[gvg]

Alrighty, please answer. If anyone cares, I'm agnostic. =)

No religious bashing please. I just want to see the results.

Edited November 15, 2010 by gvg

[gvg]

Quag: Gotta love the dictionary

And I understand what you're saying (and man, does that defintion match me). It's just hard to let go of old habits, you know? (I was born catholic, and just recently decided to look outside for answers. Much better than being spoon fed ) I don't know if He's there, I just have lived with Him so long that it's hard to imagine life without. I think something's there, and I just hope for a heaven and hell, to make up for the fact that many evil people avoid karma somehow, and many good people suffer (Yep, I believe in karma I've seen many ex. of such things. Exhibit A: I and other classmates studied very hard, and handed in every HW, right before a big test (not a final, it just counted a lot). Day of, I drew a blank (others did too). Completely lost everything. All of a sudden, sure I would fail: Bam. He lets us take it home. I got a 100 =) I'm not trying to brag, just the mot prominent ex. I can think of. But then, Osama is still ok. Karma kinda fails me there, which is why I hope for hell =( Although, he might be a special case... it's kinda not his fault, you know? He was raised that way... he doesn't know any better...

Any way, off the rant =))

And last time I checked, the church hated everything, or almost everything, physics said. So...

[Quag]

GVG

You just keep going the way you are, it is after all a belief, so dont let others tell you what to believe just think about it and whatever you come up with is good for you. If at some point later in life you change your mind that is ok as well. If you change your mind again still ok, time after that is fine too. but after 5 or 6 changes it just means your indecisive, buck up and make a choice and stick with it!

lol just kidding you can always change your belief system.

*Note* about not letting others tell you what to believe doesnt mean you cant/shouldnt listen to others but doesnt mean you have to believe what they say. Listening is always good, espcially with a good cup of hot chocolate and some cookies. I like cookies.

and the church doesnt hate physics they just disagree with certain points. also it depends on what "church" were speaking of.

[Quag]

Oh yeah here is a good definition of deism. I have a small problem with the use of wikipedia as it is prone to error and bias

–noun

1. belief in the existence of a god on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation ( distinguished from theism).

2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

[Guest]

You know, I just thought of an interesting idea: What if 'God' is Science? That is to say, all that we attribute to God (Physical not moral here) is really science? The laws of Physics are God's grand scheme, evolution is his 'creationism.'

I dunno. Would it be right to worship science? (Not saying I do, but it's an interesting idea. Or is what I just described atheism?)

I don't think it makes sense to worship science, because science is not the laws of physics themselves, it's a description of how we think the universe behaves, based on centuries of observation. Science, as I learned in some class long ago, is one of the 4 ways human try to understand and explain our reality. The other 3 are philosophy, religion, and common sense. With science, we observe facts and then make a hypothesis that would explain these facts, and call it "true" until we find a fact that isn't explained by it, then we find another hypothesis and the process continues.

Richard Feynman made a good analogy with chess, if anyone is interested

[EDM]

@gvg and octopuppy: I don't think there's gonna be big trouble....

@ peace: Yeah...I'm catholic.....and PROUD of it!!!

@ everyone else and their discussion.....

Yeah....I guess that's it.....

Edited November 17, 2010 by EDM

[gvg]

Quag: Ah, I only saw the first definition on wiki. But still, I don't think he created the world, persay, more along the lines of created the laws of physics. Something like that sort of thing. He made the most basic, fundamental theory (the unified theory of physics perhaps? That we can't find yet? Because rreally, if you think about it, physics is the science of God; it explains everything, the same way religion attemots to (but, of course, fails miserably =))) and after that, away we went wiothout him. Don't know if that still qualifies as deism.

Interesting, though: if we find enough evidence for the multiverse theory (last I checked, they were working on it to try and disprove the big bang with other looks at the background raditation. No idea after that. Anybody know?) everything will be flipped. Of course, it would be simple to say that a God started all of them, but that would be a very unlikely possibility, especially if (as multiverse theory claims) there a infinite, or a very large number of, universes (at this point, we would be getting into philosophy, wouldn't we? ) So many things to consider, to the point where (here comes agnosticism) I'm damn sure we'll never know. In fact, the only way we'll know if there is a God, or God's, or a force, whatever (For all we know, the olympians are waiting for us =)) is after we die, and find ourselves in a heaven or hell situation. Or if there isn't, and this is all, we'll never know. If reincarnations is true, we'll just be reborn, to once again wonder, and we still won't know. And I hate that, but it's true (and also very humbling, no?). Human knowledge is limited (See, I just matched the agnostic definition.). That's why when I talk about this stuff, I talk in if's, and never worry too much. I'll stick with what I'm very sure is true, good ol' Karma.

And I was talking about my old church, Catholic. Look in history, and even nowadays. Stephen Hawking was informed by the Pope to not talk about the Big Bang, since, after all, it's God's big solo (of course, Hawking was having a show on it right after that ). That's what i mean. And others too, of course.

And I, too, enjoy cookies. Especially big, soft, chewy chocolate chip cookies. Right out of the oven. YUM.

Arch: Huh. I always thought that philosophy was a science. So much for that.

And that video did do a great job, without being too cheesy. =)

EDM: I hope not

Edited November 17, 2010 by gvg

[Quag]

EDM you should be proud, if you were ashamed it would mean you didnt really believe your beliefs (weird sentence but you get my drift i hope)

GVG multiverse or infinite # of unis doesnt have any effect on god(s) existence(s) if one can be made why not all, it is a pretty unimagible task either way, then again if no god(s) exisists then i dont see any argument against multiverse on that level either.

Philosphers may think it is a science but most actual scientists dont. philosphy thinks about things but neve actually proves or disproves just thinks science tries to prove or disprove

As for limit on knowlege heres one for ya

There is a limit to human intelligence but no limit on human stupidity

we all do something stupid sometimes but very few of us do anything brilliant.

Yes as well as being an agnostic I am also a cynic they seem to go hand in hand.

[gvg]

Very true Quag. VERY TRUE. There really is no limit to human stupidity. =)

BTW, what exactly is a scientific Christian? I've heard the term mentioned, but I don't exactly know what it is. Is it like a theitic evolutionist?

[peace*out]

@gvg and octopuppy: I don't think there's gonna be big trouble....

@ peace: Yeah...I'm catholic.....and PROUD of it!!!

@ everyone else and their discussion.....

Yeah....I guess that's it.....

Good! you shoudl I respect those who believe what they believe more than those who dont believe what they believe...wait, what?

But that's good - dont think because im agnostic/athiest that i disrespect those who arent...HAH!

EDM you should be proud, if you were ashamed it would mean you didnt really believe your beliefs (weird sentence but you get my drift i hope)

^^glad im not the only one making up confusing sentences but this is what i mean...

Very true Quag. VERY TRUE. There really is no limit to human stupidity. =)

BTW, what exactly is a scientific Christian? I've heard the term mentioned, but I don't exactly know what it is. Is it like a theitic evolutionist?

Agree with the first sentence, and i *think* (key word: THINK) the lower sentence is someone who believes in god (and if Christian, Jesus), but agrees with the findings of science...like my mom dad and sister are christians, but believe in evolution...99% sure on my dad, but i just asked my mom and sis.

***and the best part is after she answered, my mom looked up and me and goes "What are you working on!?" then i said brainden, and she nodded and returned to her work.

[gvg]

Peace: Thanks, I wasn't really sure. And that is pretty funny; is she really used to you doing it? My parents aren't entirely sure what this site is about, because all I told them is that it is riddles.

[Quag]

Well discussing religion and the mysteries of the universe is kinda like discussing riddles.

On a side note for some strange reason i cant seem to put in spoilers here at my work computer. Yes i use brainden at work, but not when im actually working. Kinda sucks when i think i have the answer to a riddle but cant post and have to read other peoples spoilers, then invariable discover i was wrong anyway

[peace*out]

Peace: Thanks, I wasn't really sure. And that is pretty funny; is she really used to you doing it? My parents aren't entirely sure what this site is about, because all I told them is that it is riddles.

I described it as a forum of nerds. Its basicly people doing or making riddles for fun, whether they be word riddles or logic/math ones, and people...discussing stuff. Religion is a *favorite* here - probably why EDM said that. I know Izzy gets a little...excited about religion discussions. on the Christianity topic, look at post #2 or #3...or around there...Izzy immediatly says she is going to argue against them. And its partly because as a forum that encourages discussion, we talk about why we believe what we believe (or in Izzy's case, she talks about why she's right ). It's one of those things where we respect each others opinions, but still firmly believe what we want to, in a mini war...hence EDM's smiley (i think). Im not 100% sure, but that's what I think.

Basicly, this is a forum for people who like to think. There yah go.

Well discussing religion and the mysteries of the universe is kinda like discussing riddles.

On a side note for some strange reason i cant seem to put in spoilers here at my work computer. Yes i use brainden at work, but not when im actually working. Kinda sucks when i think i have the answer to a riddle but cant post and have to read other peoples spoilers, then invariable discover i was wrong anyway

agree...

that sucks. Is there a spoiler button, or does it just not work?

[EDM]

It's one of those things where we respect each others opinions, but still firmly believe what we want to, in a mini war...hence EDM's smiley (i think). Im not 100% sure, but that's what I think.

Well.....atleast someone understands me...

But about the scientific christian.....

Well....as far as I know.....God creating earth is explained through evolution, i.e. God created evolution......it's a lot easier to say that....

I know that science has been able to figure out a lot of the workings of the Universe (and hence came up with names like 'gravity', 'evolution', 'atoms', etc...). But maybe this is one way of understanding how wonderful God made life....

*Atleast....that's what we could believe....

*oops....I discussed.....time to zip it.....

Edited November 19, 2010 by EDM

[gvg]

Ah... Theistic evolutionist. one of the first things i looked at when I decided to see what else there was. Definitely more rational than creationism, no? =)

I remember one time in my religion class (HATED IT. It was awful) some of the students and my teacher (My first Fundamemtalist...) were laughing. About how ridiculous evolution was! About how stupid it was to think that God didn't directly create everything.

Forgive me all for saying this, but I laughed my self... at their stupidiity

I found out later that my teacher was also congratulating one of my fellow hypnotees... I'm sorry, classmates... because he argued with his science teacher FOR creationism.

Reminds me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbZKUNvmsCU

Don't remember where I first saw this, and it saddens me everytime. They teach creationism as a scientific concept in this school. And the teacher makes it sound like evolution is stupid.

No seperation of Church and State huh?

BTW: Love the guy at the end. What a dolt.

Edited November 20, 2010 by gvg

[Guest]

It's one of those things where we respect each others opinions, but still firmly believe what we want to, in a mini war...hence EDM's smiley (i think)...Basicly, this is a forum for people who like to think. There yah go.

Pretty neatly sums up why I like Brainden. Nicely put.

Reminds me: ...

Don't remember where I first saw this, and it saddens me everytime. They teach creationism as a scientific concept in this school. And the teacher makes it sound like evolution is stupid.

No seperation of Church and State huh?

BTW: Love the guy at the end. What a dolt.

You should really put a warning on that: "May cause severe forehead-slapping".:duh::duh::duh:

[gvg]

I will remember for next time =)