[Guest]

First question

Would you define boxing as sport? I say It's just a fight!

Second question

Which sports should not be considered as sports? Gymnastics is a competition sure, but sport?

Third question

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

[onetruth]

Well, dictionary.com defines sport as:

–noun 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.

1. I would loosely call it a contact sport. There are two sides, a competition, a winner, and a loser, and a referee.

2. Golf, bowling, hunting (or any shooting), fishing (from the above list), figure skating, gymnastics, darts, kayaking, bobsledding and things along those lines. Maybe even track. I think of sports as A vs. B, with one winner and one loser, and a lot of sweat.

3. There is something less satisfying about a professional winning a medal than an amateur.

[itachi-san]

First question

Would you define boxing as sport? I say It's just a fight!

I say it's a sport. There are plenty of rules (though they're all similar of course). A real fight (to me) is more like kick boxing or UFC fights where there are not many rules and you can do almost anything you would in a street fight. Having said that, I've never been too keen on calling 1 on 1 competitions sports. Boxing, tennis, pool, Track and Field, swimming, etc... I recognize that they are sports, but if it were up to me I would call them competitions or events. I feel like sports should be a team effort.

Second question

Which sports should not be considered as sports? Gymnastics is a competition sure, but sport?

I basically just answered this. I think anything that does not involve a team should not be a sport. It gets a little hazy with relays in track and so forth, but I still think that's not a sport. I ran track (800 m) so I have nothing against it; it's just nothing like football, soccer, basketball, etc... which I think are pure sports.

Third question

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

I have a big problem with the Olympics now. They seem to allow anything. Why not a pie eating contest or a competition to see who can spit ants the farthest? I think it's gotten a bit silly. There should absolutely be no professionals first of all. Second, there should be no sports (as I define sports above). So, no baseball, softball, basketball, hockey, etc... I think the Olympics should be pure 1 on 1 (with relay exceptions) competition and they should stop adding silly events and professional sports. I feel like the Olympics have lost a lot of integrity due to the amount of competitions they now embrace.

[Guest]

First question

Would you define boxing as sport? I say It's just a fight!

I think boxing, besides the physical skills involves, takes a lot of mental decision making, both in the ring and beforehand. However, as you will see to my answer below, I have one problem with boxing as a sport.

(That being said, you can have sportsmanship in something that isn't necessarily a sport )

Second question

Which sports should not be considered as sports? Gymnastics is a competition sure, but sport?

My rules are these:

1. Does it take a physical ability that many people do not have to be able to excell at the highest level? (this is why chess is not a sport)

2. Does it take a mental focus at a high level to either use those abilities, or to plan a strategy? (this is why a game like darts may be borderline ... need a skill only. This is why golf probably IS a sport, because it goes beyond skill to concentration and choice making).

3. Is there anything you can do in your sport which significantly can impact how your competitors will do? (this is why bowling and golf may be borderline, as all you can do is put pressure on your opponent by your individual success).

4. Is the outcome of your winning or losing based on rules instead of judging (this is why Gymnastics is not a sport to me, nor diving, figure skating or perhaps boxing).

Someone else posted tennis not being a sport. I think many one-on-one competitions are sports as long as reason #3 is met. Footraces (marathons) are borderline to me, along with swimming and other timed events, but if you can directly impact your opponents success by how you do, it is a sport to me.

Third question

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

My opinion, is that people who are paid to make their living playing a sport can achieve greater and higher levels of their performance than people forced to work for a living and play the sport on the side. I'd rather see the best striving to be the best myself.

I do see the other side with the whole "purity" of the sport, but to me, keep that separate. Make the Olympics amateur only? Ok, as long as you realize you aren't seeing the true "best" performers at that sport. And to be honest, I'd be fine with that.

I am sick of the professional team sports players playing the Olympics though.

[Guest]

I have a big problem with the Olympics now. They seem to allow anything. Why not a pie eating contest or a competition to see who can spit ants the farthest? I think it's gotten a bit silly. There should absolutely be no professionals first of all. Second, there should be no sports (as I define sports above). So, no baseball, softball, basketball, hockey, etc... I think the Olympics should be pure 1 on 1 (with relay exceptions) competition and they should stop adding silly events and professional sports. I feel like the Olympics have lost a lot of integrity due to the amount of competitions they now embrace.

I like this idea of eliminating team sports from the Olympics with relay exceptions, and making them competitions only.

Create a "World" games for each individual sport if you want, like baseball does now, but no need for them at the Olympics.

And then, let's get back to the every 4 years with both summer and winter, instead of alternating every two, since the summer games will be down to a managable size again.

But I think we're a bit off topic now.

[itachi-san]

But I think we're a bit off topic now.

I don't think so:

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

I took "keep it basic" to mean more than just a question about amateurs/professionals in light of the previous questions about sports. But yeah, I like the 4 year interval for both. I think the Winter should still be Olympics, but not the "real" Olympics and more of an X-Games thing only with more worldly value (though X-Games are sweet). Sports should just have their own international competition like the World Cup for soccer and they should stay out of the Olympics. The summer Olympics should go back to the oldschool competitions of Track of Field and Swimming, maybe a couple others. It would mean so much more to watch the 400m relay and then NOT see a softball game or something so very un-Olympic.

[Guest]

Interesting that Itachi-san and rhapsodize may exclude the marathon from the Olympics! A faux pas sort of/ faire une gaf

Care for a history lesson! or shall we rename the competition and leave out the marathon.

Add my bit about boxing - It's full of tactics/skills/strength, it's one on one, It's a gladiator fighting another gladiator and glamorising it just does not work. Joe Bugner (NL) was in a fight in which another boxer died and he continued to enter the ring with his hands in front of his face for the money way past his use by date. Frank Bruno could not fight as well as others despite his strength, he went in the ring for the money again long after he should have retired. Mike Tyson needs no intro - pure fighting machine, loads of angry muscle goes back in the ring when he's not fit enough for the competition.

Lets forget the semantics of defining sport or competition - these guys are not sportsman because they shake hands before they attempt to bludgeon the other guy!

At least be honest and come to terms with the fact that it is a fight not a sport. Fighters and face-offs, while the way it is promoted removes it from sport and makes it a contest between two angry people worked up into a state which means full contact, going for a knock down and don't try to kid me that it has definitive rules that soften it - that's to satisfy people that need to see it but can't stand to see a real fight!

I am against it, It's up to individuals to take part or not... Mad is my opinion, daft at best!

So call me a wimp if you like, or add a cent or two. Better still, show me where the sportsmanship is!

I think the variation of sports works on the basis that so many people can see high quality competition at least once in a life time, You can't see them all anyway due to overlap, just see the ones you want to. It's a hefty event to have to carry as a host country, maybe that makes it pay. I like the idea of purity. Maybe then we just call the Olympics the Decathlon which is more truer to the original concept. Would be great to leave out politics too.

Major team sports generally have their own championships and can be left out of the Olympics. Pie eating can stay out - leave out bull fighting too, unless they allow boxers to join that melee. Boxer v Bull - gloves off of course, lets see if the bull is a good sportsman - (that would be more Roman than Greek I think).

Foot note to amateurs - was it not Tefileo stevenson who could afford not to turn professional living a good life in Cuba, or would he have made it as a professional fighter? Politics may interfere more than we realise, East German participation was government supported. While other countries competitors practised before and after work - maybe an amateur should have a full time job and receive tuition and facilities on merit.

I like to see professional sports dropped in favour of fair amateur competition. Gltiz/glam out - hard work/sweat in

[Guest]

First question

Would you define boxing as sport? I say It's just a fight!

Second question

Which sports should not be considered as sports? Gymnastics is a competition sure, but sport?

Third question

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

First Answer

Well, the ancient Romans defined Gladiator fights as a sport. In fact, it was one of their favorite sports. And that was a fight to the DEATH!

Second Answer

Gymnastics should be a sport. Anything that gets your blood pumping and requires physical activity is a sport.

Third Answer

Why?

[Guest]

Interesting that Itachi-san and rhapsodize may exclude the marathon from the Olympics! A faux pas sort of/ faire une gaf

Care for a history lesson! or shall we rename the competition and leave out the marathon.

I think you COMPLETELY misread our posts. We said to eliminate TEAM sports from Olympics, and ONLY keep competitions like the marathon.

At least be honest and come to terms with the fact that it is a fight not a sport.

What qualities does a fight have that a sport does not? The only thing I can think of you have mentioned is that a fight is out of anger and a sport is not.

Well, first, if the only boxing matches you have seen are ones out of anger, you must not watch a lot of boxing. While some of these ridiculously overhyped heavyweight and/or championship matches are like that, I've never seen an Olympic boxing match with promotion or fighting with anger.

So, if you're arguing that professional high-level boxing is not a sport, I guess I'll agree. But boxing, as the sport is intended, as the sport is played in the Olympics, Golden Gloves, and other amateur tournaments, I don't agree. However clear you think you're making your point, I really can't see what you're seeing.

Better still, show me where the sportsmanship is!

I've seen hugs after matches, interviews where praise is heaped on the winner by the loser, interviews where the winner is humble after victory. Not so much in the ridiculously overhyped professional matches you seem to be SOLELY talking about, but in many lower weight classes bouts (including championships) and in amateur matches.

Foot note to amateurs - was it not Tefileo stevenson who could afford not to turn professional living a good life in Cuba, or would he have made it as a professional fighter? Politics may interfere more than we realise, East German participation was government supported. While other countries competitors practised before and after work - maybe an amateur should have a full time job and receive tuition and facilities on merit.

Completely agree, which is why they opened up the Olympics to professionals, because some countries (East Germany, Cuba, Russia, others) subsized their athletes so they didn't have to work. Now, the Olympics decided to equalize the playing field by including people, while your suggestion is equalizing the playing field by excluding people. Your argument is sound, based on the assumption that a "true" amateur is "worth" more than a professional. I don't accept that assumption, as to me the biggest issue is I want to see the highest athletic performance by individuals possible with an equal playing field.

Why are steriods and other performance enhancing substances banned? My argument, and the only argument in my opinion, is that we need a level playing field, and it's unfair to force people to use drugs and risk their long-term health in order to compete with people who do. But, if you disagreed with that, then you could level the playing field by allowing everyone to use steriods and P.E.S.

Same thing with amateurs/professionals. Which way you limit it is based on your values and priorities, but we can all agree that everyone should be amateurs, or it shouldn't matter at all, which is why the "subsidizing" of amateurs cannot be allowed if we exclude professionals.

[Guest]

ok wimp (LIS), that is what you said to call you. What about Hockey, is it a sport to you? Its teams, points, no judges, meets all your qualifications. Angry fights all the time, and its expected as part of the game, just ask any fan. You think boxing isnt a sport because is barbaric, so is hockey, football, rugby, the list goes on. Ultra sophisticated people like yourself think its beneath you. I tell you what, Im college educated, and I have also spent years fighting, not angry, but for the sport of it. Not only could I beat you in a ring, I could beat you on a chess board.

[Guest]

Some moot points!

ok wimp (LIS), that is what you said to call you. - I said you can and you dids, not you should - I'l get over it!

What about Hockey, is it a sport to you? - yes, there are team sports, one on one sports and there are sports against all commers

Its teams, points, no judges, meets all your qualifications. Angry fights all the time, Not when I played and its expected as part of the game no it's not, just ask any fan.

You think boxing isnt a sport because is barbaric - your word not mine, I said it's a fight, so is hockey, football, rugby,- Played all those sportingly and proud of it the list goes on.

Ultra sophisticated people like yourself think its beneath you. Rubish, i have stedied marshal arts as a disiplin not to fight

I tell you what, Im college educated, and I have also spent years fighting, not angry, but for the sport of it. Not only could I beat you in a ring, I could beat you on a chess board. - Great fighters adon't make great chess players! name one

If it is your point to challenge me -(Not only could I beat you in a ring, I could beat you on a chess board) I don't fight especially on chess boards, and to kick that display into the kerb where it belongs - It takes great strength to be gentle - Do not take meekness as a weakness!

[Guest]

Well, dictionary.com defines sport as:

–noun 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.

1. I would loosely call it a contact sport. There are two sides, a competition, a winner, and a loser, and a referee.

2. Golf, bowling, hunting (or any shooting), fishing (from the above list), figure skating, gymnastics, darts, kayaking, bobsledding and things along those lines. Maybe even track. I think of sports as A vs. B, with one winner and one loser, and a lot of sweat.

3. There is something less satisfying about a professional winning a medal than an amateur.

well if that is the defination of a sport wouldn't a street fight be considered a sport?

[Guest]

well if that is the defination of a sport wouldn't a street fight be considered a sport?

YOU can define what you want to as a sport, if it's to be argumentative then give reasons - Street fighters will probably way it is a fight more! Some of them may think of it as a sport - I don't personally!

Definiton of a winner is one who beats the other contender(s)

[Guest]

YOU can define what you want to as a sport, if it's to be argumentative then give reasons - Street fighters will probably way it is a fight more! Some of them may think of it as a sport - I don't personally!

Definiton of a winner is one who beats the other contender(s)

i dont consider it a sport either... but with that defination, it makes it seem like it could be a sport

[Guest]

1.Why not? There's a referee, rules, competiters

2.Yes, If it's not a sport then what is it?

3.no answer

[akaslickster]

First question

Would you define boxing as sport? I say It's just a fight! It is both a contact sport and fight like dueling, fencing, karate etc.

Second question

Which sports should not be considered as sports? Gymnastics is a competition sure, but sport?

Gymnastics is more like an audition the best show is judged with fewest mistakes. not sporty. Curling is so odd but who am I to allow and not allow. Curling is a wannabe sport?

Third question

Should professionals be excluded from the Olympic games or all competition for that matter? Keep it basic/amateur!

Never!I want the very best from each country involved in whatever competition. So as long as there is no steroids, etc. The person must have been born in the country he or she represents. Is that not fair and square? Why exclude pros,? what did they do to be left out. ? They should have their own option. Edited May 15, 2008 by akaslickster

[Guest]

1.Why not? There's a referee, rules, competiters

2.Yes, If it's not a sport then what is it?

3.no answer

CSG -, To me the Gymnastics are a great display of fitness and it's a great competition (wish I was that fit), but when judging/opinion offering a debatable value is part of the event it reduces the chance of a winner by clear first place such as highest, fastest etc - like scoring a goal not impressing a judge

btw - i see boxing as brutal, encourages rage though it has some level of discipline but it is about knocking the other guy down, granted that it does not encourage finnishing them off- would you want to persuade someone you know and care about to join the fight game?

[Guest]

Never!I want the very best from each country involved in whatever competition. So as long as there is no steroids, etc. The person must have been born in the country he or she represents. Is that not fair and square? Why exclude pros,? what did they do to be left out. ? They should have their own option.

Yep bring on the best but why make it pro - the days of Lasse Viren, David Bedford giving their all, sweat guts and determination all for country and medal not for their pocket. The East Germans assisted good athletes as did the Russians which to me devalues sport as breeding brawn and a lot of athletes in those countries were locked into it for the sake of their families being able to live on less squalid conditions, they get the highest level of facilities and coaching.

I prefer to see no pro sports, not to say that teams should not be sponsored with equipment and safe grounds but paying sportsman huge sums of money does not work for me at all!

[Guest]

CSG -, To me the Gymnastics are a great display of fitness and it's a great competition (wish I was that fit), but when judging/opinion offering a debatable value is part of the event it reduces the chance of a winner by clear first place such as highest, fastest etc - like scoring a goal not impressing a judge

btw - i see boxing as brutal, encourages rage though it has some level of discipline but it is about knocking the other guy down, granted that it does not encourage finnishing them off- would you want to persuade someone you know and care about to join the fight game?

I do have to say, you have a point on boxing, however, my Grandpa was a boxer, and it does invole some skill. I do see wrestling as brutal however. (it's sickining to watch on t.v., they act like enraged monsters) Back to boxing, I would not encourage someone to do it, but there are some people who enjoy boxing and we need to consider it a sport if only for their sake.

You also have a point on Gymnastics, Often I have disagreed with Judges. They should have a set system of judging which is more accurate.

[Guest]

I do see wrestling as brutal however. (it's sickining to watch on t.v., they act like enraged monsters).

Wrestling - Hmm soap opera over dramatised - looks worse than it is. Non brutal and skilled is Turkish wrestling - oiled up and simple less aggressive sport, maybe it's not macho enough to make it far into Europe or US

[Guest]

I do have to say, you have a point on boxing, however, my Grandpa was a boxer, and it does invole some skill. I do see wrestling as brutal however. (it's sickining to watch on t.v., they act like enraged monsters) Back to boxing, I would not encourage someone to do it, but there are some people who enjoy boxing and we need to consider it a sport if only for their sake.

i agree. boxing takes alot of skill to dodge a fist coming at your face

but i really think it does take alot of skill.

And wresteling is fake, they set up the whole thing

[Guest]

i agree. boxing takes alot of skill to dodge a fist coming at your face

but i really think it does take alot of skill.

- yeah it's called training! it's a brutal skill to learn/train for.

And wrestling is fake, they set up the whole thing

- the regular www is but like boxing at the more amateur level it's more skilled, the Turkish wrestling is all skill but is done for sport not international fame, and there is wrestling in the Olympics too, which is a sort of greco-roman or collegiate style, not sure which...

Lets move on to mud wrestling! Got to be worth a gander if it's topless women!

[Guest]

well theonly real (on tv) fighting i've seen is the UFC

[Guest]

My rules are these:

1. Does it take a physical ability that many people do not have to be able to excell at the highest level? (this is why chess is not a sport) - lets hope it never is - great game though and Spasky v fischer was a bit special including posturing, face-offs and tactics. But that's another story!

2. Does it take a mental focus at a high level to either use those abilities, or to plan a strategy? (this is why a game like darts may be borderline ... need a skill only. This is why golf probably IS a sport, because it goes beyond skill to concentration and choice making). To excell at a something at that level which is not a sit down, stand still event (3hrs - 4 hrs) is a sport to me -lot of co-ordination involved - hardest player to defeat id yourself, conquer that and you have a chance at silver-ware of sorts.

3. Is there anything you can do in your sport which significantly can impact how your competitors will do? (this is why bowling and golf may be borderline, as all you can do is put pressure on your opponent by your individual success). - Back to beating yourself, conquering yourself!

4. Is the outcome of your winning or losing based on rules instead of judging (this is why Gymnastics is not a sport to me, nor diving, figure skating or perhaps boxing). - agree totally, judging which is in boxing (was it a hit or a touch) takes away the outright result of 'first past the post'.

Someone else posted tennis not being a sport. I think many one-on-one competitions are sports as long as reason #3 is met. Footraces (marathons) are borderline to me, along with swimming and other timed events, but if you can directly impact your opponents success by how you do, it is a sport to me. - Hmmm Spasky v Fischer (chess), Swimming is super fit, Mark Spitz what a challenger! i saw every race!

My opinion, is that people who are paid to make their living playing a sport can achieve greater and higher levels of their performance than people forced to work for a living and play the sport on the side. I'd rather see the best striving to be the best myself. Me too though that should be as amateurs, rather than affordable players which requires company director decisions - Manchester Utd, They play in England still or the US now?

I do see the other side with the whole "purity" of the sport, but to me, keep that separate. Make the Olympics amateur only? Ok, as long as you realize you aren't seeing the true "best" performers at that sport. And to be honest, I'd be fine with that.

I am sick of the professional team sports players playing the Olympics though.

I think you COMPLETELY misread our posts. We said to eliminate TEAM sports from Olympics, and ONLY keep competitions like the marathon.

Sorry rhapsodize, You were borderline on marathon and itachi said only team sports are pure enough for Olympics so I'm sicking to my point of naming a competition after a sport that would be excluded on itachi-sans requirement and your uncertainty, Track events are sports - though some UK doggoders tried to exclude all competitveness from schools because it is 'bad for children to deal with challenges and competitiveness at an early age' Didnt take away ecxams though, if that doesnt give a kid a hard knock when their course work is above average - well drifting a little, ok, a lot...

What qualities does a fight have that a sport does not? The only thing I can think of you have mentioned is that a fight is out of anger and a sport is not. I said the build up and face off, controlled anger is a gift in a fight - boxing is a fight that has been softnend to make it TV/public compatible/acceptable! (my opinion)

Well, first, if the only boxing matches you have seen are ones out of anger, you must not watch a lot of boxing. - Watched lots of the Olympics in my teens and a have a nephew that trains, but wont fight (he's huge and can give as well as take, we practice some softer martial arts too) While some of these ridiculously overhyped heavyweight and/or championship matches are like that, I've never seen an Olympic boxing match with promotion or fighting with anger. - Some but no more than other competitions, you have me on the ropes a little here rhapsodize, though i have seen and heard the talk in training, it's not all talk!

So, if you're arguing that professional high-level boxing is not a sport, I guess I'll agree. But boxing, as the sport is intended, as the sport is played in the Olympics, Golden Gloves, and other amateur tournaments, I don't agree. - Yes it's somewhat toned down and more controlled, i just think that is not as skillfull or as usefull as other fighting techniques where discipline, self control are the initial requirements. However clear you think you're making your point, I really can't see what you're seeing. Sorry - hope it's getting clearer, it's my opinion and my point is I prefer other forms of contact sport over something more brutal.

I've seen hugs after matches, interviews where praise is heaped on the winner by the loser, - maybe a good sport, and that's why he didnt win, which is my point! A somewhat controlled brutality (most brutal wins)

interviews where the winner is humble after victory - So! that's called hen pecking (senior hen is recognised). Not so much in the ridiculously overhyped professional matches you seem to be SOLELY talking about, but in many lower weight classes bouts (including championships) and in amateur matches.

Completely agree, which is why they opened up the Olympics to professionals, because some countries (East Germany, Cuba, Russia, others) subsized their athletes so they didn't have to work. Now, the Olympics decided to equalize the playing field by including people, while your suggestion is equalizing the playing field by excluding people. Your argument is sound, based on the assumption that a "true" amateur is "worth" more than a professional. I don't accept that assumption, as to me the biggest issue is I want to see the highest athletic performance by individuals possible with an equal playing field.

Re above and below - basically agree, equalise it - but it's harder for some people to make the leap to professional and these highly paid athletes and sports palyers or teams are making the event a fixed price one way or another!

Same thing with amateurs/professionals. Which way you limit it is based on your values and priorities, but we can all agree that everyone should be amateurs, or it shouldn't matter at all, which is why the "subsidizing" of amateurs cannot be allowed if we exclude professionals.

[Guest]

Well, dictionary.com defines sport as: .... it was an opinion requested

1. I would loosely call it a contact sport. There are two sides, a competition, a winner, and a loser, and a referee. Do you do any sport onetruth, or have you, did it include boxing? if not why? - if so why?

2. Golf, bowling, hunting (or any shooting), fishing (from the above list), figure skating, gymnastics, darts, kayaking, bobsledding and things along those lines. Maybe even track. I think of sports as A vs. B, with one winner and one loser, and a lot of sweat. - Hunting as A v B (deer v man), come back to me on that pls!

I like the others some are competitions and some are 'judgemental' for want of a better term (use dictionary,com if you wish) Darts - sport or competition? Same with Fig skating and gymnastics - to me they are great competitions, but no sport involved!

3. There is something less satisfying about a professional winning a medal than an amateur. - I'll take gutsy determination over honed athleticism any day! It is hard to equalise the amateur level, Tennis players are not usually from humble backgrounds and that possibly ca go across the board.

[Guest]

Wrestling - Hmm soap opera over dramatised - looks worse than it is. Non brutal and skilled is Turkish wrestling - oiled up and simple less aggressive sport, maybe it's not macho enough to make it far into Europe or US

yeah, american/european wrestling is revolting and turkish is skilled. ( i'm turkish, so im glad some people know about us even though i'v never wresteled, turkish or otherwise. )