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Three Gods


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68 replies to this topic

#21 Rob_Gandy

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:49 PM

There are 3 smaller, easier puzzles that may serve as hints to building up the answer to this one.

I will post the first one below. Those with pride, feel free to not look.

Spoiler for Hint Puzzle1

Spoiler for Hint 1 answer

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#22 Yoruichi-san

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

But we claimed that the other God's know his answer, so therefore with that question you could get the two you ask saying yes , or the two you ask saying no, or different answers for each.


They know his pattern, but since I specify it is random at which point in the pattern I'd ask the question, they cannot know which his answer will be.
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#23 phaze

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

They know his pattern, but since I specify it is random at which point in the pattern I'd ask the question, they cannot know which his answer will be.

The way I understand it is they are God's, they know everything, they know both the Random Gods pattern and where he is in that pattern. They know what the Random God will answer even though it be random as if the random God had prepared beforehand a sheet of paper that says the first time I will answer it Da, the second time Da, the third time Ya. Of course the values on the paper are random in every sense that the word "random" is random
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#24 Yoruichi-san

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:49 AM

The way I understand it is they are God's, they know everything, they know both the Random Gods pattern and where he is in that pattern. They know what the Random God will answer even though it be random as if the random God had prepared beforehand a sheet of paper that says the first time I will answer it Da, the second time Da, the third time Ya. Of course the values on the paper are random in every sense that the word "random" is random


Right, but I'm adding an extra hypothetical random, i.e., one that is not on the sheet of paper, that is hypothetically at some point which is randomly determined (and independent of the random god's 'random') if I ask that question what will he say. I.e. if I randomly pick a point on that paper...

And I don't care how omniscient these gods supposedly are...there are some things that are just unknowable...or do I need herr Heisenberg to let loose the hounds? ;P

However, if you want to specify that questions are could be unanswerable are disallowed, fine...

Spoiler for The less fun method...

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Women are definitely stronger. We are [Fe]males, after all...

Some of what makes me me is real, some of what makes me me is imaginary...I guess I'm just complex. ;P

<3 BBC's Sherlock, the series and the man. "Smart is the new sexy."

Chromatic Witch links now on my 'About Me' page! Episode 3 is finally here!

When life hands me lemons, I make invisible ink.

#25 mmiguel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:31 AM

Spoiler for Hint Puzzle #1

There is a logical solution.
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#26 mmiguel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:37 AM

Okay, let me get this straight. We're assuming:

1) Random means the god will randomly answer YES or NO regardless of the question, not will randomly answer truthfully or not.
2) The gods all know what random's YES/NO pattern will be.

Spoiler for In that case...


This is not a paradox, it is a strategy that utilizes the fact that random is random ;).


Could we really distinguish between someone whose policy is to randomly select yes or no to each yes-no question against someone whose policy is to randomly select to be truthful or false, and then correspondingly select yes or no to each yes-no question?

Spoiler for

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#27 mmiguel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:41 AM

What happens when you ask the truth teller or the liar a question they can't answer?


Since that is a topic of interest for many posters, I guess I need to make something up here.
If you ask any god a non-well-formed question which cannot be evaluated as either true or false in the eyes of omniscience...
then there is no rule that you may rely on regarding how they will answer. It's up to them.

Example:
Is the sentence "this sentence is a lie" a true statement?
The gods may answer however they choose in that case (they all act like random).

The OP still applies for well-formed yes-no questions.
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#28 mmiguel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:48 AM

Spoiler for Hint 1 answer


:)

Correct-a-mundo.
Spoiler for Just to state explicitly


Here is Hint Puzzle 2:
Spoiler for

Edited by mmiguel, 19 September 2012 - 05:49 AM.

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#29 mmiguel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:54 AM

They know his pattern, but since I specify it is random at which point in the pattern I'd ask the question, they cannot know which his answer will be.


How will you choose such a random number?
Will you roll some dice?
What if they know how the dice will happen to land when you decide to roll them?
What if you decide to throw away the first roll and roll a second time --- what if they know how the dice will land at the second time?
What if for each of your possible choices, they know how every coin flip, dice roll, wheel spin, etc will turn out based on having tons of information, the laws of physics, and assuming we live in a world of causes and effects.

Your number can only be 0, 1 or 2 though, since you get 3 questions, and you need to save one question to ask about the sky.

I think trying to find questions that cannot be answered is not that helpful to finding the logical solution to the overall puzzle - but you are doing a good job thinking of possible paths of thought.

Edited by mmiguel, 19 September 2012 - 05:55 AM.

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#30 phaze

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:03 AM

Spoiler for For Hint puzzle 2

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