[Guest]

Sign up to peace club in the sign-up thread!

This thread is for discussions on what you think about peace.

I haven't said where I stand yet, so I'll start off.

Not long ago I was one of those cynics who thought peace "ain't gonna happen", and that you need war to really feel the true value of proper peace. But it was easy for me to say that because I've never had to live in a wartorn country in fear for my life. In the past few few weeks my view has changed a lot. I think if we can stop our wars with our fellow man, let's. War is unnecessary.

Edited August 13, 2008 by lemonymelon

[Guest]

This to me highlights a problem with how terrorism seems to be perceived, particularly in the USA. Once upon a time when two bunches of people didn't like each other they would kit up with swords and shields (or later, guns), line up on opposite sides of a field, then march forward and kill each other until only one side was left. Ah, those were the days! However, terrorists don't play that game any more. You can't just go and "kill the terrorists" because you don't know where, or for the most part, who, the terrorists are. They won't even line up neatly! They hide amongst innocent people. And if you try to kill the terrorists you end up killing lots of innocent people, and then, guess what? Many more people become so appalled by your actions and the jingoistic ignorance that drives them, that they are persuaded to become terrorists or support terrorism. You cannot have a war on terrorism. All it does is make more terrorists. Terrorism is not a country. It is not a political movement, or an organisation. It is a form of behaviour. It is what happens when ordinary civilians are driven to such extremes that they feel it is their moral duty to abandon a peaceful existence and take up the gun and the bomb. What provokes this? Answer that and then you can start to combat terrorism.

PS. I agree with solemnraven that the terror threat has been falsified to control public opinion, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that 9-11 was an "inside job". The US government may have turned a blind eye to the threat (until after the event) but IMHO that seems to be mainly due to blinkered incompetence.

i will agree with most of this.

the inside job evidence is very clear if you know where to look. check out movie Zeitgeist and the sequel to that movie for more information. basically they used thermite to cut the support beams which is why

1. they took all the evidence of both towers away

2. why building 7 came down at all

3. why people who were government affiliated and friends of the rothchild family knew to stay away from NY that day

watch the movie...seriously there is amazing proof from many reporters and documentarians who have gathered it all for us.

LOVE to all who wish to inform themselves, take their own opinions, and try to spread what they believe in the name of PEACE.

quick edit for: welcome aboard Duh Puck

Edited September 13, 2008 by solemnraven

[akaslickster]

I am just expressing my believe of common courtesy, which if works for all, sure works for me.

I know you all want say that it does not work for all, as well as world peace.

So I feel that if it is dropped like a lead balloon, then at least an attempt has been made.

Negativity is what brought crud in the world. I want to see positive thinking and respectful results. May not be tomorrow but, the children of tomorrow will appreciate the help from the nice thinkers of today. Peace ya'll.

[Guest]

PS. I agree with solemnraven that the terror threat has been falsified to control public opinion, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that 9-11 was an "inside job". The US government may have turned a blind eye to the threat (until after the event) but IMHO that seems to be mainly due to blinkered incompetence.

This remind me of a simular thing which could of happened a Perl Harbour. Some people say they let the attack progress so America would join the war.. hmm..

[akaslickster]

This remind me of a simular thing which could of happened a Perl Harbour. Some people say they let the attack progress so America would join the war.. hmm..

Before that there was alot of wrongfulness that people simply went along with. Good thing hitler is gone.

[Guest]

Before that there was alot of wrongfulness that people simply went along with. Good thing hitler is gone.

one person can not live forever.... do bad and die

a person think his life important.

not true other person important, more important

we do that, we make everyone important. not self first

[Guest]

Welcome aboard, Duh Puck

Thanks for pasting that over, slick!

It's understandable that the tragedy of 9/11 would come up in discussion around its anniversary, but I just wanted to offer a few thoughts to help keep it in perspective. I watched the whole thing go down from my Brooklyn office (and from just over a mile away, that Manhattan skyline looked pretty close). I was glued to the window, watching in shock, as the plane flew into the second tower, and my stomach was queasy until after the second building collapsed and there was nothing left to see but a cloud of dust. It was without question the most horrifying thing I've ever witnessed. And yet ...

The primary result is that a few thousand people died a terrible death in the space of about an hour. Compare that with the tens of millions who have been killed and tortured in genocides in the past century. 9/11 was especially disturbing because of the visual impact of watching those iconic buildings burn and collapse, but on the global scale, that was just a footnote in human suffering.

Anyhow, I'll steer clear of the conjecture on what responsibility, if any, the U.S. government had in the whole ordeal (although incompetence seems far more likely than actual planning to me), but Octopuppy's observations about the resultant war on terrorism ring true. In the weeks and months after 9/11, I cringed to see the chest-thumping display of flag-waving solidarity that resounded throughout the country. While I understood how Toby Keith's fist-shaking country anthem Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American) resonated with people, it was disturbing. Consider this line from the song:

This big dog will fight

When you rattle his cage

And you'll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A.

'Cause we'll put in a boot in your a**

It's the American way.

People's identities become wrapped up in the country in which they live. Rather than saying "I'm from the U.S." they say "I'm an American." The tendency is to take personal pride or shame in the successes and failures of one's nation, and this subtle indoctrination of national pride, usually promoted though propaganda by the governments, is at the core of much of the blind fervor expressed in that song. The same thing is what caused Germans to follow Hitler, and the Soviets to support Stalin. In recent years the Russian people strongly approved as Putin gradually weakened personal freedoms in favor of a strong central government, because many longed for the days when Russia was a world power, even if it was under oppressive communism. If the current American power were to crumble, it's easy to see the American people doing the same.

If you truly want peace, you have to get to the root causes of conflict, and the events since 9/11 have brought to the foreground just how far we are from succeeding in that. In the meantime, China and Russia continue to gain in power and flex their muscle. North Korea and Iran have had a measure of success in their respective chess games, playing word games and dangling the threat of nuclear war in exchange for relevance and resources. The war against terrorism has eroded goodwill toward the U.S. and, even if there have been short term successes (hey, we haven't had another major act of terrorism in the last seven years, and you know Al Quaeda had to be trying), the eventual result will likely be a future of American-hating Islamic radicals. It seems to me that the world is becoming ever more ripe for yet another round of conflict-induced suffering.

Do you think that peaceful well-wishing will change that?

[akaslickster]

Thanks for pasting that over, slick!

It's understandable that the tragedy of 9/11 would come up in discussion around its anniversary, but I just wanted to offer a few thoughts to help keep it in perspective. I watched the whole thing go down from my Brooklyn office (and from just over a mile away, that Manhattan skyline looked pretty close). I was glued to the window, watching in shock, as the plane flew into the second tower, and my stomach was queasy until after the second building collapsed and there was nothing left to see but a cloud of dust. It was without question the most horrifying thing I've ever witnessed. And yet ...

The primary result is that a few thousand people died a terrible death in the space of about an hour. Compare that with the tens of millions who have been killed and tortured in genocides in the past century. 9/11 was especially disturbing because of the visual impact of watching those iconic buildings burn and collapse, but on the global scale, that was just a footnote in human suffering.

Anyhow, I'll steer clear of the conjecture on what responsibility, if any, the U.S. government had in the whole ordeal (although incompetence seems far more likely than actual planning to me), but Octopuppy's observations about the resultant war on terrorism ring true. In the weeks and months after 9/11, I cringed to see the chest-thumping display of flag-waving solidarity that resounded throughout the country. While I understood how Toby Keith's fist-shaking country anthem Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American) resonated with people, it was disturbing. Consider this line from the song:

This big dog will fight

When you rattle his cage

And you'll be sorry that you messed with the U.S. of A.

'Cause we'll put in a boot in your a**

It's the American way.

People's identities become wrapped up in the country in which they live. Rather than saying "I'm from the U.S." they say "I'm an American." The tendency is to take personal pride or shame in the successes and failures of one's nation, and this subtle indoctrination of national pride, usually promoted though propaganda by the governments, is at the core of much of the blind fervor expressed in that song. The same thing is what caused Germans to follow Hitler, and the Soviets to support Stalin. In recent years the Russian people strongly approved as Putin gradually weakened personal freedoms in favor of a strong central government, because many longed for the days when Russia was a world power, even if it was under oppressive communism. If the current American power were to crumble, it's easy to see the American people doing the same.

If you truly want peace, you have to get to the root causes of conflict, and the events since 9/11 have brought to the foreground just how far we are from succeeding in that. In the meantime, China and Russia continue to gain in power and flex their muscle. North Korea and Iran have had a measure of success in their respective chess games, playing word games and dangling the threat of nuclear war in exchange for relevance and resources. The war against terrorism has eroded goodwill toward the U.S. and, even if there have been short term successes (hey, we haven't had another major act of terrorism in the last seven years, and you know Al Quaeda had to be trying), the eventual result will likely be a future of American-hating Islamic radicals. It seems to me that the world is becoming ever more ripe for yet another round of conflict-induced suffering.

Do you think that peaceful well-wishing will change that?

Of course we all know that wishes are wishes that never have any effect. I blew out alot of B-day candles, and I never yet saw one come true. Pray to St. Anthony for a job. Spare me the satire.

I would simply love for 90% of the world to agree to stop the murders of people in every land on this earth and help to explain the stupidity and help by speaking up. Then it would be easier for them to convert a minority to think alike. If I have a stupid wish then, I should not give a darn about anyones life at all.

My word is to spread the non-terror message as much as possible. Also, to provide a peaceful way to end world wars and senseless killings. There will be much negativity about this, that I would like to end as well.

Fact remains that not enough earthlings, value life enough to stand up firm and say, enough of this BS.

It cannot hurt to rub it in, that killings and war are not righteous, not good for environment, and costly, and completely unnecessary. I would like to travel anywhere I please without BS. MOre later. Bedtime. for me.

Edited September 17, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

I would simply love for 90% of the world to agree to stop the murders of people in every land on this earth and help to explain the stupidity and help by speaking up. Then it would be easier for them to convert a minority to think alike. If I have a stupid wish then, I should not give a darn about anyones life at all.

My word is to spread the non-terror message as much as possible. Also, to provide a peaceful way to end world wars and senseless killings. There will be much negativity about this, that I would like to end as well.

Fact remains that not enough earthlings, value life enough to stand up firm and say, enough of this BS.

It cannot hurt to rub it in, that killings and war are not righteous, not good for environment, and costly, and completely unnecessary. I would like to travel anywhere I please without BS. MOre later. Bedtime. for me.

I understand, but I guess what I was kinda trying to get at is that a "peaceful way to end wars and senseless killings" has to get to the heart of what causes those things in the first place. It's like saying you want to end crime by spreading a positive message while poverty, injustice, and a predominant me-first attitude stick around. It seems to me that as long as the attitudes (e.g., nationalistic pride) and causes (e.g., religious intolerance, unfair control of resources) are still around, it's going to be near impossible to achieve the desired outcome.

Good night.

[Guest]

I would simply love for 90% of the world to agree to stop the murders of people in every land on this earth and help to explain the stupidity and help by speaking up. Then it would be easier for them to convert a minority to think alike. If I have a stupid wish then, I should not give a darn about anyones life at all.

i think over 90% want peace, only some leader make war. meaning easiy to convert less peple to peace.

we say - be careful what wishes are for

It cannot hurt to rub it in, that killings and war are not righteous, not good for environment, and costly, and completely unnecessary. I would like to travel anywhere I please without BS. MOre later.

why travel. can see much siiting still.

walking to is also walking away - direction must be certain or much is missed

[Guest]

The reality is that deep inside of us lies that desire to fight. That aggression can be released in a peaceful way but many do not choose that path, rather they bottle it up inside. As for war, it is all about power and money now. As long as wealth and greed are present, we will never have "world peace". But you as a single person can become quite peaceful and compassionate and influence those around you. It's not much in the grand scheme of things but all most care about is their lives anyway.

It is very hard to forgive everyone, even Hitler as many have mentioned. But if one holds resentment in one's heart, there's no room for anything else...

I would love for everyone to just "let go" however they accomplish this. I would highly recommend taking a few martial arts classes, going to the gym, boxing, or an activity that involves fighiting that is in a controlled and peaceful environment...it will change your outlook on aggression and you won't have to become religious or meditate for hours every day for 3 years to feel what I'm talking about. I challenge everyone to try it, at least once. There is no sense in denying what lies deep within us...we might as well nurture and bring it out of us in a peaceful way. And for those of you who tried and failed, try again. There's a black belt in us all, it is up to us to bring it out. And I would highly recommend finding an older martial arts instructor, one who has given up competition and does not practice to win, but rather for fun and as a life choice.

[Guest]

World peace was put best in that show Star Trek...the secret lies in that they gave up the concept of money and each person just contributed to society for their slice of the pie. Similar things have been tried in the past and worked on paper only, I know...but this seems to be the only way for world peace. Does anyone agree?? And even on that TV show, they still had to go to war with aliens all of the time...makes you wonder what life will be like in 100 years.

[akaslickster]

I understand, but I guess what I was kinda trying to get at is that a "peaceful way to end wars and senseless killings" has to get to the heart of what causes those things in the first place. It's like saying you want to end crime by spreading a positive message while poverty, injustice, and a predominant me-first attitude stick around. It seems to me that as long as the attitudes (e.g., nationalistic pride) and causes (e.g., religious intolerance, unfair control of resources) are still around, it's going to be near impossible to achieve the desired outcome.

Good night.

Much agreed. People should approach each of these heart of the matters constantly and try to reason with them respectfully and cooperatively. Spreading the message is not expected to end jack.

It is to show support and interest for an objective. I know it is the biggest challenge ever thought of. The idea is to bring folks from everywhere together and then work together and keep at it. There is the other option of just completely giving up because it is sooooo, soooooo allegedly impossible.

I believe most of this club believes peace without wars is possible in the future. It needs active people.

Maybe not for a long time but, I say give peace a chance as well.

[akaslickster]

World peace was put best in that show Star Trek...the secret lies in that they gave up the concept of money and each person just contributed to society for their slice of the pie. Similar things have been tried in the past and worked on paper only, I know...but this seems to be the only way for world peace. Does anyone agree?? And even on that TV show, they still had to go to war with aliens all of the time...makes you wonder what life will be like in 100 years.

Interesting, only thing is this is non-fiction. I am open to anything that is reasonable. When there is a will, there is a way. Too bad it takes so darn long. I will agree partially but who really knows for sure. There has to be other possible successful negotiations. Keep thinking.

[Guest]

Interesting, only thing is this is non-fiction. I am open to anything that is reasonable. When there is a will, there is a way. Too bad it takes so darn long. I will agree partially but who really knows for sure. There has to be other possible successful negotiations. Keep thinking.

Well we can always see what happens with the presidency and hope they pull out of the middle east. There is too much emphasis on national policing and fear of terrorism. A life in fear is not much of a life, especially knowing that we all die anyways so what's the point in being afraid to let go of this world. Look at what is going on around us in the US. Everybody is killing eachother over pety items. Doing what I do for a living puts me around teenage gangs a lot and their bad side. At first I just want to let these little punks who would rather kill me than look at me ( most of them are only 14 or 15, very sad but all too true...trust me) have a taste of their own medicine, but then I realize they are just misguided. The adult criminals are different because they should know better and probably have had a lot of "second chances" to straighten up. But the little mini-gang bangers really hit home for me. I know I can't change their perception on what's cool, like rap almost hypnotizing them with repitition of killing and doing drugs, but instead try to enforce their behavior until we are on to our next fad of the 2010 decade...hopefully it will be cool to be nice. I don't remember a time in my 27 years of life that it was cool to be a nice guy in school. Now that I'm all grown up, I understand it's the way to go. A simple "window" into our culture now is to look at the movies that are coming out. You can tell that my generation is becoming the adults of the US, the leaders and such if you will. We will see what a Kurt Cobain influenced bunch will do in the decade to come. Should be a wild ride!! LOL

Does anyone have family fighting over seas? What do you think about war since you are affected the most personally?

[akaslickster]

Well we can always see what happens with the presidency and hope they pull out of the middle east. There is too much emphasis on national policing and fear of terrorism. A life in fear is not much of a life, especially knowing that we all die anyways so what's the point in being afraid to let go of this world. Look at what is going on around us in the US. Everybody is killing eachother over pety items. Doing what I do for a living puts me around teenage gangs a lot and their bad side. At first I just want to let these little punks who would rather kill me than look at me ( most of them are only 14 or 15, very sad but all too true...trust me) have a taste of their own medicine, but then I realize they are just misguided. The adult criminals are different because they should know better and probably have had a lot of "second chances" to straighten up. But the little mini-gang bangers really hit home for me. I know I can't change their perception on what's cool, like rap almost hypnotizing them with repitition of killing and doing drugs, but instead try to enforce their behavior until we are on to our next fad of the 2010 decade...hopefully it will be cool to be nice. I don't remember a time in my 27 years of life that it was cool to be a nice guy in school. Now that I'm all grown up, I understand it's the way to go. A simple "window" into our culture now is to look at the movies that are coming out. You can tell that my generation is becoming the adults of the US, the leaders and such if you will. We will see what a Kurt Cobain influenced bunch will do in the decade to come. Should be a wild ride!! LOL

Does anyone have family fighting over seas? What do you think about war since you are affected the most personally?

Well my generation had gangs and stuff too. I think most of them pull out of it for the good of their own future. They might be to stubborn and spend life in jail. 3 free meals a day that we pay for.

This election is crazy, though we should have finished in the middle east by now. Hopefully yes, that the new president will take out our troops before the suicide bombers do.

Good to have you return. Peace.

[Guest]

i was watching a bit of this documentary yesterday.

here's a wikipedia link to what it was about. links at the bottom are pretty cool too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_one_day

[akaslickster]

I need to keep these threads in one place so I want to share a peaceful poem. Goes like this:

If ever you love the one you don't know,

do not be ashamed to give it a go.

Way up high, the one who rules,

will separate, the goodies from the fools.

********go for it!

Anyone who is in this club is welcome to continue it as nicely as possible. Jeepers, I should have thought about this a long time ago!

Edited October 11, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

Adding a line to Akaslickster's poem

If ever you love the one you don't know,

do not be ashamed to give it a go.

Way up high, the one who rules,

will separate, the goodies from the fools.

We may falter in darkness, we need light

That does not give anyone a reason to fight

He who has never loved someone will never know

What makes my friend Akaslickster's face GLOW

[akaslickster]

Adding a line to Akaslickster's poem

If ever you love the one you don't know,

do not be ashamed to give it a go.

Way up high, the one who rules,

will separate, the goodies from the fools.

We may falter in darkness, we need light

That does not give anyone a reason to fight

He who has never loved someone will never know

What makes my friend Akaslickster's face GLOW

Any club members may continue with the next verse.

[peace*out]

If ever you love the one you don't know,

do not be ashamed to give it a go.

Way up high, the one who rules,

will separate, the goodies from the fools.

We may falter in darkness, we need light

That does not give anyone a reason to fight

He who has never loved someone will never know

What makes my friend Akaslickster's face GLOW

We all are humans, we share something the same,

being mean and fighting is no fun game

Peace will rule earth and everywhere

And even the killer may start to share

[Guest]

If ever you love the one you don't know,

do not be ashamed to give it a go.

Way up high, the one who rules,

will separate, the goodies from the fools.

We may falter in darkness, we need light

That does not give anyone a reason to fight

He who has never loved someone will never know

What makes my friend Akaslickster's face GLOW

We all are humans, we share something the same,

being mean and fighting is no fun game

Peace will rule earth and everywhere

And even the killer may start to share

Seeing the guns flash, and the rockets fall

I look back, and wonder "What was the reason for this all?"

Violence never helps, one way or another

Peace will always be alive, it's the one thing war cannot smother

(keep adding people!)

Edited December 23, 2008 by RainThinker

[Guest]

...this topic has been left alone 4 quite a while...is there a new 1?...I just joined the Peace Club...my belief is that if we start with teaching the children how 2 B accepting of others and how 2 promote peace we may eventually have peace in the world...my daughter is almost 5 and already she knows that people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, and some even get 'cool chairs 2 ride around in'[Chay]...if we teach our children these things, then they can teach the next generation and so on...

[peace*out]

...this topic has been left alone 4 quite a while...is there a new 1?...I just joined the Peace Club...my belief is that if we start with teaching the children how 2 B accepting of others and how 2 promote peace we may eventually have peace in the world...my daughter is almost 5 and already she knows that people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, and some even get 'cool chairs 2 ride around in'[Chay]...if we teach our children these things, then they can teach the next generation and so on...

This is the same topic, and as far as I know, the only one! Do you want to add onto the poem?

[Guest]

...poem...*looks around*...I don't C any poems...*looks up at Rain's post*...is that it?...

[Guest]

...poem...*looks around*...I don't C any poems...*looks up at Rain's post*...is that it?...

We each wrote a stanza, so feel free to add if you feel like.