[peace*out]

To not get "off topic" in the other thread...

...Drugs can actually be very beneficial. Lemme know if you want to discuss it haha.

For starters: I know they can relive you from pain, but i'm not trying to talk about advil. I'm talking meth, crack, you - the stuff.

I have a friend who use to do drugs, and even he says not to.

hmmmmm...so anyways, here's a new topic that may be widely argued...

[unreality]

Don't take amphetamines on a regular basis, even if your doctor prescribes them. As has been said before, they are good (and even, very helpful) on occasion but they definitely make you into a different person. It all comes down to the definition of mental disorder. Is ADHD really a mental disorder that needs "fixing" even if fixing it makes you a completely different person? I guess if the person with it wants to change and be "less zany", it should be up to them, but keep in mind it could be things like zaniness that make you who you are. There's no need to conform to what society classifies as normal intelligence unless you truly believe your ability to concentrate and operate and live is severely affected without the medication...

[unreality]

Actually, reading the rest of the thread provides the necessary context for this post. He made two typos:

"In an idea[l] world we would make them all [legal]..."

That's what he meant to say. What you have doesn't make sense even in the context of the rest of the post. Unreality is a strong supporter of drug legalization, so I'm pretty sure it was just a typo.

The first was a typo (I meant ideal not idea) but the second wasn't a typo, I did mean to say 'illegal', but it was meant as sort of tongue-in-cheek, i.e., a ludicrous possibility. I didn't mean a government should make them illegal (you know how against governments meddling in personal health I am. Despite my dislike of McDonald's and the health risk it poses I would still elect to keep it legal. The fine line, and only reason, for drug illegalization is not that it hurts you but could have the potential to hurt others.), I just meant in an ideal world nobody would have the curiosity or desire to use drugs but that was what I meant as tongue-in-cheek since such a world is ludicrous. Escapism is built into our nature, whether it be by video games, books, movies, substances, love, virtual reality, or more likely a hodgepodge of all of the above. As UtF said, nobody should be threatened by a vast group of individuals with force or incarceration for that desire, even if it may be psychologically or even physically unhealthy. Moreover, chemicals abound constantly. Our brain is a cocktail of drugs, hormones and self-produced psychoactive substances constantly causing neurotransmitter releases & mood changes. We rotate through a complex series of primal states of varying "sobriety" every single day. Anyone that likes to "stay sober" has never gotten mad, had a dream, drank coffee, fell in love, or smelled a strong smell of chocolate cookies that reminded them of their childhood in a sudden rushing of warm memories. At a certain point you have to stop fighting the unknown and realize that for all of human (and many animal's) history, altering our own minds has been an important catalyst for discoveries, but yes, also tragedies. There is good and bad to everything, some substances more than others. It's all a matter of detail, care, health, and using one's best judgment after thorough research and thought.

[peace*out]

I just want to update you all on my life that no one really cares about. oh well.

WE WON THE DEBATE! :D

but to keep this on topic, i was the first argument and this is what i said (yes i know its not gramatically correct a lot - i fixed it while reading, but oh well):

Marijuana is a drug with many health benefits, and very few unwanted side effects. While many negative stigmas are attached to the drug, Marijuana is quite beneficial as a health aid, and does not cause much, if any, harm to the user.

Lester Grinspoon, MD, said that “There is very little evidence that smoking marijuana as a means of taking it represents a significant health risk.” He went on to note that there have been no cases of lung cancer that were caused by smoking marijuana. The Guardian, a UK newspaper reported in an article that Marijuana was “not toxic to humans.” Along with not being toxic, Marijuana is not a physically addicting drug. Both Colin Blakemore, PhD and Leslie Iversen, PhD say that, “there is scant evidence that [marijuana] carries a risk of true addiction. Unlike cigarette smokers, most users do not take the drug on a daily basis and usually abandon it in their twenties and thirties.” This is different from legal substances today, like nicotine, found in cigarettes, and alcohol. Three PhDs listed 6 substances in the order of addictiveness. Out of Nictotine, Heroin, Cocaine, Alcohol, Caffeine and Marijuana, Marijuana was last EVERY TIME, even listed as less addicting then Caffine, a substance used everyday by many people.

Even though there are particles, tar, and other toxins that could be absorbed by smoking marijuana, a Vaporizer removes all of these harmful effects. Along with abolishing all of those health effects, using the vaporizer means that there is no smoke what-so-ever, meaning that no one would be effected by second-hand-smoke.

Marijuana is also a drug with many different health benefits, which is why it had been used for thousands of years. Marijuana provides relief from pain, a feeling that is often a result of illnesses or hospital procedures. A study done by Dr. Daniel Arams shows that marijuana was capable of reducing daily pain by 34%. Taking marijuana would allow many people relief from pain, and would result in better sleep quality. Studies show that marijuana also reduces nausea more than any other drug that was tested alongside it. This is very good for people with cancer, who are getting chemotherapy. Another side effect of chemo is loss of appetite, which marijuana also deals with by stimulates the appetite (around 50%) and, when tested on mice, increases the intake by about 22%.

Another benefit of Marijuana is that it helps with the side effects of Multiple Sclerosis and spinal cord injuries. Another study was done on the effects of marijuana relating to epilepsy. This study showed that marijuana is a powerful anticonvulsant, and one that would be effective in treating seizures. When tested in relation to Torette’s syndrome, marijuana reduced “tics.”

Studies also show that not only does marijuana not impair cognitive functions (shown in a study from John Hopkins University), but using marijuana actually INCREASES the brain’s ability to learn and function, as shown by a study done in April, 2004. Together, these facts show that Marijuana, while portrayed as a health risk, is actually a very helpful drug that could be used to help humanity.

[unreality]

I agree with all of the above except for "marijuana actually INCREASES the brain’s ability to learn and function"

[Izzy]

So if we had an ideal world (i.e. very few people smoked marijuana)..

This world is "ideal" how, exactly? Unreality, this is directed at you as well.

@Peace: I'm going to echo what a few other people have said, but don't take amphetamines on a regular basis. Eventually, you won't be able to function as well as you were accustomed to off of them, and you risk giving yourself amphetamine induced psychosis, which is essentially schizophrenia. Parents have a tendency to over medicate their children, and a lot of doctors go with it. If you find your ADHD is a serious problem (you were diagnosed rather late, so I doubt it was *that* serious), increase your intake of vitamins and omegas especially. Do some yoga or daily concentration exercises. Use the pills only when you really have to, and hell, sell 'em if you want.

Lol.. marijuana. It increases the brains ability to put up with meaingless s'hite while on it (homework, laundry, etc.), but there's definitely a agree of functionality that's lacking.

[peace*out]

This world is "ideal" how, exactly? Unreality, this is directed at you as well.

@Peace: I'm going to echo what a few other people have said, but don't take amphetamines on a regular basis. Eventually, you won't be able to function as well as you were accustomed to off of them, and you risk giving yourself amphetamine induced psychosis, which is essentially schizophrenia. Parents have a tendency to over medicate their children, and a lot of doctors go with it. If you find your ADHD is a serious problem (you were diagnosed rather late, so I doubt it was *that* serious), increase your intake of vitamins and omegas especially. Do some yoga or daily concentration exercises. Use the pills only when you really have to, and hell, sell 'em if you want.

Lol.. marijuana. It increases the brains ability to put up with meaingless s'hite while on it (homework, laundry, etc.), but there's definitely a agree of functionality that's lacking.

im not. i dont think ive taken them in over a week. my parents dont understand why, and now i have facts, i can tell them (well, izzy facts, but isnt that enough?). I know my room neighbor has ADD and takes them constantly, so she cant focus without them anymore.

ahh yes...but as im on the side that supported legalizing it, i wouldnt want to put THAT in there!

glad your back..for now. *hugs*

[Guest]

I agree with all of the above except for "marijuana actually INCREASES the brain’s ability to learn and function"

Lol.. marijuana. It increases the brains ability to put up with meaingless s'hite while on it (homework, laundry, etc.), but there's definitely a agree of functionality that's lacking.

ahh yes...but as im on the side that supported legalizing it, i wouldnt want to put THAT in there!

Well, it's possible that it's dependent on the quantity (though I have to admit, I don't have any experience in the matter). Kind of like this.

If the answer weren't 42, I would say that it's xkcd.

[unreality]

This world is "ideal" how, exactly? Unreality, this is directed at you as well.

Don't get me wrong, cannabis is a great plant. We use hemp for everything (and used to use much more before prohibition) and THC is a pretty rad chemical. But if everyone was high all the time I doubt the world would function very well We'd probably eat up all the food supplies within the first week

@Peace: I'm going to echo what a few other people have said, but don't take amphetamines on a regular basis. Eventually, you won't be able to function as well as you were accustomed to off of them, and you risk giving yourself amphetamine induced psychosis, which is essentially schizophrenia. Parents have a tendency to over medicate their children, and a lot of doctors go with it. If you find your ADHD is a serious problem (you were diagnosed rather late, so I doubt it was *that* serious), increase your intake of vitamins and omegas especially. Do some yoga or daily concentration exercises. Use the pills only when you really have to, and hell, sell 'em if you want.

Well, don't sell them haha, but otherwise listen to Izzy. Don't take the pills regularly, even if your doctor has convinced your parents it's best for you. Regular amphetamine use can cause you all kinds of problems later.

Lol.. marijuana. It increases the brains ability to put up with meaingless s'hite while on it (homework, laundry, etc.), but there's definitely a agree of functionality that's lacking.

Well, it's possible that it's dependent on the quantity (though I have to admit, I don't have any experience in the matter). Kind of like this.

Yeah a very small dose is generally helpful. But these things are pretty hard to establish and research, especially with the current legal status. As far as I know, knowledge hasn't been outlawed by the government (yet...lol), but whereas ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power, and we should do more and more research so that we're not guessing anymore. That's another reason the legal system is completely f*cked when it comes to this.

edit: another issue being that in a society where alcohol is the drug of choice, all other substances are as assumed to be as intoxicating as alcohol is (far from the truth, alcohol is one of the most severely impairing) which is another reason for the kind of paranoia and religious conservatism over the situation. But I digress... peace*out already won her debate

Edited May 25, 2011 by unreality

[Izzy]

*wavehugs Peace*

Well, it's possible that it's dependent on the quantity (though I have to admit, I don't have any experience in the matter). Kind of like this.

Hahaha... I swear to xkcd, I am only good (er, decent) at programming under some degree of intoxication. Unreality was trying to teach me to program for my '09 New Year's Resolution, and I'd screw up all the loops, math, and code in general when I was actually trying. +substances, and I wasn't so bad anymore.

I can't remember if the same holds true for calculus*.

..This thread is making me wish I didn't have anymore exams this week.

*In approximately a week, I like be enjoying a summer of math, drugs, life, and massages. asfdkskladfjaklsjdfaksljdflkajdk

On a serious note... To an extent, I do regret a lot of my drug use. I can't tell if I have a thyroid problem (which is a possibility, because both my mom and aunt and had issues with that), but I've been really lethargic, and for lack of a better word, DUMB lately. I'd rather blame my body than the booze and smokes, but meh, let's be realistic.

I went from all A's and a 4.8 GPA to... well, not sure yet, but here are the prospected grades:

Phys - A or B (rather than confirmed A, like it should be)

Eng - A

French - A, or more likely, B

APWH - lowwwww B

Math - A or B (probably A, but we all failed a proofs test >_>)

Stat - C or D

Chem - B

That's like.. maybe a 3.8-4.2? =/

Not to sound like I'm demonizing drugs, but..

Alcohol makes you dumb.

Weed makes you lazy.

Amphetamines make you think there's always an easy alternative.

Combine usage of the three over several weeks, and I think you're f'ucked. =/ Goodbye MIT, lol. (Kidding. I'm still getting in. I'll cure cancer or do something equally rad.)

Edited May 25, 2011 by Izzy

[peace*out]

*wavehugs Peace*

Hahaha... I swear to xkcd, I am only good (er, decent) at programming under some degree of intoxication. Unreality was trying to teach me to program for my '09 New Year's Resolution, and I'd screw up all the loops, math, and code in general when I was actually trying. +substances, and I wasn't so bad anymore.

I can't remember if the same holds true for calculus*.

..This thread is making me wish I didn't have anymore exams this week.

*In approximately a week, I like be enjoying a summer of math, drugs, life, and massages. asfdkskladfjaklsjdfaksljdflkajdk

On a serious note... To an extent, I do regret a lot of my drug use. I can't tell if I have a thyroid problem (which is a possibility, because both my mom and aunt and had issues with that), but I've been really lethargic, and for lack of a better word, DUMB lately. I'd rather blame my body than the booze and smokes, but meh, let's be realistic.

I went from all A's and a 4.8 GPA to... well, not sure yet, but here are the prospected grades:

Phys - A or B (rather than confirmed A, like it should be)

Eng - A

French - A, or more likely, B

APWH - lowwwww B

Math - A or B (probably A, but we all failed a proofs test >_>)

Stat - C or D

Chem - B

That's like.. maybe a 3.8-4.2? =/

Not to sound like I'm demonizing drugs, but..

Alcohol makes you dumb.

Weed makes you lazy.

Amphetamines make you think there's always an easy alternative.

Combine usage of the three over several weeks, and I think you're f'ucked. =/ Goodbye MIT, lol. (Kidding. I'm still getting in. I'll cure cancer or do something equally rad.)

...i WISH i had your grades...

my pre exam grade for physics is an 89, but thats all i know so far.

Just curious: if you speculate that drugs and other stuff does this, and you say it makes you dump, lazy, and...lazy again i guess, why do you do it? because of the high?

ETA: izzy, ive also been noticing ive been saying "meh" a lot. did you used to do htat? cause i got it from someone...

Edited May 25, 2011 by peace*out

[Izzy]

Just curious: if you speculate that drugs and other stuff does this, and you say it makes you dump, lazy, and...lazy again i guess, why do you do it? because of the high?

Because life goes on. It took me a while to come to terms with that. Whether I go to MIT

or BU, I have little doubt I will be unhappy with my future. With this in mind, I have no problem with sacrificing academic intelligence to be more insightful in the fields of perception, sentimentality, aesthetics, and... almost everything else. I think that an altered state of consciousness is as essential and worthwhile experience in life as the random state of awareness you were born with. Aldous Huxley wrote a philosophical autobiography of sorts on his experience with the hallucinogenic drug mescalin. In it, he talks about the Mind at Large, where

Each person is at each moment capable of remembering all that has ever happened to him and of perceiving everything that is happening everywhere in the universe. The function of the brain and nervous system is to protect us from being overwhelmed and confused by this mass of largely useless and irrelevant knowledge, by shutting out most of what we should otherwise perceive or remember at any moment, and leaving only that very small and special selection which is likely to be practically useful. According to such a theory, each one of us is potentially Mind at Large.

He talks about how evolution has favored a sort of "reducing valve" that filters out most things nonessential to survival. A lot of drugs temporarily remove this valve, and let the tripper experience a lot more than on is accustomed to, like the texture and intricate weaving of the wrinkles in your pants and the angles different objects in space make in relation to one another. He eventually examines some paintings, by Vermeer specifically, and notices that all these peculiarities that go unnoticed by the daily examiner of life are present in his work. The theory is that the genius notices all these things all the time, from musicians to scientists. Drug use, then, is a way for us to experience life the way other people do: by letting more get through the metaphorical reducing valve limiting our experience.

Or maybe I'm just trying to justify bad decisions to myself. I think it's working, though.

I am a known meh-er.

[unreality]

Have you stopped to think that you're just scapegoating the grades on drug use when (a) the classes are getting harder as you get older, and (b) typical end-of-the-year apathy?

But as I recommended weeks ago, you should've staved off the hedonism until the summer :excl: But don't give up so easily. You have more time to reclaim your academic record

[Izzy]

I thought of that, but I did way more drugs first semester, and I had all A's, aside from history. Classes are of equal difficulty, but yeah, I do tend to get lazy near the end of the year. I've gotten the "I hate giving smart kids mediocre grades" so many times this week. >_>

[peace*out]

the news reporting what everyone knows:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

[unreality]

"The US and Mexican governments have rejected the findings as misguided." gahhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:

[Guest]

"The US and Mexican governments have rejected the findings as misguided." gahhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:

In large part because American politics are still driven by Puritanical/Victorian "Christian" mores. Hence the reason that I still think that religion drives politics.

[peace*out]

"The commission is especially critical of the US, saying it must abandon anti-crime approaches to drug policy and adopt strategies rooted in healthcare and human rights."

maybe, just maybe, the us should listen to logic when its hitting them in the face. just maybe.

"The office of White House drug tsar Gil Kerlikowske rejected the panel's recommendations. "Drug addiction is a disease that can be successfully prevented and treated," said a spokesman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy."

[Izzy]

Druggggggggsss

haha

[unreality]

Druggggggggsss

haha

that seems to be the conclusion...

The war on drugs, though, is a useful place to take the conversation, though undoubtedly it would involve rehashing how much of a failure it has been, unless we have dissenters to that opinion, which would be a fresh intake onto the topic?

Edited June 4, 2011 by unreality

[Izzy]

Eh, I would think that only three kinds of people would approve of the drug war. Drug dealers, understandably, who enjoy profiting from the distribution of illicit substances. Dumb people, who are pretentiously self-righteous in their ways and want a clean country, as God undoubtedly intended. And, of course, the politicians who want into office and play the card from the former category.

Hopefully, this site doesn't attract any of those types.

Lol at your stream of smilies. "Realization! Am I sure? Yes, and that's shocking, Izzy! Wait.. Kidding. I WUB dwugs. Hahahaha (high). Sad come down. So, avoid it, redosing, entering the state.

VERY NAUGHTY, SIR.

[Guest]

This article on a new "Drug Testing for Welfare" law in Florida should make Izzy and UtF really "happy."

[unreality]

This article on a new "Drug Testing for Welfare" law in Florida should make Izzy and UtF really "happy."

Welfare isn't just cash money right? it has to be used toward food and such. And everyone needs to eat. It's not fueling a drug habit (unless in a roundabout way because now they have more of their own money to spend on drugs but the whole point is that they don't have much of that anyway. They need the help they can get from the state until they get back on their feet. The ironic thing is that most of these people are alcoholics, not other drugs)

[Izzy]

This article on a new "Drug Testing for Welfare" law in Florida should make Izzy and UtF really "happy."

Eugh. I was explaining why Rick Scott was a terrible governor to GM last night. This was one of my (many) reasons.

He thinks he owes it to the tax payers to make sure their money isn't funding drug habits, but doesn't realize that he's wasting more of their money, because he has to reimburse every negative test.

... Idiot.

He sold Soltantic, though, to implement this law, so maybe healthcare will improve.

(I share a state with UtF?)

[Guest]

Eugh. I was explaining why Rick Scott was a terrible governor to GM last night. This was one of my (many) reasons.

He thinks he owes it to the tax payers to make sure their money isn't funding drug habits, but doesn't realize that he's wasting more of their money, because he has to reimburse every negative test.

... Idiot.

He sold Soltantic, though, to implement this law, so maybe healthcare will improve.

(I share a state with UtF?)

Well, it's the state taking money for "Welfare." That was the part directed toward UtF, while the drug aspect was directed at you.

There's no accident. I'm sure the companies that will oversee the drug testing contribute to the Rick Scott reelection fund on a regular basis.

[Izzy]

Hah, I lol at UtF and I continually agreeing on things for completely different reasons.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Izzy