Lazy-bones Paradox

[Guest]

I'd say that it isn't useless for him to go anywhere, rather, it is impossible for him to choose to go. If he said that, well, he still felt like he had to choose, then I honestly wouldn't know what to do with him. I mean, come on, you think you're any different from mindless billiard balls? What makes you so special?

[Guest]

how about this, it is your destiny to go see the doctor or you don't regain health. Its as simple as that. whether or not you believe that destiny held the replenishment of your well being in the end there is always an ultimatum.

[Guest]

This paradox can best be sumed up in one of my favorite quotes with a few opinions after,

Destiny is no matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.”

-William Jennings Bryan (1860-1925)-

Destiny is not what we believe it to be, people look to it as an out, if destiny says so then it shall be, kind of thing. Destiny is not the ultimate decision maker in our lives, it merely lays the ground work for what we are to become. The choices we make shape our destiny, otherwise it is but a rough road of meaningless frivolity.

So in this case, if you are sick and don't want to go to the doctor, that is a CHOICE that ultimatly will affect your DESTINY, but destiny itself can not be held accountable for the inablility to make decisions.

[Guest]

There is no such thing as absolute destiny until after it has happened.

Reality consists of the current state of every particle and every bit of energy. At the most fundamental level known to science, that current state is described by probabilistic quantum fields, not by absolutes.

As a result, our choices actually design the future. We are gods who determine destiny. If everyone reading this will step outside right now and lift your left hand and produce a little current in the air, we could all cause a massive cyclone to miss Bangladesh in 2010, saving millions of lives (It's called the Butterfly Effect.)

The alternative hypothesis, the Multiverse theory, that all choices have been played out in an infinite array of parallel universes, and that time itself is an illusion, still doesn't get you off the hook. Because your train of consciousness (as a participating observer) can only take one causal path through this maze of infinite universes. (The illusion of time becomes a useful dimension for us physical beings.)

[Guest]

It's easy, you get well by going to the doctor instead of not going to the doctor!!! do you get it. ok say that its your maser plane to get well but only if you visit a doctor.

[Guest]

First of all, there is no destiny. if there was such thing as destiny, however, then destiny has already shifted its way into making people find the profession a knowlage of doctors and medical specialists. if destiny worked that way then people would be destined to becme doctors and other people needing the help from a doctor would develope the common sense of going to a doctor in the first place. simple as that.

[Guest]

Im a christian so this is how i look at it. God has a predetermined destiny for you (his plan for your life) but we have the free will to choose if we are going to follow that destiny(by believing what the bible says about you and letting your faith drive you and praying etc.) or not (by simply choosing not to listen to what God has to say) So in this situation God might want the man healed and all he has to do is go to the doctor and get his shot well if he doesnt then its his choice and has altered his destiny from what it should have been (Gods Plan) to what it is now (Mans Plan) and i know someone is gonna say how is it freewill if God already knows what your gonna pick, well my answer to that is this just because he knows what your gonna pick doesnt mean the choice isnt there and it doesnt mean he made the choice for you it just means that he knows what your gonna pick like if i was to lay $10,000 down on a table and right next to it lay down a bill for $1,000,000 that I have accumulated from a jeweler for you to pay and told you to pick one I know which one you are gonna pick but that doesnt stop the need for a choice to be made

[Guest]

Hmmm... Well, I would go to the doctors and get medication, cause it helped me over and over again. And if they don't, I try anything that is in my power. Then if someone actually tells me it's my destiny to die, or something... I would kill myself and thus ending the cycle.

Just kidding, of course... Or am I?

[Guest]

First of all, I don't believe in destiny, but if it was something like that to happen, then I guess the paradox is not even a paradox, its simple. If you are destined not to heal, you will heal even if you don't go to a doctor.Miracles or exceptions or whatever happen. There are 2 people in the world who have been cured by AIDS.Nobody knows how,but they were diagnosed with AIDS and now they are cured.Cannot be explained,but it happened.

I will give you another example.

My mother told me from her doctor that he(the doctor) had a patient that has gone through a lot in his life.Hit by a car and survives.Then, he falls from a tree.He has 8 broken ribs, but survives.Then one day he is diagnosed with cancer.The doctor gives him 6 months. After 1 year, the doctor meets that person who seems to be as healthy as an ox.

Maybe there is something.Maybe not.But the paradox is not a paradox if one can accept that miracles happen.And there have been many miracles in the world.Known and unknown.I`m an atheist by the way, but such things happen.

[Guest]

think logically

1-Destiny wanted you to think nothing could happen

so you dont go to the doctor

1a-you die

1b-you live

2-You want to hope for the best and go to the doctor

2a-you live

2b-you die

you can argue that it does not matter, but really if you go to the doctor you have better chances of survive then by "luck"

the point with destiny and predestination is that

even if a higher being or destiny knowns the outcomes

WE DONT!! so you can only hope for the best and hope with logic that your decisions are accurately judged

what is hurt by going to the doctor? more gained then lost

we dont know what will happen so it is impossible to tell

i believe in predestination...ehh i wont go into that yet

[Guest]

Let's say for examplel I chose not to go to a doctor and I die, then that was my destiny. Then assume I chose not to go to the doctor and I survive, then that was my destiny. Same thing if I choose to go to the doctor. Whatever the outcome, it was my destiny. Assumming of course that there is such thing as destiny. So whether you believe in destiny or not, really doesn't matter. Destiny could be there or not and we don't know it, either way. And just in case there is no such thing as destiny, I will go to the doctor, and I will obay the law, and I will behave etc. etc.

[Guest]

The fact of the matter, is that destiny does not work as a master plan already laid out in disregard to your decisions. Destiny should be thought in terms of outcomes from your decision. Destiny may know your ultimate decision on everything, but it cannot determine them.

[Guest]

If you wish to be deterministic, please consider the following thought: We are each allotted but ONE fatal disease. The job of the doctor is to guide through us life to that one fatal disease.

[Guest]

hm...well if destiny has designed a master plan regarding everything that is to happen then free will is an illusion. this means that if you are ill it is not REALLY your choice whether you go to the doctor or not (it is already preordained-if you are meant to be cured by a doctor then you'll go the doctor whether you like it or not, or if you are meant to be cured without the help of a doctor then you won't go)

Edited July 12, 2009 by equilibrium

[Guest]

Lazy-bones Paradox - Back to the Paradoxes

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, than I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or I don't. And if I shall not be healthy again, than I will not with or without help.

If I am ill and destiny has a definite plan for me, than it is useless to go anywhere.

How could you question the presented opinion?

The key to this paradox is that Destiy designed a master plan that defines EVERYTHING that is to happen. If EVERTHING was then defined then the theroy of "FREE WILL" is then thrown out. This in turn implies that the usefullness, or "uselessness" in this case, of doing anything would be irrelevant. It would be determined that you did or didnt go to the doctor, whether you were ill or not. To answer the question being useless to go to the doctor would be irrelevant because everything has already been defined. Lets say that Destiny has defined that you get ill, AND that you do not go to the doctor yet Destiny also defines you get well. The question becomes irrelevant because Destiny has defined what will happen. The paradox lies in the thought that you can do something against the definition of your destiny.

In short Destiny defines EVERYTHING you do in a master plan. The Illusion of "Free Will" comes from your mind thinking you have a choice when one is presented but in actuallity has already been chosen.

[Guest]

The way to answer any thoughts on destiny as to whether or not to going to the doctor to live is destiny. To me has always been an easy one. When speaking of destiny by rule of cause and effect anyone's destiny is every ones destiny. If you're sick and you choose to go to the doctor then it is you destiny to do so. Destiny has at that moment written that you are to go to the doctor, because the guy to your left who you didn't think could see you as laughing his a** off because you were picking your nose. He now is in a better mood when he gets bad new at work and he ends up not taking it out on his secretary who then doesn't cut some one of on the way to lunch not causing an accident that doesn't delay a a police office from responding to a domestic violence dispute that would have ended in a shooting with a stray bullet coming through your window and hitting you in the head killing you instantly. Every thing that happens happens for everyone's betterment. You may not believe it but it does. Being sick enough to go to the doctor my not seam like something good but hey it is a lot better than getting shot in the head while you are sleeping.

[Guest]

I would say destiny is only true for an instant in time since even the smallest event sets forth a new destiny, you cannot have a single destiny if you have free will. I think fate is a better word since it implies that whatever will happen will definitely happen regardless of your actions.

[Guest]

Who says it is his destiny to regain his health?

[Guest]

According to the Bible...

Destiny is...

Ecclesiastes 9

A Common Destiny for All

1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him. 2 All share a common destinythe righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, [a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.

As it is with the good man,

so with the sinner;

as it is with those who take oaths,

so with those who are afraid to take them.

3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

5 For the living know that they will die,

but the dead know nothing;

they have no further reward,

and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate

and their jealousy have long since vanished;

never again will they have a part

in anything that happens under the sun.

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [c] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

11 I have seen something else under the sun:

The race is not to the swift

or the battle to the strong,

nor does food come to the wise

or wealth to the brilliant

or favor to the learned;

but time and chance happen to them all.

12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:

As fish are caught in a cruel net,

or birds are taken in a snare,

so men are trapped by evil times

that fall unexpectedly upon them.

Edited October 24, 2009 by sirenacarolina

[Guest]

If it where a destiny, it will bee influenced by the way we think or act about it. Although we can not know the things to come, we can predict and therefore act accordingly to our needs or our desire. The attitude taken depends on the person, and the manner of interacting with the destiny in this paradox is letting it to do the work for you.

[Guest]

With the above in perspective, what you do has got nothing to do specifically of what is believed as a destiny, but destiny however, always becomes of what you do.

So if you are ill, you go to a doctor, now by destiny if you happen by a doctor who is unable to resolve the issue (which I believe to be a special thing, although they may prescribe you to a specialist $$) then by itself you have given up your basic right to living, not necessarily your destiny to live. Destiny by itself is nothing without the source to drive it - which is action to make it happen - to live resourcefully.

Please consider my opinion in the humility I present it with - I don't wish to raise a row on religious thinking because I am not, but presenting a certain view point based on my own way of living.

[Guest]

This is so simple.

There is no fate. There is no destiny. Its just a myth.

[Guest]

Destiny is irrelevant.

Choose to act and your destiny was to act.

Choose not to act and your destiny was not to act.

Your choices do not affect destiny because destiny is independent of them - this is the very definition of destiny.

Destiny only affects your actions if you assume to have knowledge of your own destiny, which is impossible by definition.

So in the end, if what you do has no affect on your destiny, the do whatever you want to do; Don't let any assumptions you have about your own destiny affect you decisions.

Faith in free will is as good as free will itself.

[Guest]

Destiny determines the choices, free will chooses between them

[Guest]

It is not useless. Perhaps it is his or her own destiny to go to a doctor to cure the illness so why would it be useless? You may not go to a doctor to regain you're health and regain it naturally but what if you were supposed to go to a doctor to cure it and you didn't go to the doctor and then died from that illness instead of living? And maybe it was destiny that you would go to a doctor and attempt to cure you're illness but failed at curing it? If destiny existed, life would be boring because you wouldn't be able to change anything. Everything would be set on a certain track or course of events. It is like a train chugging along on a track and there being an alternate track but for some reason not being able to go on that alternate track?

I might only be 13 year old, but this is how I view it. This is also an arguement against religion that

I take the side of.

Edited March 22, 2010 by grantf86