[Guest]

If we legalized drugs, Would there be less fatality in the long run? How would it affect people who don't do drugs and people who do drugs.

[akaslickster]

If we legalized drugs, Would there be less fatality in the long run? How would it affect people who don't do drugs and people who do drugs.

Maybe legalize pot only for 21 and over, by then their bodies are full grown. They have to agree to keep it in doors and pass out and eat good afterwards. A friend of mine has been at it all his life and he is about 50. He is no problem to anyone and never was. Just a goofier sense of humor these days. One cannot predict the outcome unless we have maybe a 1/2 year trial to see how things go. Think of the money it could make.

[Guest]

if they legalized drugs there wouldn't be as much intrest in them because they wouldn't be mysterious

it is human nature to want what you cant have so if you were allowed to have drugs you would lose intrest in them

people make pills called placebos and they dont have any medical effect

all that happens is that someone says it will make you really high and people will get high

it is purely psychological

i tried this on one of my friends once i said my bottle of water was vodka

they drank some and then they pretended to be drunk but they didnt know they were pretending

it all happens in your subconsius

[Guest]

I love placebo.

[Guest]

yeah placebo rule

[akaslickster]

if they legalized drugs there wouldn't be as much intrest in them because they wouldn't be mysterious

it is human nature to want what you cant have so if you were allowed to have drugs you would lose intrest in them

people make pills called placebos and they dont have any medical effect

all that happens is that someone says it will make you really high and people will get high

it is purely psychological

i tried this on one of my friends once i said my bottle of water was vodka

they drank some and then they pretended to be drunk but they didnt know they were pretending

it all happens in your subconsius

Doubtfully thinking that one can't taste the difference but, after enough booze it all tastes the same. Hicccup!

[Guest]

if they legalized drugs there wouldn't be as much intrest in them because they wouldn't be mysterious

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

[Guest]

With any drug, you have to respect it on the level of understanding. If we legalize it and other forms that incompassitate you to a certain degree, more than likely, less hazardous forms will present themselves if able to be purchased and used. I can say that part the effect of using any drug is the anxiousness of using it again and up until the point of coming down/wearing off. The fact that you are using something that is "illegal" and against the normal standard is definately an appeal of drugs.

Chemical drugs should remain illegal. They have messed up my life and I can no longer even drink a beer due to the imbalance that they have created within me. You have to respect the life you live and the effect that the drug can leave until the worst nightmare of something going wrong actually does. Then it sucks.

I think that they should legalize marijuana. The use of marijuana by the public in moderation would definately re-direct other "hard" drugs use and lessen their use. I think that there would be a lesser demand from chemical drugs when given the opportunity to just smoke.

Anyways.. IMO

[Guest]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

I agree. People use drugs to get high. Their being illegal is a bummer to the user. the number of laws that can be broken is extremely long....if someone just wants to break the law because of it's appeal there is a multitude of them.

I have knowledge to back this up as everyone in my high school got high and it had nothing to do with illegal appeal. Stick to your guns on this, your right.

[Brandonb]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

There is plenty of evidence that just plain education leads to a lesser interest in drugs. There is very little knowledge about most of these drugs because it is illegal for scientists to do any research on them. If they were legal then they could be experimented with. Safer forms would go on the market, along with information labels. Use of tobacco products has gone down, not because it was made illegal, but because people have been educated about the true nature of its negative effects. Legalization will allow for scientific testing of these chemicals, in order to produce a safer form, and increase education, and find methods of instantaneous testing of chemically impaired individuals (like the alcohol breathalyser test). So if people suddenly understand the nature of the drug, and at the same time know that they can be "found-out" if they set one chemically impaired foot into public, then they will stay at home.

Sure it won't keep everyone at home, but lets face it, why do teens start smoking cigarettes? Because they are illegal. Cigarettes are a symbol of age because of the age restriction put on them. Kids think they are considered "cool" when they smoke because they think they look older. Show me a 15-16yr old girl that smokes and I'll show you a girl that's making a fully conscious attempt at becoming jail-bait. Can I say that the use of cigarettes would decrease if the age restriction was dropped? Well I have no evidence to back it up, but I can say that the main reason that teens start smoking would be gone and there would be a high likelihood that usage would drop just because of that. Everyone knows they are bad, but kids start because they are illegal. Cigarettes are the gateway into trying other drugs that are smoked.

MJ is called a "gateway drug" because it makes users think "hmm, if this is considered so bad that it's illegal, but it's not bad at all, then what about drug-xxxx?" It makes people not believe that the other drugs could be so bad. There is plenty of knowledge out there, tons of it, that says MJ is not as bad as anything else. However, the same people that said drug-xxxx would kill you also said that MJ would kill you, and they were full of it. So why believe them? Through just the legalization of MJ, the "gateway effect" would drop drastically. People would have to say, "well this MJ is LEGAL, but drug-xxxx is illegal" that's a bigger jump to make for the "gateway effect" to happen. Legalization will allow for scientific testing of all drugs, in order to produce a safer form of all drugs, and increase education of all drugs, and find methods of instantaneous testing of chemically impaired individuals for all drugs.... I'm tired of writing

[Guest]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

im not saying that it would make people give up the drugs

i am saying that i think it would make people not start taking the drug

[Guest]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

DP - it's working well in NL, any reason to doubt? all monitored and kept safe. I bet the tax man is having his share one way or another.

It can't be safe if it's kept illegal and uncontrolled, Why try hard drugs which are more certain to be dangerous when cheap - just buy more regular drug! Effective as alcohol laws and that's legal!

edit typo

Edited May 13, 2008 by Lost in space

[Guest]

This isn't a riddle. It's a debate!!!!!!

haha can't believe you clicked on this and expected an answer. Well, the truth is 'they wont!!' - drugs be lagalised I mean

[onetruth]

There is plenty of evidence that just plain education leads to a lesser interest in drugs. There is very little knowledge about most of these drugs because it is illegal for scientists to do any research on them. If they were legal then they could be experimented with. Safer forms would go on the market, along with information labels. Use of tobacco products has gone down, not because it was made illegal, but because people have been educated about the true nature of its negative effects. Legalization will allow for scientific testing of these chemicals, in order to produce a safer form, and increase education, and find methods of instantaneous testing of chemically impaired individuals (like the alcohol breathalyser test). So if people suddenly understand the nature of the drug, and at the same time know that they can be "found-out" if they set one chemically impaired foot into public, then they will stay at home. I can't agree with this at all. People understand that drugs are dangerous, especially chemical drugs. They've seen users and their friends/families destroyed. It's no secret that drugs cause tons of immediate and long term, and often permanent/fatal damage. Drug users are apathetic to these things, not ignorant.

Sure it won't keep everyone at home, but lets face it, why do teens start smoking cigarettes? Because they are illegal. Cigarettes are a symbol of age because of the age restriction put on them. Kids think they are considered "cool" when they smoke because they think they look older. Show me a 15-16yr old girl that smokes and I'll show you a girl that's making a fully conscious attempt at becoming jail-bait. Can I say that the use of cigarettes would decrease if the age restriction was dropped? Well I have no evidence to back it up, but I can say that the main reason that teens start smoking would be gone and there would be a high likelihood that usage would drop just because of that. Everyone knows they are bad, but kids start because they are illegal. Cigarettes are the gateway into trying other drugs that are smoked. Teens are stupid, and a lot of parents nowadays suck and don't teach their kids anything good. I personally never started smoking cigarettes until I was addicted to second hand smoke. I was about 21. I started smoking weed way before that. But I don't think laws have anything to do with it. People will do what they want.

MJ is called a "gateway drug" because it makes users think "hmm, if this is considered so bad that it's illegal, but it's not bad at all, then what about drug-xxxx?" It makes people not believe that the other drugs could be so bad. There is plenty of knowledge out there, tons of it, that says MJ is not as bad as anything else. However, the same people that said drug-xxxx would kill you also said that MJ would kill you, and they were full of it. So why believe them? Through just the legalization of MJ, the "gateway effect" would drop drastically. People would have to say, "well this MJ is LEGAL, but drug-xxxx is illegal" that's a bigger jump to make for the "gateway effect" to happen. Legalization will allow for scientific testing of all drugs, in order to produce a safer form of all drugs, and increase education of all drugs, and find methods of instantaneous testing of chemically impaired individuals for all drugs.... I'm tired of writing Don't agree here either. MJ is a gateway drug because it can give you just a hint of what it's like to use other, stronger drugs. Also, because a person might find them saying, "Well, this isn't as bad as that." And then they try the next thing, because it's not as bad as the thing after. It's the idea of not being as bad as it could be, but still being bad. It's like...I'll have a piece of pie today. Then the next day it's pie and ice cream. Then pie, ice cream, and whipped cream (sounds yummy---hahaha, no, I'm not stoned. Haven't been in years.).

[onetruth]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

And I have to fully agree with this. I have close family that have used drugs as long as I can remember. My brother has been in jail/prison more often than he's been out. Doesn't deter him. I have friends/former friends whose lives revolved around drugs. I used to do meth, and not a little. The legality of it all doesn't even matter, because it's so easy to get whatever you're looking for and so easy to hide it, unless you're just dumb. You can easily and legally buy pipes, so that's not a problem.

The problem is that I have a nephew who was in an accident where the car was totaled, because my brother (his dad) was driving. This was days after my brother was almost arrested in Mexico w/my nephew (who was 3 yrs old at the time). My brother was arrested at the accident.

The problem is that when I got pregnant, my b/f at the time refused to quit meth. Instead, he left bruises all over me and almost socked me in the stomach to make me miscarry. He also cheated on me with anything that moved, fat, ugly girls and men included, all to get more drugs. He admitted to everything a year ago in a detailed letter. My 9 month old babies were scared to have him in the room with them. That was the last time he was ever in my home. He is permanently out of our lives now, and by his own choice (I offered to let him visit them but never heard from him except that letter a year ago).

The problem is that I have a friend whose parents lost the house due to doing too many drugs, and she was only 15 or 16 at the time with younger siblings, and all of them had to find friends to live with.

The problem is that I know a girl who has a son that she would drop off with any random person and not return for days. She used all his welfare money to buy drugs, and she'd get pissed at me when I had the audacity to buy him a meal or a bottle of water on a 105 degree day. She never batted an eye when I'd walk off with him and not return for several hours.

You think these people care whether drugs are legal or illegal? They don't give a damn about that or anything else. Legalizing drugs would only justify the use in their eyes. And these people don't deserve any kind of justification. That would be enabling.

By the way, I don't know ANYONE who started doing drugs because they were illegal. They (myself included) were just looking for the next high. If we wanted to do something illegal for a high, we'd steal something or break into a building or something like that. The drugs were their own high.

As for weed...I don't really have a strong opinion on that. I think it should stay illegal, just because I don't think there's any benefit to legalizing it. But mostly I feel that way because I think it would be one step closer to legalizing chemical drugs. I'd probably smoke weed once in a while (a bit hypocritically...the same way I smoke cigarettes sometimes when I drink) if it were legal, but I won't because it's illegal, and I can't get in trouble since I have my kids.

[Guest]

I don't think it should happen.

I mean, if drugs are made legal, then getting your hands on some will be a lot easier

and we're not just talking about pot,

but the doosies too,

crystal meth, ecstacy, etc.

Those can be REALLY damaging

and I'd rather not see more addicts to these things

[Brandonb]

I have close....The problem is.... You think these people care whether drugs....

I won't lie, that was a strong argument, but I think that we have come to agree that whether or not drugs are legal, people are going to get them and become addicted to them.

So, why not make them safer? Why not produce alternatives? It Drug A is legal, is produced industrially/pharmaceutically to certain safety standards, is safe at the dosage on the package, and it's $5. And Drug B produces a comparable high, is produced by some guy in the alley, and it's $10 (because a small time dealer cannot produce small quantity at the same price that a company can in large quantity). Then why the heck would anyone pick Drug B? - This is a logical illustration of why questionable/laced drugs would be eliminated.

Legalization will allow for scientific testing of these chemicals, in order to produce a safer form, and increase education, and find methods of instantaneous testing of chemically impaired individuals (like the alcohol breathalyser test). So if people suddenly understand the nature of the drug, and at the same time know that they can be "found-out" if they set one chemically impaired foot into public, then they will stay at home. - This is a logical illustration of why people would have a new incentive to stay at home rather than go out.

There are huge benefits that would result from legalizing them. Especially when people are going to do them either way. Of course, when the perspective of legalization is taken from a standpoint that is ignoring the new different applications, and judging the label of "legal" to "illegal" as the one and only change, of course it doesn't seem like a good idea. But that's not how it would be.

Edit:cut down the quote

Edited May 14, 2008 by Brandonb

[Guest]

Congrats on kicking it onetruth - is meths a regulated drug though? Neither is glue! Probably a few others out there that are regarded as household items.

If legal, safe and controlled drugs are available in a cafe as is alcohol in a pub, maybe it works - problem maybe due to other issues that create a need for a different hope /satisfaction.

According to a survey I looked at last year the Dutch were on top the UK at the bottom, it was regarding the well-being of children in general - part of the consensus was that Dutch children have more freedom earlier in life and don't rebel as much because the parents are not over reactive. I don't remember if this was for Europe or worldwide.

Best to leave the drugs a one obviously .......

Healthy mind in a healthy boby - Juvenal (1st century AD) Also said .........

Refrain from doing ill; for one all powerful reason.

Llest our children should copy our misdeeds;

we are all too prone to imitate whatever is base and depraved.

[onetruth]

If legal, safe and controlled drugs are available in a cafe as is alcohol in a pub, maybe it works - problem maybe due to other issues that create a need for a different hope /satisfaction.

LIS, I claim all sorts of ignorance. Can you briefly explain how the drug policies work there? What's legal? What isn't?

[onetruth]

I won't lie, that was a strong argument, but I think that we have come to agree that whether or not drugs are legal, people are going to get them and become addicted to them.

So, why not make them safer? Why not produce alternatives? It Drug A is legal, is produced industrially/pharmaceutically to certain safety standards, is safe at the dosage on the package, and it's $5. And Drug B produces a comparable high, is produced by some guy in the alley, and it's $10 (because a small time dealer cannot produce small quantity at the same price that a company can in large quantity). Then why the heck would anyone pick Drug B? - This is a logical illustration of why questionable/laced drugs would be eliminated.

Morally, I don't agree with making harmful things legal to lower the number of criminals. But besides that...

Maybe it works in the Netherlands (maybe not). Like I told LIS, I claim full ignorance about their policies, because I've only heard snipets here and there. Maybe it could work in other places. I don't think it could work in the US. First of all, it's way too easy to get drugs from South America and Mexico. Secondly, with the number of addicts that we have in the US, I don't see how legalizing drugs is the answer. 90-95% of all addicts I've known (and I've known a LOT) would always choose Drug B over Drug A. They might use Drug A in between re-ups of Drug B. But an addict is always looking for the better, bigger high, and Drug A won't cut it for long. Or they'll OD on Drug A.

If drugs were legalized, the government would have to be very careful about how they did it. The initial backlash would probably be much worse than most people who want to legalize them realize.

And besides, drunk people don't stay at home, even though they can easily be caught.

People are going to do drugs one way or another. But that doesn't mean we should accept it and remove the legal ramifications of doing that.

Side note: Before I got rid of my old group of friends, even the worst addict would admit that legalizing drugs would be the worst thing we could do. During the best high and the lowest part of the come down...even the biggest jerks didn't want drugs legalized. They'd take full advantage of it, but they all knew it would be horrible. We talked about it a lot. We were tweakers. All we did was talk, for days straight.

Edited to add one more thought.

Edited May 14, 2008 by onetruth

[akaslickster]

Legal or illegal I had my share. Now it's time to grow old and watch the new generation play with it. They better just watch their source because some of it is lethal.

[Guest]

LIS, I claim all sorts of ignorance. Can you briefly explain how the drug policies work there? What's legal? What isn't?

Funny you don't have to look too far NY Times did a report it's mainly heroin and pot that's allowed as far as I know - toleration! Dutch started in 70's with pot and monitored/controlled the legalisation, Zurich is on board too. I think it's not straight forward for some cities, Dutch and Swiss both have more parenting time as I see it, therefore bringing up children is easier if you rise to your duties.

I was never interested in drugs and despite being a poor family with six children and my mum did not work, we somehow got the message - we lived at the edge of London now it's more cosmopolitan and has rising crime - not sure if that makes a difference. More men are parenting full time in Europe too, as am I. Then we are on to upbringing which is related to the above and so much more - another topic perhaps!

[Guest]

You have any evidence to back that up? Every person I know that takes drugs does so because of one of two reasons: 1) They enjoy the effect, or 2) They are chemically dependent. That the drugs are illegal has very little to do with their appeal.

They may be dependant or like it now but how did they start? far less people would start drugs if they were legal, they would have no reason or risk to try it and therefore not as 'cool' to do so. for those that do however they may become dependant or just like it, plus it is all well and good for us to be saying this but we don't know. i certainly dont as i have never taken drugs but i work with a charity that helps drug dependant people and i can tell you that it destroys a persons life in the end unless they have a level head about them

Lhiats Ben

[onetruth]

They may be dependant or like it now but how did they start? far less people would start drugs if they were legal, they would have no reason or risk to try it and therefore not as 'cool' to do so. for those that do however they may become dependant or just like it, plus it is all well and good for us to be saying this but we don't know. i certainly dont as i have never taken drugs but i work with a charity that helps drug dependant people and i can tell you that it destroys a persons life in the end unless they have a level head about them

Lhiats Ben

I don't understand the whole line of thinking that says, "People won't do it if it's legal."

I started drinking before I was of legal age. Not out of rebellion, but because it was available and I wanted some. I didn't stop when I turned 21. In fact, I drank even more because it was more accessible. (Plus, I had no problems getting guys to buy me drinks at bars. haha)

And let me just say that chemical drugs as well as coke destroy a person far more than alcohol. I'm not justifying drunkeness. But drugs do a different thing to your body. I'd get frustrated and upset without having a few drinks. When I was coming down off of meth, I'd break down and cry if I couldn't get more. It would hurt, and I'd feel like I just wanted to die if I couldn't get my next fix. Sorry...I'm going to be crude... Who has ever heard of a drunk sucking another man's you-know-what for a beer? Well, I've known people who would do that for a couple hits off a crack pipe. When a person is that addicted to something, nothing else is gonna do.

Like I said before, things enter the US too easily. There will always be drug addicts looking for company, and when people are okay with a little, soon you'll find people that are okay with a lot.

I was never interested in drugs and despite being a poor family with six children and my mum did not work, we somehow got the message - we lived at the edge of London now it's more cosmopolitan and has rising crime - not sure if that makes a difference. More men are parenting full time in Europe too, as am I. Then we are on to upbringing which is related to the above and so much more - another topic perhaps!

I don't want to misstate or overstate what you are saying, but I agree, LIS, that parenting is one of the biggest factors. In my opinion, the US is full of generation after generation of parents who don't parent. I realize that I am new to parenthood, but I have 12 or so nieces and nephews, the oldest is 18, and I've done more to raise some of them than their own parents. Plus, it's been one of the most important things to me in my life. I feel that if I was meant to be only one thing in life, it is a mother. I have trouble finding more than a handful of established couples/parents that I can look up to and go to for advice and model myself after. I see generations of drug addicts begetting more generations of drug addicts (for example). I know only one, maybe 2 single mothers my age that have stopped partying in order to be with their kids and set good examples for them. I've had my occasional night out, but those nights are very rare. My parents were told that I was doing drugs, and to this day, they have not mentioned it to me. I'll never be that uninvolved and uninterested in my kids' lives. Parents seem unable to teach their kids how to make responsible, wise choices, and it's a fight to learn how to teach my kids to do those things. But it's a worthwhile fight that too many people are too lazy or selfish to partake in.

Yeah, it probably is another topic. Whoops.

[itachi-san]

far less people would start drugs if they were legal, they would have no reason or risk to try it and therefore not as 'cool' to do so.

There's no way this is true. The whole (illegal big risk = fun and cool) idea is something from an after-school special, not reality. The reason people try things is not because of the rush from doing something illegal; the reason for first trial is always friends or peers. And I don't mean peer pressure. Peer pressure is also a common misconception, like your illegal = cool theory, these instances occur way less than people are led to believe. Just think about peer pressure: do you think drug addicts are actively trying to give away their drugs to straight people? The only way this would ever happen would be if a dealer wanted to boost their market, but this is also a big danger to them. They could ask an undercover cop or someone who would rat them out. So they don't use peer pressure either. They usually get friends of friends to start buying so it all stays in a pretty safe, contained group. Alcohol is the only substance I've seen get pushed onto people, but it was never menacing or anything like that.

Also, to expand on the 'cool' idea. Would it be cool for someone to start buying pot and then laying around their house alone smoking? No. The reason it's 'cool' is because you would be in a group of friends doing it, therefore it's not the illegality that is the cause of the first trial; it is a societal issue, not a legal one.

[Guest]

i think pot should be legal..

just for the fact that it grows out of the ground.

all the other ones are chemical in some way