TMM VIII: Tom and Jerry Mafia

[Guest]

Everyone has already confirmed though, and I don't see what plans could have been made. I hate it when phases drag on. We've got very few players, and all of them have abilities, so all the normal reasons for having long phases don't apply.

[plasmid]

Since this is a Trainer's Manual Mafia and most people are learning the ropes, a few things that might help for newbies. Feel free to argue / scream / throw things at me if my conclusions seem off.

The fact that the goodies have a RID kill and the baddies don't (I don't know whether or not Tom does) makes it seem relatively safe to give hints about your role. It's better to keep your role secret if you can because indy wincons often have a RID requirement, but it's not like you're sure to get RID-killed if you hint at your role or out yourself to take away heat from a lynch vote.

Since Tom has a vote manip, the goodies are probably better off if their lynch votes end up being landslides. If the votes are close, then Tom can use vote manipulation to achieve his ends which are probably nefarious.

Day spy is something I've never seen before, but it seems like it could be very valuable to affect the course of lynch votes if someone's getting bandwaggoned. If you can, check back when the day is almost over to see if the day spy revealed something important.

Jerry's redirect looks like it won't be too useful in this game because OOP/OOA has baddies>goodies and block>redirect. That means Meathead's block or redirect will take precedence over Jerry's redirect and would therefore not be affected if Jerry targetted him (I verified this with kristmark1). So the only really useful person for Jerry to target would be Butch (and maybe Tom if his secret ability is a night action with lower precedence than redirect).

For Tuffy, role copy is only used once in the game and then gives you the targetted person's role for the rest of the game. It's up to you whether you want to wait until you have a better idea of who has good abilities before using role copy, or go ahead and use it now semi-randomly so that you can start using an ability right away. IMO, only Jerry's ability seems like it really sucks, so I'd favor going ahead and picking someone randomly.

Kristmark1 told me that a Tom win does not necessarily mean that the goodies or baddies cannot win, so killing baddies should be a higher priority than killing the indy. But we should probably still kill Tom if we find him, because indies often have a clause like "if you primary wincon becomes impossible then you must survive until the end of the game" and that might have been what kristmark was talking about.

And for the baddie roles, your best strategy is to night-kill each other.

[Guest]

I am not sure what you consider a long phase to be. Days and nights are always 24 hours here, except for scum weekends and n1, which can be longer. This phase is just barely over 24 hours and the time was chosen to work for the host.

[tolecnal]

I think plasmid's last point is particularly key, absolutely the best strategy

[Guest]

By the way Role Copy can be affected by redirect, but a block would bounce of and hit a random target.

[Guest]

Night 1 will end at 8pm GMT tomorrow. This is not open for discussion, especially in the main thread.

Thank you,

The "passive" co-host, maurice

[Guest]

That was not really passive, but actually quite hostile.>_>

kristmark, can you pick a different color? I have to highlight your text just to read it, and it really hurts my eyes. It's too light for this white background.

[Guest]

Is that OK?

[plasmid]

Night 1 will end at 8pm GMT tomorrow. This is not open for discussion, especially in the main thread.

Thank you,

The "passive" co-host, maurice

Completely off topic, but would anyone like to take bets on who gets NKed night 1?

[Guest]

Completely off topic, but would anyone like to take bets on who gets NKed night 1?

Well.......if I was a baddie, which I'm not, I'd be betting on you only because post # 27 made my head hurt.... ;)

Seriously though, you have some nice thoughts there, a couple of things I did not pick up on my first read through of the roles.

[MissKitten]

Yeah, my first guess would be you, plasmid, if only because you overanalyze things, which leads to baddie role outing. But this assumes you're a goodie, so.... I don't really know otherwise.

I'm the GRK.

And if you're a goodie, I look forward to working with you! [because I'm a goodie, too.... if you haven't figured that out already..... yeah....]

If you're good, you know what that means.

Also, Sakura: even though everyone's confirmed, N1 is usually when people get some sort of read on who to trust and whatnot. This is also where we get all our false accusations out of the way [i accuse kris of having ulterior motives! ] and, like plasmid [it was plasmid, right?] said, where we start to give out subtle hints. As in: I'm an important goodie! Actually, no, it's usually something more substantial than that.

[Guest]

Yes, that color is much better.

Can't really get much of a handle on who to trust, because nothing has happened yet. We don't know who will be killed, and no one is arguing on who should or shouldn't be lynched.

[mboon]

@Miki: Huh, so that's how it is, you learn something new every game I usually wait until after N1, and I don't usually hint :/

[Hidden G]

The first night is always longer than 24 hours to give everyone time to confirm and get situated. Two or three days is common. And since the end time has already been stated, it would royally screw over those who have already confirmed and made plans based on the given end time.

Nana is right ,and SC please let the host control the game,cz if he had accepted your suggestion(i know,he wouldn't)i would have quited cz i haven't done anything,i was sleeping.

time for us and hosts is a golden rule we must honor it. check the guide on MM(tell me if u want the link)

@plasmid,nice "essay "back there ,u are more suspicious to me now,and please if u can make your posts a bit smaller cz it's better for all of us.

Tuffy ,spy Plasmid,jerry if he doesn't redirect (Plasmid was right Jerry is a bit non usage for goodies)

[Guest]

@Miki: Huh, so that's how it is, you learn something new every game I usually wait until after N1, and I don't usually hint :/

i dont usually speak at all

... i think i shud start saying SOMETHING...

Edited October 2, 2011 by Tralala!

[Hidden G]

Yes, that color is much better.

Can't really get much of a handle on who to trust, because nothing has happened yet. We don't know who will be killed, and no one is arguing on who should or shouldn't be lynched.

i was hoping u would say anything concerning my gift to u .and please stop complaining

btw i'll be going for some time,but be back before the N post in hours

[Hidden G]

i dont usually speak at all

... i think i shud start saying SOMETHING...

u should always have an opinion and a plan of playing(startegy)

[Guest]

G, you shouuldn't say stuff like that. It's not needed, and it can only lead to trouble.O_O

[Hidden G]

getting me NKed ?? by you ?

(can u quote it ? )

[Guest]

u should always have an opinion and a plan of playing(startegy)

PS- i hope that wasnt just a misspelling...

[Hidden G]

oh yes sorry it's a misspelling .

PS ,i really want to know what kind of trouble is SC talking about ? let's see what the baddies have ,or Tom's S.A.

[Guest]

Do you guys want to help me with something. Of course you do.

Can you please post your final actions between 7:00pm and 7:50pm in big bright red text, because I'm tired of people changing their minds.

[MissKitten]

Haha! Yeah, if I can get on, before then, I will. I can't today, but my actions are in my last PM. [but you already knew that! ] And darn! I was hoping you would say something about my accusation! Does this mean you really DO have ulterior motives?

[plasmid]

@plasmid,nice "essay "back there ,u are more suspicious to me now,and please if u can make your posts a bit smaller cz it's better for all of us.

Tuffy ,spy Plasmid,jerry if he doesn't redirect (Plasmid was right Jerry is a bit non usage for goodies)

Hmm, try to look at that from the baddies' perspective so you understand the implications.

If you make it known on the main thread ahead of time who people are going to "spy" during the night (in this case using Tuffy's role copy as a spy but same idea) the baddies will know that if the person being spied is good and will become a confirmed goodie, there will be one less goodie under suspicion during the next day's lynch votes and more chance that a baddie will be lynched. Because of that, if their thinking caps are on, they have an incentive to NK the person being spied if they're a goodie: that would eliminate the person who would otherwise become a confirmed goodie and avoid narrowing down the number of players who are potential baddies during the lynch vote.

So in general it's probably not good to broadcast who is going to get spied (particulary for the spy-ee). But now that I've made this public knowledge, the spy knows that there would be an advantage to not actually target the player mentioned in the main thread. And baddie behavior changes a bit when all this logic is out in the open because they might start WIFOMing: if they don't NK the proposed spy target, then they can use this logic to say that not getting NKed implies that the proposed target was a baddie.

All that aside, my ability seems reasonably useful so Tuffy can go ahead and role copy me just for the ability if he wants. (At least you know I'm not Jerry.)

Edit: lynched an extraneous comma

Edited October 2, 2011 by plasmid

[MissKitten]

Or maybe you're WIFOM-ing too and trying to claim Jerry because you're a baddy! And now Tuffy won't copy you, and so he won't find out you're a baddy, and so you and your baddie friends are safe. Well, safe for now, at least......