

*maybe we should let some other peeps weigh in...

Edit: You're right AKA, back to Mafia!

Edited August 13, 2008 by tolecnal

[Guest]

1. I don't believe sex is the greatest gift I could give some, I believe my witty banter, love, support, understanding and again my witty banter are the greatest gifts I can give another person.

Perhaps, but I can give myself in those ways to anyone on the street (in fact that's how I try to live my life) but I only give the comfort and intimacy of sex to one person... the man who is committed to love me for the rest of my life.

EDIT: And, No, that's not Slick.

Edited August 13, 2008 by puzzlegirl

[akaslickster]

Perhaps, but I can give myself in those ways to anyone on the street (in fact that's how I try to live my life) but I only give the comfort and intimacy of sex to one person... the man who is committed to love me for the rest of my life.

EDIT: And,Yes that's Slick.