Quag

WAGS

Cant be bothered to try and figure out your clue How about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?

ZANY

Normally id go with TheChad choice but is taken so how about the hangover?

TACK

gvg: ref teh petition: I disagree I just think it will skew it in another direction, Sometimes doing somethign, anything is worse than nothing. though it is irrelevant as this has 0% chance of actually going anywhere both dems and reps rely too much on corporate money to ever do anything about it. Umm they are hiding the true numbers. They are burying them real deep and spoon feeding the press the message they want to get out. Most of the press is too lazy to actually do any research on their own to see the real stat of affairs, far easier to just regurgitate what someone else tells them (works for both reps and dems btw) As to them doing it on purpose to "stimulate" the economy by fooling people into thinking it is better than it is, come on get real. ok so the govt is actually "conspiring" to fool the peopel into a better economy? You dont for 1 second think that perhaps it could have more to do with slowly dropping unemplyment numbers to get them down before the 2012 elections? I have looked but cannot find any definitive answer on how or why they removed the 300k+ people it seems to be an arbitrary number, perhaps not but if not why cant i find a decent explanation of how they calculated the number? Well i suppose if by good intnentions you mean trying to get re-elected then i guess i agree with you http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 doesnt explain why drops just shows it. 3. Tax cuts: cant watch video from Canada Nope I disagree with this. The rich got their through one or more of hard work/luck/birth. The country provides an environment that makes this easier but does not MAKE it happen. Even in Somalia there are rich people and ther eis no functioning govt! that is the same left wing war class warfare gargage spouted by Elizabeth Warren. Fact is as i have stated repeatedly the "rich" pay more in both % and total amount than the middle or lower class. Any increase (give up the rhetoric about letting the bush rates expire, its a tax INCREASE) will do vitually nada for the deficit/debt your increases in spending are so far outstripping gdp growth that it is insane. Your problem is 90% spending 10% income not the other way around. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?chart=H0-fed&year=1792_2016&units=p First off i dislike the term give back, it implies their money is not theirs and 2nd off they altready are giving more! Pissed at the small minority that avoid taxes through loopholes then kill the loopholes (something i completely agree with) but dont punish those that pay "their fair share" I use the word punishement expressly because this is a punative more to increase taxes on the rich as it will not help the deficit/debt and only affect those who pay their full taxes already. 4. Not sure what this is refering to 5. Obama care yes because Govt estimates are never below the actual cost! Lets face it if it is only 2X the cost then as govt spending goes it is a bargain 3X and up is the norm. Worst part of it is in my opinion by passing this monstrosity it will make it even harder for you to get an actual helth care program that doesnt punish the poor for being the poor (ie govt suppied health care not govt run insurance program). 6. Ok glad you and Dawh both agree that culturally you are moving left now i just gotta make ya see that financially you are as well. Lets see deficit spending has been rising exponentially even under republican andminsitations that is the opposite of a conservative economic policy! id go on but that pretty much sums it up! Yes Newt was leader of the House when they forced Bill Clinton into passing a balanced budget so kudos on him. Every politician gets somethign right from time to time. I would like at this time to point out that the dems never made a budget in 2010 when they had super majorities. could this have been to not give any ammunition to the reps before the 2010 elections? hmmm makes ya wonder, how many times has congress not passed a budget? ill have to look but it seems to me this is just one more case of politics at the expense of both the electorate and jsut plain honesty and decency! As to Unions the large ones such as UAW are just corporations with a different business model. They dont give a crap about their members. unions are usefull and necessary but the big ones are monstrosities, that care only about the "UNION" not the memebers, when the 2 objectives coincide that great when they differ too bad on the worker! Full disclosure i am a member of one of these huge unions, used to be small but then we merged (got taken over) by a corporate union with NO positive effects for us as workers excet that our previous union money was taken by the large one and we will hav eless $ if ever we go on strike (we wont).

SPOKE

RANG

2nd point first I was replying to what i thought was your attempt to equate rebublican fillibusters to the USA moving to the right. I was trying to point out that "Lying, imploring, yelling, scaring, bribing, whatever" was neither right nor left and has always been around. Obviously i didnt get my point across very well. So if you didnt mean to imply that conservatives are the only ones who act like this and it isnt a move to the right then i misunderstood and well am still confused on what your actual point was, Please elaborate. Bernie: If Bernie had wanted to include Unions he would have, the fact he didnt speaks volumes! Actually i doubt it really matters anymore. thanx to the internet any group can base activities outside the USA and spam the internet with whatever they want. There is no way for the govt to effectively regulate this. I am not saying this is a good thing, i think it is terrible! i just dont see any way around 3rd party interference in elections in modern times. Thus money will always be a factor. having said that at a certain point it makes little difference. If politician A spends 100 million and politician B 200 they have both pretty much saturated the market. Presidential elections have reached this level, though i do not believe senatorial or lower have yet. Yes i am cynical. I believe most (i hope) enter for the right reasons but they soon learn if you dont get elected you cant do squat and even then unless you are chair of a commitee leader of the house/senate/opposition few peopel listen to you. they only want to influence you not let you influence them. Thus the old adage the primary job of a politician is to get elected becomes a self fulfilling prophesy of sorts. I agree a career politician isnt necessarily bad but Bernie has done nothing NADA SQUAT of any use and i see him as a fraud who doesnt give a crap about the little guy but spends all his time pretending he does. I do not see Bernie even remotely capable of working outside his extreme left wing ideology on any matter under any sitiation and thus is EXACTLY what you are accusing the reps (partialy rightly partially wrongly) of doing. This complete waste of time of a petition is just another example as far as i am concened. I dont like Bernie if you cant tell yet! As to Pelosi Well i just consider her a moron not fit for any office. Certain remarks make me dismiss politicians as being unfit. The we must pass the bill to see whats in it is a prime example. For a politician to be against a bill I do not believe they have to read it all if it is opposite to their political views but to be for a bill you damn well better read it and understand it! It could be very very different than what you think. (again the Bernie Sanders petition doesnt mention Unions and that IS on purpose) I would attack republicans liek Newt but i see no need as you and gvg are doing a fine job. having said all that if a politician does the right thing for the wrong reasons i will dislike him/her but will be more inclined to vote for them that someone who does the wrong thing regardless of reasons. i dont think ive ever said i was for term limits. i am actually very divided on them opposed for reasons you say but see soem use at often politicians get elected because peopel remember their name not because of anythign they have ever done (often remembering the name because they have actually been in the news for being so incredibly bad at what they do)

Hmm graph seems to show that the trend is up regardless of who controlls the senate. but i still dont see how that makes your country more right wing. i see it as showing the 2 parties going farther apart, something i said in the very beggining of this thread before it got all crazy anarchist then morphed into what it is now. I still maintain your county is moving more to the left. it is not linear but the general trend is moving to a more liberal society. Politicians being politiicans will use whatever they can to get themselves elected. Lying, imploring, yelling, scaring, bribing, whatever they think will work. This is not new it is as old as well human civilization. Being a fiscal conservative/social liberal I applaud the social mouvement towards the left but lament the fiscal imprudence shown by well so darn many of your politicians of all stripes.

GREAT

GLAD

Hi Amanda welcome to brain den, Try the games like thalia said, i like the rollos myself, everyone here is pretty welcoming and remember to use lots of smileys watch out for miki she has a tzer and a nefarious plot (possibly several) Also despite what anyone says I DO know how to spell i just cant type

Nope the personal attacks are as old as the congress. ill have to disagree with you there. as to fillibusters dems did the same thing there really is no change. i can remember the republicans accusing the dems of the exact same dirty tricks during the bush era, then the dems accusing the reps under Clinton. then reps accusing dems under bush the elder (heheh sounds more polite and old world britishy than bush 41) and regan and dems accusing reps under Carter, before that i was too young but if you look at the historical material it is all the same. only in old timey times they used pamphlets and newspapers not tv radio and the internet Not that i think Newt is a nice polite politician or anything but he hasnt invented squat.

FATE SULK - 0 HURT - 0 PITY - 1 CATS - 2 DOGS - 0 NETS - 1 HATE - 3 GRRRR DATA - 2 RATE - 3 Maq +15 curr3nt +10 Quag +9

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Yes that is the theory but unfotunately it doesnt actually happen that way. for the reasons i stated above http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/27/us-health-insurance-costs-climb http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm I have only seen reports of the increases gaining in speed, not slowing down. Please find me where they are coming down? As to the 20% law please tell me you dont think that politicians are smarter making a 2000+page bill than insurance company executives who will invariable find loopholes and other ways around this? The red part is where it WILL fall apart as it will never work as expected! But lets assume that this insane thing "works as planned" Guy A 20k income Guy B 200K income Guy C 2kk Income all pay lets say 2k for new obama care (i know is low but easy math) A=10% salary B= 2% Salary C= .2% salary How is that remotely fair? even flat taxers would never propose a regressive tax system! plus A risks fines if he chooses to feed and house his family at the expense of health care is that insane or what?? Left didnt need 1 single republican stop naming them for this monstrosity they didnt need them for this they wouldnt have needed them for a decent health care bill providing some sort of universal coverage either! Taxes are not a toxic word Obama hasnt stppoed talking about raising them since he got into office! again its not the republicans fault the dems made a stupid bill! Ok were you admit class warfare good. Now i just need you to admit the dems are much more inflexible than the republicans. I never said the republicans moved to the left i said they are trying to come up with compromises but the dems are saying NONONONONONO and offer NONE of their own except the same old thing give us 100% of what we want. Reps want NO tax increase and speding cuts, dems want tax increase no cuts. republicans have moved and accepted some tax increases dems havent moved at all! Now i dont think the reps are being slightly malleable out of niceness but politics. the dems are being inflexible for same reasons. They have tied their horse to tax increases on the "rich" and cant back down. Obama got a lot of flack for the extension he already gave and fear of pissing off the base will not let them budge. NEITHER side does things because the believe them 100% they both do things for political reasons. actually the DEMS and REPs have been demonizing each other since well the beggining of your nation. it si Niave to think that this is relatively new. They did a survey here and found the guy l;eading the NDP (now deceased, evil cancer) who was constantly demanding a return to civility ion our house of commons was by far the most rude and insulting of all the politicians in parliment. I know its an aside but jsut pointing out this has been going on forever and peopel have been decrying it forever saying if only we could get back to the civility of yesteryear, unfortunately it never existed

i agree that PROPER govt regulation could have prevented the bubble and subsequent meltdown. We had such regulations here and did not have the problems. But the fact was that the govt modified the rules and encouraged banks and mortgage brokers to lend to peopel who would never in a million years get a loan her ein canada. So no govt interference was A MAJOR FACTOR! it is not a republican meme it is a fact. Republicans are at fault for this as well as democrats. No it was the risky loans in the first place. When you give interest only variable rate mortgages to people and then let them refinance every year as the "value" of the property rises to peopel who shouldnt qualify for a loan in the first place you get the bubble you saw. The repackaging of the loaans merely let the bubble grow bigger before bursting but it would still have been a bubble and bursted in any case. The whole thing came apart when interest rates rose and people statrted to default. The ball just stated rolling on its own after that gathering momentum. As to food stamps. Despite the (i will use it slightly imprperly but with purpose) class warfare crap comming out of the democrats the poverty rate is not really changing it goes up and down between about 11 and 15% highest ones seem not surprisingly to coincide with recessions. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104525.html http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/census/1960/cphl162.html the EBT program is just getting more generous. I am not saying this is a bad thing only that is going to more people and that the poverty rate is not changing much. Yes the amnesty thing is relatively new but both REPs and DEMS are onside/against depending on where they are from and whether they are ideologically bent a certain way to begin with. What does regan making the govt bigger have to do with anything? republicans can do more left wing things just as democrats can do more right wing things. REPUBLICAN does not equal RIGHT wing DEMOCRAT does not equal LEFT wing. perhaps i shoudl define what i consider right wing and left wing. because if we are not using the same language we cannot begin to have an intelligent conversation RIGHT = small govt, personal responsability L:EFT = large govt, social responsability please demonstrate regans taxes being higher than they are now? http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213 yeah when he came in they were high but he brought them down continually under his presidency untill they were lower than they are now. So basically you say culturally to the left we agree but why economically to the right? taxes have done nothing but go up since regan, except under 2nd bush but still above regan levels govt is bigger than ever. where is the economic right wing stuff happening?

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???? SULK - 0 lol would have been a good one. is ok HG im used to being forgotten and ignored