[Guest]

It is said that present scientists are working to find out new equations that joins the classical newtonian physics and modern quantum physics. They are searching for unified theroy that describes all physical forces in nature (gravitational, magnetic, electric)

If they are sucessful,we will recieve a set of complex equations and laws that governs how the universe keeps going.

Looking at even present laws, we see that how complex is the universe, the earth has to know the inverse square rules of gravitation to go round the sun, human beings themselves are such a complex machines operating on the earth.

The unified theory wll explains all these in terms of certain postulates and equations.

But why should the universe go for all the bother of existing at all???

[Guest]

I don't know if this had something to do with you asking the question in the first place but since I wrote this post last night with the aim of answering that, I'll point you to it just in case. Nobody else has commented on it, I hope I have been clear in what I've tried to say.

Broadly speaking, I'm questioning what is meant by "existing". How do we know our universe exists? Would it look any different to us if it didn't? If we were merely hypothetical beings in a hypothetical universe, how would we know? Such questions are perhaps a little confusing, but just intended to highlight my assertion that existence only means anything in a local sense of distinguishing between what belongs to our observable world and what does not. In universal terms I doubt that we need to ask the question, any more than we need ask whether real numbers exist, or topological spaces. Mathematical structures only need to be logically consistent in order to have clear properties. Viewing our universe as a mathematical structure, its logical consistency gives rise to clear properties, such as where you are or what you are thinking at this moment. It doesn't have to "exist", whatever that means.

[Guest]

But why should the universe go for all the bother of existing at all???

There isn't much for me to say on this topic that I haven't already said recently. This is another example of anthropocentrism, a very natural thing. However, we have needs, and question the purpose of our existence. The universe does not.

(Edit: clarity)

Edited March 12, 2009 by d3k3

[Izzy]

Well it's not really like the universe has a choice, is it? It's not going to wake-up one day and decide to commit suicide. It's not 'bothering' to exist, it simply does. If you mean, "What's the point of us not destroying the universe", it's that that would be an entirely stupid and pointless thing to do. Why ruin something so natural and beautiful?

Life is kinda pointless. The only reason I bother to exist is to learn things I haven't yet, and wonder if it gets more exciting. :/

[unreality]

^ that's nihilism if I ever saw it

Going back to what Octopuppy said, our universe really could be a hypothetical universe. They say that a 2d universe exists somewhere just because it's logically possible

This fleshes out the idea kinda:

http://xkcd.com/505/

Other than that I don't really have any answers for you Why does the universe exist - there are so many different views. Same with the meaning of life, since Izzy brought it up. She thinks it's pointless, I think exactly the opposite... it just shows that even within groups like atheists & agnostics, there are many differing opinions ;D

[Izzy]

So I had to look up what nihilism was, and I disagree with what you called me completely. See definition three. I actually believe in our consciousness and the universe being the way it is. Honestly, the "this is only a hypothetical dream" "we're not really here" "we're just someone else's mind experiment" view annoys me. We're here, and that's important. The universe, a big, grand, wonderful thing is somehow important. If it were to disappear, magically, no big deal to be honest, 'cos it'll just be like before it existed. I'm an empiricist if anything, just one who thinks if we were to fall over the sides of the universe someday, no big deal. But yeah, while we're here. Discover as much as possible.

*edit* Ah, unless you meant nihilism as the third definition here. Then yeah, that may be slightly true..

Edited March 12, 2009 by Izzy

[Guest]

beacause if the universe didn't exist, then we wouldn't either!!!1

LOL, btw Izzy, clear inbox!!!

Also my mom tells me God made the universe exist beacuase of us. Any thoughts? I don't agree. I think it always existed. No one can solve the universe... IT IS UNSOLVABLE! that is mi personal belief!

[Izzy]

IT IS UNSOLVABLE! that is mi personal belief!

Why not though? I have faith (shh, forbidden word ) in one thing: that no matter what happens, as time goes on science will advance. I don't think the universe is unsolvable at all. It just might take a while.

On a related note: I don't think the Theory of Everything will be a load of simple equations. I'm not convinced everything is connected.

[Guest]

Why not though? I have faith (shh, forbidden word ) in one thing: that no matter what happens, as time goes on science will advance. I don't think the universe is unsolvable at all. It just might take a while.

On a related note: I don't think the Theory of Everything will be a load of simple equations. I'm not convinced everything is connected.

AHHHH Izzy said the F word! (faith) jk... but seriously.... I don't think a math problem is going to solve the whole universe... Maybe light years away..... somebody had solved it all.... ya neva know!

[Guest]

^ that's nihilism if I ever saw it

Great. Now all I can think about is Karl Hungus...

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?

Walter: No, Donny. These men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.

[itachi-san]

Great. Now all I can think about is Karl Hungus...

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?

Walter: No, Donny. These men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.

this post really tied the thread together, man

[Guest]

Great. Now all I can think about is Karl Hungus...

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?

Walter: No, Donny. These men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.

I'm convinced the secrets of the universe were revealed in the musical dream sequence. I'm just too afraid to watch it again, as the consequences of knowing those secrets are as yet undetermined. My soul could implode!

edit: removed some redundancy

Edited March 13, 2009 by Grayven

[Guest]

It is said that present scientists are working to find out new equations that joins the classical newtonian physics and modern quantum physics. They are searching for unified theroy that describes all physical forces in nature (gravitational, magnetic, electric)

Right. Except (I'm pedantic at times, okay?):

It's Einsteinian and Quantum physics.

Magnetism and Electricity have been correlated for a long time, so the four fundamental forces are:

Gravity

Electromagnetism

The Weak electromagnetic force, and

The Strong electromagnetic force.

Although we also have equations connecting the middle two as "The electroweak interaction.")

If they are sucessful,we will recieve a set of complex equations and laws that governs how the universe keeps going.

Or maybe not that complex.

Looking at even present laws, we see that how complex is the universe, the earth has to know the inverse square rules of gravitation to go round the sun,

No the Earth doesn't have to know anything. Natural "laws" are just human devised description of what does happen naturally, no one or no thing has to understand (or even possess a mind) for them to happen.

The earth (and all objects affected by gravity) operate that way because that is how gravity affects matter.

human beings themselves are such a complex machines operating on the earth.

Oh yes indeed, as are all life forms, and a fair few other things besides. (some people object to humans being described as "machines", I am not one of them.)

The unified theory wll explains all these in terms of certain postulates and equations.

We hope so at least.

But why should the universe go for all the bother of existing at all???

What an odd question! And not at all related to any of that which you posted before!

First off; trouble with the language used: "Bother" That sounds like the universe had a choice, and that it is the kind of thing that might be capable of "bothering" or thinking, which does not meet with the available evidence at all.

Why and how did the universe come to exist? Short answer: No one knows. There is even doubts as to whether it had what could properly be called a beginning at all (While still being finite in the past - work that one out!)

The science gets terribly weird back there, and in fact that is one of the main reasons cosmologists are interested in joining those two kinds of physics that you mentioned together into what is (almost jokingly) called "theory of everything": So that they can have some hope of answering your question!

We can't answer your question definitively, until the physicists succeed in marrying Einsteinian and quantum physics into one standard set of physics that accommodates the entire universe from the huge to the minuscule, from the massive to the minute!