[Guest]

Any person can comment on this post, but it's geared towards Christians (Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, etc.) Anyone can post the first subject of conversation. Just discuss issues about the religion (Heaven, evangelism,etc.)

[Guest]

I have a question for the Athiests. What would you do or think if the things in revelation started happening?

And there are many of us that are not Athiests. I believe in God, I don't believe in the teachings of the bible, I don't believe in organized religion.

[Guest]

I picked you up wrong, sorry. But I'm not for those 'fundamental inequalities' either, but it has appeared, IMO, a few times that individuals were ridiculed etc in a few of these threads. That's why I posted.

Well, while you may not have observed it where you think you did, it certainly happens. I could point to a couple posts within this thread, actually, that were little more than flamebait. It's how I got dragged into this whole mess. While I will certainly not say that religious individuals do not do the same thing (obviously not all, but enough), and far more than they should, there are several on here, and elsewhere, that do treat others poorly because of a difference in beliefs. It is distressing, however, that it happens on both sides. I've seen atheists here, and in other places, through several different means, some of them as inane as ridicule attempting to force others (many of them reasonable people) accept the beliefs that they hold. It is amusing, in a rather unfunny way to see an atheist act towards those that believe in God in what I can't call anything other than a "holier than thou" attitude.

Anyways, </offtopic>

It is my belief that if events from the Bible were literally to be played out in front of people's eyes that 99% of the world would believe it. However, I also think that it's rather pointless to put that kind of hypothetical situation in front of a person. I think that if a fish flopped out of the ocean and said "Hello" to someone, in a language they could understand, 99% of people would say "hello" back, and believe that fish could talk.

I also think it's unfair (to both) to lump agnostics and atheists into the same category, but that's another topic.

Edited April 29, 2009 by SomeGuy

[andromeda]

Involuntary religious conversion... hmm, there's an idea for Uberfaith. If we said that you became a member of our religion if we waved a feather duster at you and said some magic words, would you believe it? If we did it would you feel obliged to consider yourself an Uberfaithist regardless of your personal opinions? I need to know.

Nevermind... It's futile. I have my reasons.

Edited April 29, 2009 by andromeda

[Guest]

I have a question for the Athiests. What would you do or think if the things in revelation started happening?

Personally, I'd have a strong cup of coffee or a lie down. Much too trippy!

[Guest]

Sigh... This topic was for church edification, not the topic of argument! If you are here to dispute, please don't. New topic: forgiveness. Build on that.

[andromeda]

Sigh... This topic was for church edification, not the topic of argument! If you are here to dispute, please don't. New topic: forgiveness. Build on that.

Why do you only ask questions? Why don't you participate by sharing what's on you mind. The only thing that pops my mind about forgiveness is that evil people (doing really unimaginably bad things) can be granted forgiveness on their death beds just as someone who lived a life of virtue. Now, you'll probably say that they really have to mean that! For the sake of argument lets say that they really do, it still seems a bit unfair!

I would really like to hear your opinion on that!

EDIT: No dodging your own questions from now on please

Edited April 29, 2009 by andromeda

[Guest]

I have a question for the Athiests. What would you do or think if the things in revelation started happening?

If you'd like to start another thread, feel free. This isn't a free for all, ask anything you want, thread.

Anyone that wants to answer the above question can wait for that thread to start. Let's stay on topic.

[/moderating]

[Guest]

Well, for one, someone will still be judged by what he's done. What I just don't get is why Catholics are required to go to confession. It has no place in the Bible, and you can pray for forgiveness yourself. An evil person will probably still be punished, but good deeds don't buy your way into Heaven.

[Guest]

Well, for one, someone will still be judged by what he's done. What I just don't get is why Catholics are required to go to confession. It has no place in the Bible, and you can pray for forgiveness yourself. An evil person will probably still be punished, but good deeds don't buy your way into Heaven.

i agree

[Guest]

You can only reach the Father through Jesus. If you truly regret your actions, I think you can be forgiven. Speaking of talking to God, let's discuss prayer now. I usually pray more than three times a day. God will answer your prayers, but He won't always give you what you hope for. He wants to hear thanks and will also give you things if they are to help the church or convert people. God is not a vending machine, but if you obey Him and aren't selfish or greedy, He usually rewards you.

[Guest]

I might be busy now.

[Guest]

Everyone gas at least one spiritual gift. These include speaking in tongues, prophecy, leadership, service, and more. more on this later. Disclaimer: I am NOT a pastor so I may not always be accurate.

Im not that knowlegable but doesnt the bible say that gifts are no longer and if someone is speaking toungs and there is no interpreter he is speaking from satins voice not gods. one gift he promeses will not be without the other.

so as far as i know the "gifts" so to speak are past and over, no longer exsit in our time.

But the reality is they do exist. So is the bible wrong?

Every day we see people with certain gifts such as the gift of peacemaking, or the gift of healing (Dr.'s) etc....

I met a girl (a bit unstable) but i understood her... she said she had a gift and saw that i had an unclean spirit and she said she saw me jump outside myself as i was speaking to her, at that same moment (jumped outside myself) i saw her change colors like an aura around her she glowed green/blue. I do not have that gift. Although i always wished i had (sounded like the most fun) but i did see it for a moment, and then it was gone. never before and never since has this happened to me. It was only because 2 people were on the same train of thought and deep spiritual plain. She told me that the new Christ was here and would show himself soon. She said she knew where and when.... but i did not believe her entirely as she was unstable.

that was 3 years ago.....

I have intuition, so do we all and sometimes; i say things that come true (surprising even myself) but dont we all have some moments of claravoyance and psychic clarity?

I say yes we do and the inclusion of these very natural states of mind are discussed in the bible and saying what we as humans have naturally is no more than Gods gifts to some and not all. (hogwash) we all have a gift so some extent. and the bible was writen with the explicit purpose of controling the people. Keeping the law. well dummy there was no difference between religion and polotics back then. today we have fear of laws, back then we feared the word of God.

All mind and society control!

some day you too will stop believing in santa and the tooth fairy. It totally sucks to find out we have been lied to.

The facts were changed to serve there greater purpose. Very few truthes still remain in the bible, only the blind still believe every word.

Oh by the way i have a bridge in Brookline for sale. Just a few mill and its yours.

[Guest]

You can only reach the Father through Jesus. If you truly regret your actions, I think you can be forgiven. Speaking of talking to God, let's discuss prayer now. I usually pray more than three times a day. God will answer your prayers, but He won't always give you what you hope for. He wants to hear thanks and will also give you things if they are to help the church or convert people. God is not a vending machine, but if you obey Him and aren't selfish or greedy, He usually rewards you.

Awwww come on, get real dude. your nothing but a blind mouse about to get its head chopped off

And by the looks of this site you think your doing gods work.... lol get real dude. you keep posting to keep this current but this is for intelegent people not blind mice; we all heard it before and we dont buy it!

[Guest]

Someone speaking in tongues is not a Satanist. If they do it without an interpreter, they just aren't helpingg the church with it, that's all. The Bible never said that gifts are no longer; in fact, it is a very much discussed topic in churches today. If you don't like this you don't need to post.

[Guest]

It seems unfair that I was made a Cristian without my consent. There should be a law about that Now I probably can't undo it!

So my question for Bran and anyone else: How can one reverse baptism? I don't want to change religion either

I should ask a priest about this. Actually I have a friend studying theology. I'll ask him and I'll let you know what he said.

I have nothing against people that believe in God it's just... I wanna choose and decide on my own. I don't like people telling me what to do (my grandmother) and what I should believe in and how to behave (except on BD *waves to Martini and rookie*)

I have wondered this myself. I was baptized prezbyterian and I made the mistake of being confirmed catholic before I got married, now I ant to take them back. I do not believe anything about the spiritual side of those actions, but the point is that other people do. Just as when I go to church with my wife (which happens occasionally, for her grandparents' benefit) I do not take communion. As far as I am concerned, going up to the front and eating a cracker and drinking some wine is just that. I refuse to do so out of respect for those who do believe in trans-substantiation who would be upset or insulted to know an atheist is taking communion in their church. Likewise, I know that communion, baptism and confirmation are considered to be sacraments, the holiest of holy events in a life. Marriage is also a sacrament and there is a solution to that in the eyes of the church, they grant an annulment and basically say that the wedding was non-sacramental for one reason or another and they pretend it never happened. This allows one or both people to be remarried in the church and to continue taking communion... etc.

I would like the same thing done for my baptism and my confirmation. I would like them annulled. I no longer wish to be considered Catholic nor Christian by anybody who might think I am just a sheep gone astray. I consider myself out, now I want a confirmation so to speak that they consider me out as well.

[Guest]

That's unfortunate.

[Izzy]

I'm actually kind of happy my parent's decision to let my baptizing be my own choice (not baptized). My dad was raised fairly religiously (and now has pretty strange views that I'm not going to get into..), but my mom was just a bit whatever. Believed, didn't care. (Atheist now, I've done some influencing. ) I was talking to my dad a while ago (parents divorced), and he mentioned something about baptizing his next kids, if he ever has any. I think that's a ridiculously stupid thing to do, give them the choice, but whatever. I highly doubt he's going to have another kid (mostly because I refuse to give up my only-child status), but if it comes, I might step in.

This isn't really Christian, albeit more American stupidity, but ex-Jewish male atheists have my condolences... Another decision I'm going to leave up to my future kids.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Izzy

[Guest]

Errrrrr.......Are you sure this is a CHRISTIAN disscusion?

[Izzy]

Errrrrr.......Are you sure this is a CHRISTIAN disscusion?

*browses thread* *sees lots of 'Jesus', 'God', 'Bible', and random bull* Yeah, fairly sure.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Izzy

[Guest]

seriously, I really wish people don't post on this thread to attack Christianity. This is about Christianity, not atheism.

[Izzy]

Eh, the Atheist Discussion thread got bombarded a bit. Also, come on, you're being over sensitive. There's practically no debating going on. People are discussing things.

[Guest]

yeah, fine, I just don't want atheism to get the thread of topic

[Guest]

Let's play the "an atheist responds" game

You can only reach the Father through Jesus.

Can you? I see no reason to accept that empty assertion. Don't believe you.

If you truly regret your actions, I think you can be forgiven.

Nice that you believe that. I assume you mean by your god, right?

Personally I only worry about those actually negatively affected by my actions. Not about them forgiving me; that's just selfish, but about rectifying any hurt I have caused. Nor do I focus on just easing my own feelings of guilt, of seeking personal comfort. That's moral reasoning, that is.

If I do something that I regret, that hurts myself and/or other people; then of what possible import is it that this god of yours forgives me?! Surely the focus should be on the actual victims?!

And just believing that he/she/it does, sounds suspiciously like letting yourself off the hook, and imagining that your sin/crime no longer counts, with no (further) consideration or amelioration to the actually injured parties. As long as you feel better eh?

Example: You hurt someones feelings, steal something or whatever. Go to (Catholic) Church, beg forgiveness from God, not the injured party, say a few hail Mary's, and believe you are forgiven, and give it no more thought. Apparently as long as YOU feel better for this belief that your God forgives you, then why think of it again, who cares about the actual injured parties? It's all about ridding YOURSELF of your feelings of guilt. That and the odd belief that all that matters is your god's forgiveness, no one else is of any moral value whatsoever!

Even if you are of the opinion that you need to get your gods forgiveness AND repay your misdeed to your victims (hopefully because it is the ethical thing to do, not just because you believe your god tells you too) then this forgiveness part still seems no more than self serving.

Speaking of talking to God, let's discuss prayer now.

Okely dokely.

I usually pray more than three times a day.

That wasn't a boast was it?

Talking in your own mind and believing that it is telepathically transmitted to your god, doesn't actually impress non believers.

God will answer your prayers, but He won't always give you what you hope for.

Immediately reminded me of this video:

He wants to hear thanks and will also give you things if they are to help the church or convert people.

That one has always kind of bugged me, even as a Christian:

What's up with that? Why does the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving god (the 3O god) have such a hard on for being thanked, praised and worshipped so much?! It just seems insane, desperate and tragically pitiful.

Especially seeing as the people we tend most often to see with such overbearing desires for constant recognition and praise do so due to desperately low self-esteem.

It really does make you god seem like a very 'small' god indeed.

In fact it immediately reminded me of what I call "Short Man Syndrome" where someone who is very conscious of their short stature (or any other imagined cause for an inferiority complex) feels the need to act in ways to constantly remind people that he is important, a "Big Man", and/or constantly seek recognition of same. The important thing is that it is a reaction to being or feeling inadequate and inferior. So one wonders why your god (according to many religious authorities, apologists and so on, at least) exemplifies it so well.

God is not a vending machine, but if you obey Him and aren't selfish or greedy, He usually rewards you.

Sounds like slave mentality to me. Coupled with a self-serving appeal to consequences.

Something I whipped up on the Slave mentality/Christianity thing a while back.

One has to wonder why so much in religious talk, while claiming to be the true (or even only) source of morals, is so focused on self satisfaction; what you have to do to get what you want. Childish bribery (classic appeal to consequences. strategy) as well: Be a good boy and daddy will by buy you an ice cream. That's not ethics, nor is it teaching ethics, its avoiding make the effort, and just using blatant bribery. Which really promotes selfishness more than anything: "Do unto others only if they will give you something you want in return."

[Guest]

seriously, I really wish people don't post on this thread to attack Christianity. This is about Christianity, not atheism.

So apparently talks about Christianity can only be positive? One sided? Seeking a bit of a confirmation bias hit are we? Not actually interested in actually productive discussion, just the kind of rhetoric that bolsters your pre-conceived assumptions? Don't you already have a regular time and place for that?

[Guest]

Something I whipped up on the Slave mentality/Christianity thing a while back.

Whenever you post a link to RichardDawkins.net I just get a page asking me to log in (don't know why since you can browse the forum without logging in). I'm probably not the only one - maybe if you're referencing your posts on there it would be better to cut and paste.