[Guest]

I've been on this site for a couple weeks now, and love it. It's great seeing a group of creative thinkers getting together to challenge each other and provide different perspectives on things. I read a thread from moderator "Martini" and I have to offer a different perspective from what he said. I quote him below:

"But please don't post to a thread that has been over for months just to add the same solution that has already been determined. "

Personally, I'm not going to go back into the 850 posts and read all of them! So I might end up posting a thread that was posted 2 years ago, which means it becomes locked. Sure, the link is provided to the old one, but for the sake of new members, doesn't it facilitate more participation by allowing it to remain open for posts? I don't want to comment on something that already has 40 comments, the last one being over a year ago! I say loosen up on that policy, and I hope you allow this thread to remain to see what everyone else has to say. If everyone else thinks otherwise, then I'll ride with the majority. I'm willing to bet more people will share my perspective on this. Thanks, though, for keeping this a great site that provides daily enjoyment to thousands

[Guest]

I might be misunderstanding both yours and martini's arguments, but from my perspective this is what Martini meant:

If you find an old thread that is a puzzle, and you read it, do not add a new post to the thread just to post an answer that has already been decided on. If you see something new that has not been pointed out, then feel free to add a new post, But if there have been 15 posts stating the answer, and it's been a year since anyone last posted, don't add a new post to the thread just to add an answer that has already been stated multiple times...

At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Guest]

I interpret differently given I have already had two locked because I didn't know they had already been posted. They were posted over a year ago, so I did not dig into the archives to find it. My argument is if someone wants to post a new topic, then people like site administrators will recognize it's an old thread, but people like me and what seems to be a LOT of other new members will not have seen it. I'm not going to post something that I know has been posted just for grins, but I'm not going to read all 850 past posts just to see if I'm posting something that hasn't already been posted.

[Guest]

I interpret differently given I have already had two locked because I didn't know they had already been posted. They were posted over a year ago, so I did not dig into the archives to find it. My argument is if someone wants to post a new topic, then people like site administrators will recognize it's an old thread, but people like me and what seems to be a LOT of other new members will not have seen it. I'm not going to post something that I know has been posted just for grins, but I'm not going to read all 850 past posts just to see if I'm posting something that hasn't already been posted.

You can use the search tool. You just use key words separated by '+' sign.

[Guest]

Ah - so myself and everyone else who joins the site should know that, also should have to make the effort to see if it's been posted?? Seems like overkill for something that is supposed to be FUN.

[rookie1ja]

I have pinned this topic and added a poll ... let's see what others think

[Guest]

I have pinned this topic and added a poll ... let's see what others think

I'm new to the site too and think it's great. I've voted "yes" as I think it's interesting to see what people are looking at now, but I also think it would be good if someone recognises a puzzle to post a link to where the puzzle was previously discussed.

[Guest]

I prefer to see the posts of the original - new/copies really are a rehash, if people don't want to read through old posts just add there tuppence/2 cents worth from the OP. It's not always necessary to see what others think/thought or answered - be origianl if you want.

Old subject can be new to those that have just arrived at brainden don't let it become braindenT though

[Guest]

You know it is fun and all to get into the debate over the questions but to what point? I have seen more than a few threads that have been untouched for a year or so. After a while it has the effect of beating a dead horse. Then there are of course the well-known riddles and jokes that have been submitted a thousand times. After a while, something does need to be done to prevent that.

[Guest]

"But please don't post to a thread that has been over for months just to add the same solution that has already been determined. "

Personally, I'm not going to go back into the 850 posts and read all of them!

I think you're misunderstanding Martini's request. He's not talking about making new posts. He's talking about adding replies to very old posts that already have been inactive for a while and already have posted solutions. I think that request is quite reasonable, particularly since many members monitor activity using the View New Posts link. If a thread has so many replies that you don't want to read them all, then you're probably not going to be contributing positively by posting the solution, since it has probably already been posted.

As for making new posts, it doesn't seem like a burdensome request to ask you to do a brief search using the inclusive "+" to see if your puzzle was previously posted. However, if you're a new member, of course you wouldn't know to do that, so nobody is upset when it happens, but it makes perfect sense for the admins (who can more easily identify repeats) to redirect new comments to the old thread by locking the new one and posting a link. This doesn't stop you from participating, and it can actually add to the fun, since this will enable you to read the discussions involving the puzzle that have already taken place. And, if there's more to add (other than just repeating the solution), you can certainly do so.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but I think it's a pretty good system. So even if they seem a bit militant, don't go hating on the admins, cause they make this place a whole lot better than it would be otherwise.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Duh Puck

[grey cells]

I do not agree entirely with largeneal.But it is also true that it is not possible for the newcomers to know about the thread being locked for repeated topics.So I have a suggestion.

SUGGESTION:If it is possible , the admin can identify the newcomers and allow the thread to run.Only for the first time.From the next time the same rule will apply for them.

[Guest]

I don't want to comment on something that already has 40 comments, the last one being over a year ago!

Why not? If you've got an alternate answer that hasn't been though of or a good reason why the given answer is wrong (it happens) then why not post in it? You'd rather the same riddles are re-posted so you can now comment on it because it only has, say, five replies?

You can use the search tool. You just use key words separated by '+' sign.

Ah - so myself and everyone else who joins the site should know that, also should have to make the effort to see if it's been posted?? Seems like overkill for something that is supposed to be FUN.

No, you shouldn't know that. Perhaps I'll revise the current sticky to include guidelines for posting that include performing a search before posting. A message board on riddles can be organized AND fun. The rationale behind many riddles have been explained very well in the existing threads. There would be no good reason to have another thread on The Monty Hall problem just so the rationale behind the solution can be discussed all over again. I see nothing "fun" about that. It also wouldn't be fun if newer riddles that are being posted by our members are being pushed to page 2 so posters can repeat the same answer to a riddle in a thread that's been dead for months or re-post an old one. The lesser of two evils must be chosen and I think keeping this forum fresh is the best choice. We'll see what the majority vote reveals.

[Guest]

You know it is fun and all to get into the debate over the questions but to what point? I have seen more than a few threads that have been untouched for a year or so. After a while it has the effect of beating a dead horse. Then there are of course the well-known riddles and jokes that have been submitted a thousand times. After a while, something does need to be done to prevent that.

Agreed. This site is still fairly new. In the future if someone wants to do a search on a riddle and see what the consensus is on the answer, how lame would it be to see that there are twelve threads on the same riddle to read through? At what point are the admins supposed to put a stop at repeats? Wouldn't it be better to have it so the best rationales for the correct answer can be in one thread and if a new member doesn't have anything new or noteworthy to post, he can just enjoy the thread by reading it? There are always all of the newer threads on the first couple pages on this forum he can participate in, and as has been mentioned, the fact that posting in old threads and re-posting old riddles is discouraged is the reason the first page of the forum is fresh to begin with.

[Guest]

Ah - so myself and everyone else who joins the site should know that, also should have to make the effort to see if it's been posted?? Seems like overkill for something that is supposed to be FUN.

why not have fun looking at other peoples TOPICS not all the posts, besides - It is not new if it's been done and the threads from the topic can reveal unfolding information - not quite a Stephen King novel, but better than fragmentation.

SEARCHING IS PAINFUL WHEN IT'S A MATHAMATIC PROBLEM USING APES IN STEAD OF COWS - BUT ADMIN WILL SPOT IT - LEAVE THEM TO SORT IT AND ENJOY THE SITE - HAVE FUN!

[itachi-san]

I just joined this forum. Locking New Topics that have already been posted is a turn-off to newbies. Do you expect me to read through every past topic? Maybe you should make a new section for people that have been members for under a month or something.

[Guest]

I just joined this forum. Locking New Topics that have already been posted is a turn-off to newbies.

And opening a thread and reading "I have two coins totaling 55¢, one of them is not a nickel" for the twelfth time is a turn-off to those who have been here a while- especially when it bumps actual new riddles down the list.

Do you expect me to read through every past topic?

Did you bother to read the responses in this thread? This has been asked and answered already.

[itachi-san]

Scraff, I read the responses. It's a rhetorical question. I mean to say that 'I won't go through every past riddle to make sure mine are 100% original.'

I agree with what you say about senior members reading the same thing over and over, which is why i proposed a newbie section.

[Guest]

Scraff, I read the responses. It's a rhetorical question. I mean to say that 'I won't go through every past riddle to make sure mine are 100% original.'

I agree with what you say about senior members reading the same thing over and over, which is why i proposed a newbie section.

No one is expecting anyone, newbie or not, to make sure of anything. All that was asked is that one do a quick search before posting to see if the riddle has been posted before. I don't see what benefit there would be newbie section. Newbies are just as capable of performing a simple search as more senior members are. Having a newbie forum would just encourage repeating all previously discussed riddles again and repeating the same discussions as to why correct answers are correct and why incorrect ones are thought to be. And then what to do when the same riddles keep getting posted there? Have a pre-newbie forum? I think it would be best to have newbies be integrated with the posting community and truly have one community. Maybe a better recommendation would be for newbies to get there feet wet by reading old threads and then participating in current ones before starting their own. That's the way it's done in the other boards I belong to. I think too many newbs what to jump in head first and start threads right away. By doing this they may get a thread politely locked and learn the hard way. Is that such a bad thing?

[Guest]

After thinking about it some more, I agree that during my first couple weeks here, I found the restriction on posting to be an irritation, but in time I came to the conclusion that it was a good thing. However, what can be done to avoid this initial reaction? Two ideas ...

1. What if one or more posts could be tagged as "solution posts," either by the OP or an admin? Then, even if you have 20 pages of discussion, you could use a filter to only display accepted solutions. This would make the redirect to an old thread less overwhelming.

2. Rather than locking a duplicate thread, tag it as such (and add a link to the original), but provide a user-level setting to ignore these duplicate threads. The default is to show all threads in the New Posts page, but more advanced members who don't want to see them can choose not to display them.

I don't know how much control the site admin has over the forum programming, though. Both of these approaches would require some pretty serious digging into the guts of the website, I suspect.

[Guest]

Well, like someone else said, the site admins do a great job at keeping this place maintained, also to ensure new things are consistently posted. The idea of a "newbie" section is good because, even after reading these threads, I'm not sure how well the search function works. Does it search title only or does it search by riddle contents? Further, what about the people that change variables within the riddles that will make it different? Like "if John is 30...", what if I come across the same riddle that says "if Mike is 20", but the riddle itself is the same? The admins will see it immediately, and even if an effort was put forth to find it, I will not have found it. I just don't think we're all on the same page - what's good about this type activity is anyone can jump in and be an "important contributor" - I've been doing these puzzles for years, and there are lots of others out there who have been doing them far longer than myself who will discover this page and join and have some really creative things to provide. Is it realistic to ask them as a new member to go back to each of the 870 posts? My FAVORITE solution would be to shift old threads (i.e. not commented on for 8 - 12 months) to an archive, then if a similar thread (to an archived one) is posted, then it's there for the new members to read and comment on and for those who have already seen it to leave it alone. If the similar thread has not made it to the archive, then lock it and provide the link. At the same time, I don't think the admins want to devote a lot of time to screwing with this stuff, so something utilitarian with as little effort as possible

[rookie1ja]

Well, like someone else said, the site admins do a great job at keeping this place maintained, also to ensure new things are consistently posted. The idea of a "newbie" section is good because, even after reading these threads, I'm not sure how well the search function works. No "newbie section" - I agree with Scraff. Does it search title only or does it search by riddle contents? Of course, content is searched as well. Further, what about the people that change variables within the riddles that will make it different? Like "if John is 30...", what if I come across the same riddle that says "if Mike is 20", but the riddle itself is the same? That's why I am here - I have read/skimmed all posts. The admins will see it immediately, and even if an effort was put forth to find it, I will not have found it. Locking is not offending, it's just directing discussion to original post where there are some opinions already posted and you don't have to start from scratch. I just don't think we're all on the same page - what's good about this type activity is anyone can jump in and be an "important contributor" - I've been doing these puzzles for years, and there are lots of others out there who have been doing them far longer than myself who will discover this page and join and have some really creative things to provide. Is it realistic to ask them as a new member to go back to each of the 870 posts? My FAVORITE solution would be to shift old threads (i.e. not commented on for 8 - 12 months) to an archive, then if a similar thread (to an archived one) is posted, then it's there for the new members to read and comment on and for those who have already seen it to leave it alone. If the similar thread has not made it to the archive, then lock it and provide the link. At the same time, I don't think the admins want to devote a lot of time to screwing with this stuff, so something utilitarian with as little effort as possible http://brainden.com/forum/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png' alt=':)'> Right, me and Martini probably wouldn't be able to manage that on our own.

[Guest]

Why not cove this in an initial email pointing out how the site was established/works/runs in bullet points

Investigating the site and reading topics and posts gives a good understanding too.

Which has enabled me to find a lot of intersing puzzles, riddles, etc

When does a new topic become old?

may be that is a kind of paradox phase ?

It will be trippled, quaddippled and then the site really will be a mess.

[Guest]

I think if rookie1ja and Martini are smart enough to create and answer some of the puzzles I've seen on this site, they're smart enough to monitor and maintain the posts so that Newbies still have an opportunity to be apart of the community and verterans don't have to be overloaded with unnecessary posts. From what I've seen they've done a damn good job of it too. I'll trust them to keep running it how they want to run it. Keep up the good work gentlmen.

[unreality]

The Unreality Speaks!

lol jk

wow this topic had like 3 pages already by the time I found it ;D

1) everyone says "admins" but there's only one admin, that would be rookie1ja

now that that pet peeve is over with:

2) I voted "No", cuz what Martini said originally had nothing to do with making new topics, it was about not resurrecting old topics. But still, looking at the OP was suggesting, new repeat puzzles are not a good idea.... like Scraff said, they would build up. Besides, everyone's heard those before. There's probably ten of the same locked ones here. Be original! A search isn't too much to ask, especially if you found the riddle somewhere, but if you made it yourself you shouldn't need to search (hopefully)

[Guest]

I discovered this site when I started using iGoogle as my homepage at work and chose to have Puzzles and Riddles as one of my gadgets. For the first week or two I only attempted or read puzzles that appeared on my homepage. But today is Friday and I have a surprisingly small amount of work to do today so I decided to go directly to the brainden and start opening new posts.

I have already posted in this particular forum stating my opinion that rookie1ja and Martini have done a fantastic job at maintaining this site and should be trusted to continue to do so. After using the site as I have today I can only say that my opinion has been strengthened. If the admins (or admin, as unreality has pointed out) feel the need to close threads, by all means, let them.

I know the original post was more about new threads starting for puzzles that have already been discussed at length but that issued has already been solved by rookie1ja or Martini providing a link to the original thread when they close the new one. As for puzzles that have been replied to and solved 30 times I also agree with Martini that these need to be left alone unless absolutely necessary. In fact, if they want to close those threads as well I think they should and if someone stumbles across a closed thread and needs to add something new, then they can start a new post about the original puzzle.

I'm not usually so long-winded but I feel strongly about the cleanliness and organization of this site and I hope that people will see this is a result of the hard work of the admins, or admin, in monitoring and maintaining posts.

[Guest]

rookie1ja - Do you think you could show the original date of post for puzzles? That way when looking through the list of most recently updated, if a puzzle moves to the top and it has 5,000 views and 30 replies and it was originally posted in april of 2007 you can be reasonably assured the new post does not contribute anything new to the puzzle. But if a puzzle has 1,000 views and 20 replies and was started just 3 days ago, there's a chance it's a good puzzle with a heated debated. just a thought. I'm sure in a few months I'll have seen so many puzzles I'll know which ones are old but for people who are new (which is going to happen a lot as more people discover you on igoogle) it might help.