[Guest]

Along about the time I was just beginning my sophomore year in high school, Ed and Steve, the two remaining players, faced each other across a poker table for one last climactic hand. For our purposes here, it matters little who won. I will tell you that Ed did, but we shan’t dwell on that. What is important, however, was the variety of poker they had chosen.

Rewind to about the time when my father had just completed his junior year in high school. That was the year that Peggy sat Gerry down to a hand of poker under almost exactly the same set of circumstances. Again, who held the winning hand is immaterial. (It happened to be Gerry.) What is important is what those two hands, both winning and losing, were.

The question: Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent would be holding those cards in their hand of poker?

[Guest]

Along about the time I was just beginning my sophomore year in high school, Ed and Steve, the two remaining players, faced each other across a poker table for one last climactic hand. For our purposes here, it matters little who won. I will tell you that Ed did, but we shan’t dwell on that. What is important, however, was the variety of poker they had chosen.

Rewind to about the time when my father had just completed his junior year in high school. That was the year that Peggy sat Gerry down to a hand of poker under almost exactly the same set of circumstances. Again, who held the winning hand is immaterial. (It happened to be Gerry.) What is important is what those two hands, both winning and losing, were.

The question: Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent would be holding those cards in their hand of poker?

What kind of poker are they playing? Are they holding 5 cards?

If so..

[spoiler='5-card poker..

']I will list each hand and the number of ways they are possible.

1. Royal Flush=4 ways.

2. Straight Flush(not counting Royals)=36 ways

3. Four of a kind=624 ways

4. Full House=3,744 ways.

5. Flush(not counting straights or royals)=5,108 ways

6. Straight(not counting flushes or royals)=10,200 ways

7. Three of a kind=54,912 ways

8. Two pair=123,552 ways

9. One pair=1,098,240 ways

10. No Pair/High card=1,302,540 ways

all that adds up to 2,598,960 different 5-card hands possible.(Of course that is counting hands that are the same, but different suits, i.e.: pair of K's could be a club and a diamond, or a heart and a club and them are all counted as different.) So I geuss my answer would be that they have a 100% chance of holding one of the 2,598,960 possible 5-card poker hands.

[Guest]

What kind of poker are they playing? Are they holding 5 cards?

If so..

[spoiler='5-card poker..

']I will list each hand and the number of ways they are possible.

1. Royal Flush=4 ways.

2. Straight Flush(not counting Royals)=36 ways

3. Four of a kind=624 ways

4. Full House=3,744 ways.

5. Flush(not counting straights or royals)=5,108 ways

6. Straight(not counting flushes or royals)=10,200 ways

7. Three of a kind=54,912 ways

8. Two pair=123,552 ways

9. One pair=1,098,240 ways

10. No Pair/High card=1,302,540 ways

all that adds up to 2,598,960 different 5-card hands possible.(Of course that is counting hands that are the same, but different suits, i.e.: pair of K's could be a club and a diamond, or a heart and a club and them are all counted as different.) So I geuss my answer would be that they have a 100% chance of holding one of the 2,598,960 possible 5-card poker hands.

Just a bit more complex than that. Your questions need to be answered, and can be, from the information given.

[Guest]

Just a bit more complex than that. Your questions need to be answered, and can be, from the information given.

It should'nt matter what game they are playing or how many cards they have. They will still have a 100% chance of holding a hand of cards out of an x amount of possible hands playing any variation of poker. Thats like asking, "whats the chances of someone holding a card after they randomly draw a card from a 52 card deck?"

I must be missing somethimg in what you wrote. Could you rephrase the question? To me it sounds like you're asking what the chances are that they are holding a hand of cards in a poker game. Obviously 100%. Is this even a math problem, or is it some kind of trick question?

[Guest]

Just a bit more complex than that. Your questions need to be answered, and can be, from the information given.

You want the final hand or the hand they started with? What if it is a win by fold? Is it Hold'em or 5 card stud or one of the dozens of variants played? Same hand down to the number and suit or just a poker hand like a pair or a flush? Way too many variables.

If its a trick question: Factoring in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy's improbability drive i would say 100%.

[pdqkemp]

The question: Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent would be holding those cards in their hand of poker?

I'm not usually very good at these. Mostly I just enjoy reading them. But I usually at least understand the question.

Based on your question, we are looking for the chances they'd be "HOLDING" their cards? I'm sure that's not what you mean, but that's the way it reads. Unless the key word is "holding THOSE cards"; in which case I'm not sure what you mean by "THOSE" cards.

I'll take a wild stab at this and say they were physically holding their cards in their hands to help them cover themselves because they were playing strip poker and wanted to have something in their hand to cover themselves!

I'm sure my answer is ridiculous, but I really think you need to be sure you worded your question correctly.

[Guest]

There could also be a 0% chance of "holding those cards."

In stud games your cards stay on the table. So saying Gerry "held" the winning hand could be figurative, as in Gerry was in posession of the winning hand, but not literally holding it.

If this is the case, the vast majority of the listed information is completely extraneous; it really doesn't matter who won, the only true important fact is the sentence that states the type of poker they were playing is key to answering the question.

[Guest]

There could also be a 0% chance of "holding those cards."

In stud games your cards stay on the table. So saying Gerry "held" the winning hand could be figurative, as in Gerry was in posession of the winning hand, but not literally holding it.

If this is the case, the vast majority of the listed information is completely extraneous; it really doesn't matter who won, the only true important fact is the sentence that states the type of poker they were playing is key to answering the question.

Or maybe they were playing video poker at a casino, and no cards were held. But then he did say poker table in the first part.

[Guest]

I must be missing somethimg in what you wrote. Could you rephrase the question? To me it sounds like you're asking what the chances are that they are holding a hand of cards in a poker game. Obviously 100%. Is this even a math problem, or is it some kind of trick question?

In reply, with true and sincere respect: you are, no, not a correct interpretation, incorrect, yes, no.

The post was written very carefully and precisely. In its wording are at least 15 clues or hints that ultimately lead to the single, definable solution; a very, very small number, but a single, unique number nonetheless.

[Guest]

Along about the time I was just beginning my sophomore year in high school, Ed and Steve, the two remaining players, faced each other across a poker table for one last climactic hand. For our purposes here, it matters little who won. I will tell you that Ed did, but we shan’t dwell on that. What is important, however, was the variety of poker they had chosen.

Rewind to about the time when my father had just completed his junior year in high school. That was the year that Peggy sat Gerry down to a hand of poker under almost exactly the same set of circumstances. Again, who held the winning hand is immaterial. (It happened to be Gerry.) What is important is what those two hands, both winning and losing, were.

The question: Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent would be holding those cards in their hand of poker?

Maybe in the question you are asking what the chances are that Gerry and his opponent are holding the cards of Ed and Steve?

Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent are holding those cards(Ed and Steves) in their hands (Gerry and opponent) of poker? umm 0%?

[Guest]

Okay, I think I'm missing a card somewhere

the first is 9,10,Jack and King or a pair of Kings vs Jacks (9th and 10th grade and two faces)

The second would be pairs of Queens and Jacks (11th and 12th grade, two faces male and female)

so as I'm looking at it, Gerry wouldn't have the same hand as Ed, but maybe the same hand as Steve?

[Guest]

Okay, I think I'm missing a card somewhere

the first is 9,10,Jack and King or a pair of Kings vs Jacks (9th and 10th grade and two faces)

The second would be pairs of Queens and Jacks (11th and 12th grade, two faces male and female)

so as I'm looking at it, Gerry wouldn't have the same hand as Ed, but maybe the same hand as Steve?

I mentioned that there were many clues pointing to the answer. There are those which point astray as well. You have found those.

[Guest]

How about...

100% that Gerry and Peggy held their hands.

Assuming Ed and Steve, and Gerry and Peggy, were playing 5 card stud (basic poker), then the odds that Ed and Steve have the same hands as Peggy and Gerry would be, I believe:

10/52*9/51*8/50*...1/43 = 10!*42!/52!. A very small number.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Blatz

[Guest]

Ed and Steve weren't playing to see who won, they were playing different kinds of poker to find out the chances of both players on the same table drawing the two hands that would be as "climactic" as possible.

Peggy and Gerry did the same thing and drew those same hands, some 25 years ago.

There are no more climactic hands than the Poker of Aces going against the Royal Straight Flush, so they couldn't have been playing 5-card stud because the Ace had to be a common card.

Chances are they were playing some type of Hold'em in which players can make a hand using their own cards and the community cards. If they're playing Texas Hold'em, then one player was holding Pocket Aces (but not holding the Ace of Clubs), and the other player was holding a combination of two cards of 10, J, Q, or K of Clubs, with the other two cards being in the community cards along with the Ace of Clubs.

The chances of both players holding those hands is some mathematical figure based on above that I'm too lazy to calculate, or I guess once every 25 years in the author's case. 16 years for being in sophomore year of high school + 9 years dad waited after his junior year to get married and have a kid (give or take a few years).

[Guest]

Ed(ward G. Robinson) and Steve (McQueen) sat down to many hands of poker in the 1965 film "The Cincinnati Kid". The final hand, I believe (and am reassured by a quick Google search), culminated in Ed holding a queen high straight flush and Steve holding aces full of tens (they were playing five card stud).

That being said, I have no clue as to what the second part of the puzzle is referring. From your profile information, I gather that your father would have just completed his junior year in high school somewhere between 1936 and 1938. Even so, I have found nothing involving a Gerry, a Peggy, and poker in that time frame (if Googleing was illegal, the I plead guilty). If the question doesn't rely on the who of Gerry and Peggy (though, from the wording, I doubt that Peggy was playing Gerry, I suspect that she just brought him to the game and he was playing someone else), then, from the Wikipedia page of the aforementioned movie, the odds of that hand happening again are 332,220,508,619 to 1 as quoted from Anthony Holden.

Any way that this turns out, nice puzzle. I'll keep plugging away and see if I can come up with something more.

[Guest]

[spoiler='

Don't read this unless you must. I will know.']I know as well, the warm feeling af accomplishment. You and I think on similar levels. What is the first part of a news bulletin that you read?

Ed(ward G. Robinson) and Steve (McQueen) sat down to many hands of poker in the 1965 film "The Cincinnati Kid". The final hand, I believe (and am reassured by a quick Google search), culminated in Ed holding a queen high straight flush and Steve holding aces full of tens (they were playing five card stud).

That being said, I have no clue as to what the second part of the puzzle is referring. From your profile information, I gather that your father would have just completed his junior year in high school somewhere between 1936 and 1938. Even so, I have found nothing involving a Gerry, a Peggy, and poker in that time frame (if Googleing was illegal, the I plead guilty). If the question doesn't rely on the who of Gerry and Peggy (though, from the wording, I doubt that Peggy was playing Gerry, I suspect that she just brought him to the game and he was playing someone else), then, from the Wikipedia page of the aforementioned movie, the odds of that hand happening again are 332,220,508,619 to 1 as quoted from Anthony Holden.

Any way that this turns out, nice puzzle. I'll keep plugging away and see if I can come up with something more.

[Guest]

Ed(ward G. Robinson) and Steve (McQueen) sat down to many hands of poker in the 1965 film "The Cincinnati Kid". The final hand, I believe (and am reassured by a quick Google search), culminated in Ed holding a queen high straight flush and Steve holding aces full of tens (they were playing five card stud).

That being said, I have no clue as to what the second part of the puzzle is referring. From your profile information, I gather that your father would have just completed his junior year in high school somewhere between 1936 and 1938. Even so, I have found nothing involving a Gerry, a Peggy, and poker in that time frame (if Googleing was illegal, the I plead guilty). If the question doesn't rely on the who of Gerry and Peggy (though, from the wording, I doubt that Peggy was playing Gerry, I suspect that she just brought him to the game and he was playing someone else), then, from the Wikipedia page of the aforementioned movie, the odds of that hand happening again are 332,220,508,619 to 1 as quoted from Anthony Holden.

Any way that this turns out, nice puzzle. I'll keep plugging away and see if I can come up with something more.

spot on for the first half, and his deductions for the second half are correct. The math, as we don't know yet what the two hands were, is, of course, not correct.

Peggy died in 1949, of injuries suffered in a pedestrian accident. She is buried in Oakland Cemetary.

[CaptainEd]

I"m presuming Peggy means Margaret, such as Margaret Mitchell, leading to the possibility of Gerald O'Hara losing Tara in a poker game. But I don't remember Tara changing hands via a poker game. In fact, aside from Yankee wartime occupation, it stayed in the family, I think.

So, inchoate thoughts again...

[Prof. Templeton]

I"m presuming Peggy means Margaret, such as Margaret Mitchell, leading to the possibility of Gerald O'Hara losing Tara in a poker game. But I don't remember Tara changing hands via a poker game. In fact, aside from Yankee wartime occupation, it stayed in the family, I think.

So, inchoate thoughts again...

I believe the plantation was won in a poker game by Gerald, but that might only be in the book. I haven't seen the movie in many years.

[Prof. Templeton]

I just looked it up

Gerald wins the plantation with "four dueces" while it says his opponent held an "ace full".

[CaptainEd]

I just looked it up

Gerald wins the plantation with "four dueces" while it says his opponent held an "ace full".

Good job! Got to imagine this result bears on the question posed in OP. Edit: aside--was it draw or stud?

Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainEd

[Guest]

Kudos to the Professor, the Captain, and fdoubleprime.

Along about the time I was just beginning my sophomore year in high school,

Born Jan, 1950, thus graduated June, 68, and began soph year September, 65. Cincinnatti Kid was released October 15, 1965.

Ed and Steve,

Edward G Robinson and Steve McQueen, actors.

the two remaining players,

Only two players left at the table

faced each other across a poker table for one last climactic hand. For our purposes here, it matters little who won. I will tell you that Ed did, but we shan’t dwell on that. What is important, however, was the variety of poker they had chosen.

In The Cincinnatti Kid, the movie, it was clear that five card stud was being played. This, and the fact that there were only two players at the table, are the only relevant info so far. Fdoubleprime nailed this in post 15 and added further insight, as well as the Anthony Holden Math.

Post 16 Added hint re the first part of a news bulletin one reads is the headline or title. No one had seen the titular reference to Tara as yet.

Post 16 Added hint re Peggy. CapEd got the Margaret Mitchel and Tara connection.

Rewind to about the time when my father had just completed his junior year in high school.

Born October, 1920, finished his junior year of high school in June, 1936, the same month as the publication of the book, Gone with the Wind. Note that the movie did not appear until 1939 and did not contain the poker scene. And fdoubleprime was correct in deducing that Peggy “brought” Gerry to the game and did not play herself.

That was the year that Peggy sat Gerry down to a hand of poker under almost exactly the same set of circumstances.

The variation of poker was not mentioned in the book but from part one we know it to be 5 card stud, the other circumstance being that only two players were at the table.

Again, who held the winning hand is immaterial. (It happened to be Gerry.) What is important is what those two hands, both winning and losing, were.

The Professor correctly identified the hands. Scarlet’s father, Gerald O’Hara held four deuces to his opponent’s “ace full” , which is a full house, 3 aces and a pair of anything but deuces or aces.

The question: Based on the foregoing, what are the chances that Gerry and his opponent would be holding those cards in their hand of poker?

There are 2598960 ways to combine a 5 card hand.

There are 13 different possible ranks of the 4 of a kind. The fifth card could be anything of the remaining 48. Thus there are 13 * 48 = 624 different four of a kinds. But to narrow it to 4 deuces we divide by 13, making the chance of 4 deuces 48 of 2598960

There are 4 ways to arrange three cards of one rank (aces). There are 11 possible ranks after aces and deuces and 6 ways to arrange two cards of one rank. Thus there are 4*11*6=464 possible combinations for “aces full.”

The chance of having these two hands in one deal of 5 card stud are (48*464)/2598960^2 or

One in 303277347.

Expecting to be corrected on the math, have at it. Just hope it was enjoyed.