Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 We minimize the chance that an agent will block the spy by minimizing the number of agents. The spy is not going to die any time soon, and with less targets they'll be easier to control. So, since the goodies have no reason to be in a rush, why would someone push the possibility of making a mistake? Because all of a sudden we don't have a minimum of two nights before the spy or Neo can be killed? Because the baddies could possibly even have that many kills? Because we don't have saves? As of when did we lose all of OUR resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 What if the spy is blocked? <_< If JarZe is killed, they will not be able to block both the spy and the blocker and get a kill tonight. One will get through and give us crucial information in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Andromeda, how confident are you about Joe's Student? 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 100% And BB? The same? I understand the reasons why he should have been proven innocent, but I am not convinced about his reasons for not voting for JZ and voting for Randro. Is it the ability? If so, it would be a bad idea to vote or out him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) And BB? The same? I understand the reasons why he should have been proven innocent, but I am not convinced about his reasons for not voting for JZ and voting for Randro. Is it the ability? If so, it would be a bad idea to vote or out him. Well the lynch is over and BB is cool EDIT: If Randro is Smith or Thompson it's better to get one of them out of the way! If Randro is a goodie that's one suspect less... I'm on the same page with BB! Edited February 10, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) If JarZe is killed, they will not be able to block both the spy and the blocker and get a kill tonight. One will get through and give us crucial information in the morning. Absolutely. I don't understand why this is so hotly debated right now. Our WIN CONDITION is to delete all the agents and the Merovingian. There is a likelihood that we already satisfied the latter of the two. So let's get rid of a known agent. Why are we waiting? Let's keep this simple... Lynch JarZe Pros: - Lynch a known agent - Reduce Agent's ability to act at night - One step closer to WinCon - Don't lynch a possible Human by mistake Cons: - Reduce pressure on other players to post, by which we gain info. Lynch Randro Pros: - Attempt to force a defense (which fails if he is at school for another 2+hrs.) - Save JarZe for night attack by Neo - Maybe get two birds with one stone Cons: - A known agent lives another night - Agent Brown can affect lynch votes in the day AND be designated to kill at night - Run the risk of lynching a HUMAN because he was at school all day So, in my humble opinion, lynching JarZe is 4-1 and lynching Randro is 3-3. The four Pros for lynching JarZe are all stronger than the three for Randro as well. It is our WINCON. Let's move forward people and stop pushing and pulling in the name of "strategy". Why are we lynching Randro when he is not here to post? Edit: Andro - How in the history of Mafia is lynching a good guy a smart way to reduce suspects? Edited February 10, 2009 by Social_Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Randro never tried to defend himself. All he said was - I'm not a baddie! He did not hint at his role and there are some other things that I have read in his posts that seamed suspicious! The lynch is over let's let LIS to write the day post! Edit: Andro - How in the history of Mafia is lynching a good guy a smart way to reduce suspects? Ask BB!! His idea! Edited February 10, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 if there is a no contest??? It's over I make it 1hr 42 mis to go ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) The lynch is over let's let LIS to write the day post! Actually, according to his sig it looks like we have another hour and a half. EDIT:S_T, look at the logic. You should change your vote. Randro will be blocked tonight anyway if Dozer is paying attention. Edited February 10, 2009 by IDoNotExist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ask BB!! His idea! It's a terrible one. In the event that Randro turns out to be a goodie, I would just like to point out that yes, it was Bb's idea. Neo having a target isn't worth losing a goodie during the day, and if we lose a goodie today, I think I'll start off the lynch vote tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) All right but don't forget agent Brown's ability The Architect - Lost in Cyber Space 1 - Social Darwin (SD) - Voting for JarZe 2 - JarZe (JZ) - Voting for GC 3 - IDoNotExist (IDNE) - Voting for JarZe 4 - Izzy(IZ) DEAD - Tank 5 - Twin Pop (TP) DEAD - killed by Neo 6 - Izzy v2.0 DEAD killed by agents 7 - Andromeda (AND) - voting for JarZe 8 - BrandonB (BB) - voting for randro 9 - Crazy Painter (CP) - DEAD - killed by Agents 10 - Joe's Student (JS) - JarZe 11 - Grey Cells (GC) - voting for randro 12 - Impervious (IMP) - DEAD - killed by Neo/Merovingian 13 - Renan (REN) - voting for randro 14 - TwoaDay (TAD) - voting for randro 15 - Randro (RAN)- - voting for TwoaDay 16 - Star Tiger (ST) - voting for randro 17 - Some Guy (SG) - voting for JarZe 18 - Prof.Templeton (PT) deleted (Johnson) Happy now <_< I'm the Oracle you know... you don't talk to me like that EDIT: ST what is your opinion Edited February 10, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Exactly. They are the agents (unless you got false info one night). But if we got TP wrong, then GC would be a likely candidate for the Frechman guy. No way! We get more info if we lynch Randro Think about it. 1- We are the most sure that JZ is an agent. So what do we gain from lynching him? Nothing... Then tonight Neo kills Randro an we gain what??? nothing but skepticism over whether we killed the right person. 2- We lynch Randro and gain what? A confirmation on his identity. Then tonight Neo kills JZ and we gain what? Peace of mind that an agent was killed. That way tomorrow, we will know exactly how many agents are remaining. So, we must lynch Randro to be certain There are several flaws to this logic. 1. We gain a step towards our win condition. The whole reason we play is to delete Agents. Somehow people forgot this during the game and made it all about setting traps. I know you set traps and leave hints to discover roles. I'm not dense. But we DID discover a role. Now we should act on it - delete the agent. That is what we gain. We also gain peace of mind that we didn't delete a possible HUMAN because we thought it was good strategy. 2. There is no guarantee that lynching Randro will expose his identity. I understand there is a chance (RDs) but it's not certain. Apoc kidnapped JarZe to discover his role and it failed. And it set us back from lynching him a while ago. There is nothing certain about this method except that an agent lives another night. Randro may turn out to be good and revealed (which sucks for us) or regardless of affiliation his role may not be revealed (good or bad that still sucks) or he may turn out to be bad and revealed (good for us). So 1 in 4 outcomes is beneficial. Two are mediocre. One is detrimental. I know it's a moot point right now but how is this good strategy? Anyone ever hear of zero sum game theory? Nash equalibrium? (QED right here - do I have to draw the diagram??). The only way this will turn out well is if Randro was bad AND is revealed. If that's the case, then we lucked out (25%). The true gain is in lynching JarZe (100%). Andro - as the Oracle you should know above all that INVESTIGATING Randro is a better alternative to lynching him. Edit: Spelling and: All right but don't forget agent Brown's ability Which is why we need a majority vote for JarZe. BB is "cool" but his vote is sabatoge (whether he knows it or not). Everyone who voted for Randro needs to change their vote to JarZe soon. The Agents can still manipulate this lynch in their favor unless we unite! Edited February 10, 2009 by Social_Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Andro - as the Oracle you should know above all that INVESTIGATING Randro is a better alternative to lynching him. Thompson will redirect me yet again! I will not find out who randro is. I'm pretty much useless. So if there is the slightest chance that Randro might be Thompson I say we go for it! I may still change my vote, besides like I said JarZe can make one vote not count on odd days! Guess what! If these votes stay like this Randro is getting lynched anyway! Unless two more people change their vote... Edited February 10, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Thompson will redirect me yet again! I will not find out who randro is. I'm pretty much useless. So if there is the slightest chance that Randro might be Thompson I say we go for it! Read the RDs please. He can only divert on ODD nights. We are approaching NIGHT FOUR. He cannot divert your action. DO YOU SEE??????? I may still change my vote, besides like I said JarZe can make one vote not count on odd days! Guess what! If these votes stay like this Randro is getting lynched anyway! Unless two more people change their vote... Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution? Edited February 10, 2009 by Social_Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thompson will redirect me yet again! I will not find out who randro is. I'm pretty much useless. So if there is the slightest chance that Randro might be Thompson I say we go for it! I may still change my vote, besides like I said JarZe can make one vote not count on odd days! Guess what! If these votes stay like this Randro is getting lynched anyway! Thompson - Randro? Jones - Dead? (imp) Johnson - Dead Brown - JarZe Smith - Unknown Here is what you believe right now. If Thompson does choose to redirect you, that is one less agent that can be used as a killer. That only leaves smith and possibly Jones if we lynch Brown. If jones is Imp, than we have left smith with no choice but to be dedicated to the kill. Also, if randro is Thompson than we can just have Dozer Block him and you will not be redirected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 It is possible that you will be redirected, but if you're redirected then we get to keep our saves, and our kills, and our... well, maybe there's a hidden spy ability out there? You were redirected last night, and it helped us. If we lynch Brown, and Thompson redirects you, then they lose an agent, and we run the risk of losing a spy. If we lynch randro and he's NOT Thompson? Or worse, not an Agent? We're in the same situation, possibly even down a save, or worse. Not a risk I want to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) READ THE ROLES. THOMPSON CANNOT DIVERT ON EVEN NIGHTS. THIS WILL BE NIGHT FOUR!!! ANDRO - INVESTIGATE RANDRO. HUMANS - LYNCH JARZE. Edited February 10, 2009 by Social_Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Don't worry about Jones... ST... blah, blah... Oracle... night post! OK then Thompson can't block me, well we still need those votes, where did ST go? ST stop paying attention on class and get over here to help us lynch JZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Can we, just as a courtesy thing, try to express how we feel in normal English? For myself it's kind of annoying to show up and read things in size 32 bolded font, or all caps, etc. This is particularly obnoxious when it's the whole post. Even without the text differentiation I'm capable of figuring out what you think is important about your post, and it may not be what I think is important about your post. Also, if you do it to your whole post, my gut reaction is to treat the whole thing as unimportant. This isn't an AOL chat room, most of the people here are fairly intelligent, and therefore do not need to be shouted at (all caps is interwebz for yelling, last I checked), and by and large I think of it as being rude. Sorry if this seems a little ranty, and it's certainly off topic, but this thread has been rather full of it, and it's just bugging me. On topic: I was unaware that he could only divert on even nights, I suppose I'd missed that. Andro, you don't need to be worried about tonight, or even tomorrow. We have saves, we have blocks, and we have the rules on our side keeping yourself and Neo alive. What I WOULD be worried about is LIS vanillaing your role because you've outed yourself so very thoroughly. Either way, however, what's done is done. I would feel more comfortable with a few more JarZes and a few less randro's on that roster, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) What I WOULD be worried about is LIS vanillaing your role because you've outed yourself so very thoroughly. Um... it wasn't me... first Riranor asked for guidance and then PT said - The Oracle has finally spoken or something like that. You've just said we are fairly intelligent, so why pretend like you don't know who I am! Besides LIS said I'm cool because it wasn't really me outing myself. I've known who you are for days, it was just against the rules to state it black and white. Semantics Edited February 10, 2009 by andromeda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Um... it wasn't me... first Riranor asked for guidance and then PT said - The Oracle has finally spoken or something like that. You've just said we are fairly intelligent, so why pretend like you don't know who I am! I've known who you are for days, it was just against the rules to state it black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 My all CAPS was because I was shouting. I wasn't trying to be rude but I was trying to be loud. The fact that all participants in the discussion failed to notice something critical about Agent Thompson's ability demonstrated to me a need to express very obviously the missing component. Admittedly, you missed it in my first post as well. I rarely use font manipulation simply to make a point (I think of it more as a hint-dropping tool) but sometimes it needs to be done. And when I feel it does, I will do so without apology. I agree there is a standard online etiquette that frowns upon excessive bolding, sizing, etc., and I will do my best to adhere to it. But keep in mind, in an online environment with no audible tone of voice or discernable facial expressions, inherent meaning can be easily lost. Font manipulation is our only method of expressing the otherwise inexpressible. On topic: After tonight, assuming we can successfully lynch JarZe, we will know with certainty who Randro is. Then we can deal with him in light of all the facts. I would feel better not lynching him without knowing more. We know all we need to about JarZe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 JarZe, if you change your vote to lynch yourself I will trust that you are a goodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 The Architect - Lost in Cyber Space 1 - Social Darwin (SD) - Voting for JarZe 2 - JarZe (JZ) - Voting for GC 3 - IDoNotExist (IDNE) - Voting for JarZe 4 - Izzy(IZ) DEAD - Tank 5 - Twin Pop (TP) DEAD - killed by Neo 6 - Izzy v2.0 DEAD killed by agents 7 - Andromeda (AND) - voting for JarZe 8 - BrandonB (BB) - voting for randro 9 - Crazy Painter (CP) - DEAD - killed by Agents 10 - Joe's Student (JS) - JarZe 11 - Grey Cells (GC) - voting for randro 12 - Impervious (IMP) - DEAD - killed by Neo/Merovingian 13 - Renan (REN) - voting for randro 14 - TwoaDay (TAD) - voting for randro 15 - Randro (RAN)- - voting for TwoaDay 16 - Star Tiger (ST) - Dead - killed by Smith using Jones secret discovery of Architects secret x-termin-8 code 17 - Some Guy (SG) - voting for JarZe 18 - Prof.Templeton (PT) deleted (Johnson) EDIT: ST what is your opinion No answer was the stern reply - ST deceased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) 16 - Star Tiger (ST) - Dead - killed by Smith using Jones secret discovery of Architects secret x-termin-8 code No answer was the stern reply - ST deceased. Edited February 10, 2009 by IDoNotExist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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