Izzy

Explanations for facts should be facts as well. You don't have to agree. *shrugs* That's your choice.

I realize this was directed at UR, but I believe I can answer. (At least for myself.) My (non)belief is based entirely on facts that I've read in books and discovered online. The way I see it is like this (imagine it as a timeline): 1) Positive energy existed. (This is the only 'gap' in my argument, but I'll get to that.) 2) Enough of said energy accumulated in a very small amount of space, causing this energy to be extremely condensed, and yeah, Big Bang. Protons, neutrons, quarks, etc. went flying everywhere, and different sorts were attracted to each other through gravity, eventually creating the elements. 3) Elements, mainly hydrogen and carbon formed a sun, which was at least ten times bigger than the sun we orbit. 4) Eventually this sun "died", exploding into a supernova, and formed a new sun and the planets. (This has happened at least 1023 times independently, so, by pure probability, a planet in the "Goldilocks Zone" like Earth was bound to form.) 5) First you get very basic single-celled organisms, the kind that reproduce a-sexually, eventually you get less basic lifeforms, then somewhat complicated ones, and viola, eventually we have us awesome and complex humans. Okay, so all of that fits, assuming we can figure out how the initial energy came about. Honestly, I don't know. I do know that all the energy in the universe cancels out exactly to 0, so however it did happen obeys the laws of the universe, because it was really neither created or destroyed. But I don't need to know where that energy came from to abandon my belief in god. After all, the Bible, which should never have had to be revised assuming it came from a supreme being that knew past, present, and future, said god created the Earth. I know how the Earth was formed, some god did not do it. It was also claimed that we, the mighty, amazing, and apparently important mankind, we chosen as the favorite among god's creatures and put here. Er, no, sorry. We evolved from apes. I hate to sound depressing here, but we're not important, and there is no profound reason to our being here. It just happened like that, and some people, with good reason, can't/won't accept it. Which is why fun places like heaven and paradise were created, to get past that fear of dying. I love the concept, man I don't want to die, but it's nothing more than some silly story like the ones people tell their kids about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. But yeah, back to the gap. God really is a "God of the Gaps", as Victor Stenger put it. The more science advances, the smaller the gaps become, and the less places God has to retreat to. An example of this was during the pre-heliocentric times, when the earth was still flat and heaven was just above the clouds. ... Do you see the problem here? We will eventually get to the point where we do know everything (..some day), and even if god did exist (he doesn't) we would have no need for him. Because life as we know it could have (and probably has on other planets) arisen naturally whether a god was there to kick things off or not. Oh, one more thing. This is directed at any theist. Why is it that none of you have been able to come up with any valid point justifying the existence of god?

Bah, gtg, will reply to this when I get home. Also, yay, UR is coming.

We confused Kat again. >_> Yeah, but you don't have to worry about that from what I can tell. You just need to be able to figure out how many neutrons and protons are in the isotope, right?

Maybe not, but I think we can conclude that, without any reasonable doubt, I'm right. I mean, honestly?

Facts generally should not become matters of opinion. They should be stated in ways where they cannot be misinterpreted, and they should have, 5dollers, SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEM. I see you've somewhat met the first part of my criteria, but part two really is more important. Go do your research, find some interesting, persuading stuff, and I'll be here waiting. ..If we're going to take a theological approach, does this mean we get to exchange bible verses? =D?

Discussion or debate? Philosophy is awesome, but for your theories to have a solid standing in the empirical world, I think your framework needs to begin off properly. For starters, your facts aren't fact at all. You say you're sure, yet "fact" two has a question mark at the end. Quotes are annoying, so his statements are in red while my responses are in purple. 1) We only use a certain amount of percentage of our brain. Wrong. It totally doesn't even make sense when you think about it. I mean, how would we even have evolved a brain that we don't use? 2) Our brain functioning consists of neurons moving between nerve endings, correct? Wrong again. Chemical reactions in your body (hormones and stuff) create electrical signals, which cause neurons to interact. 3) Before we came to this earth, we where spirits, (like a glove, hand is the spirit, glove is the body, body can't move without the spirit) when we die our spirits leave. Don't argue, its fact. I'm sorry, but what? I would have probably left this topic alone if not for the "don't argue, it's fact" statement right there. Spirits, along with your god, if they existed, would have been detected a long time ago. Come back with some evidence, present it to me in terms that make sense and are falsifiable, and I'll consider it. Mind, spirits and god are considered highly extraordinary claims, so I expect your evidence to be highly extraordinary. Until you, or someone else, has managed that, this is in NO WAY a fact. 4) Our body is controlled by the nerves which is controlled by the brain. Umm, yeah, kinda. Your statements 2 and 4 go in circles. You say that the brain function by neurons sending signals, yet the brain causes the neurons to send signals.. Your sort of right, but go back and reread my answer to number 2. At least this wasn't fact numero 5... What is controlling the brain and telling it to fire those neurons and how? Natural chemical reactions occurring in your body. We don't control our brain, we are our brain. The brain controls the body it inhabits. You can think anything you like, but that's only a result from, again, chemicals interacting and letting you think that way. Your body has limits, and unfortunately humans haven't evolved in a way that provides us with wings. However, feel free to test your hypothesis if you like. I for one would be interested in the outcome. Oh, and I'm pretty sure some biologist can come around and explain the brain thing much better and more clearly than I can. *pokes Andromeda.*

Okay, but still. Lookit, I made Kat unconfused.

Kat, atomic mass = protons plus neutrons, with different amounts of neutrons creating different isotopes. Relative atomic mass = the average of all the isotopes, done a certain way, and I'm pretty sure this is what's written on the Periodic Table. Like,the atomic mass of chlorine is 35, 36 or 37, but the relative atomic mass is 35.4532. Have I redeemed myself?

You need to have 8 neutrons. Because since electrons weigh virtually nothing, protons + neutrons = atomic mass.

Well, there you go then. Listen to Romulus, as he's probably more qualified than I am in chemistry, and seems to know what he's talking about. I vaguely remember this stuff, and obviously not as good as I thought I did. >_>

Umm.. I don't think the atomic mass is the protons plus the neutrons? And if it is, that's why isotopes have different masses? atomic mass the quantity of matter contained in an atom of an element. It is expressed as a multiple of one-twelfth the mass of the carbon-12 atom, 1.992646481023gram, which is assigned an atomic mass of 12 units. In this scale 1 atomic mass unit (amu) corresponds to 1.660538731024gram.

Oh, pfft, I totally thought it was all meant to be one large group, i.e. three balls touching, with three coins touching, each touching each other, and then three pencils touching, each touching each of the balls and coins. Which looking back doesn't exactly work, but it did in my head this morning.

Precisely. As for the Bohr diagrams, it's really simple. Make a circle, and either write or draw the given amount of protons and neutrons inside, making sure to label properly. Find out how many electrons your element has, and begin putting the electrons in place by drawing "outer shells". The first outer shell is able to hold two electrons, but then it is full. The next can hold eight. I forget exactly how many each shell can hold, but I'm sure a quick peak through the textbook will tell you. Basically, as long as the outest outer shell (if that's termed correctly?) isn't full, the element will search for another element that it can easily bond with. That's why hydrogen bonds so much, its outer shell only has one electron, and wants to have another one for it to be stable. If that makes sense. Sorry, it's been a while. >_>

Also, Bona, man was I happy to see some new riddles from you today.

So, um, what am I actually meant to say that wouldn't fit in the rant thread? Honestly, and no offense to you, I don't think a "post anything you want" thread will last very long. It would just get too random and chaotic, with no one bothering to discuss with one another. That's why everyone has the ability to make topics, with people of common interests coming together and conversing.

I'm pretty sure she's referring to Obama being the anti-christ. Maybe not, but that's what I got from it. CuteSparklezGirl, if you believe any material you have to share is offensive, feel free to PM it to me. I'm someone who's pretty hard to offend, especially when it comes to this sort of stuff.