Lazy-bones Paradox

180 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I do not believe in "destiny" as it is untrue and foolish to believe in.

Humankind was Created by God, and He knows everything that will happen. If you break your leg, you have the common sense to go to a doctor. You do not question if it is your "destiny" to do so or not, because, just pretending that there is such a thing, if it were your "destiny" to do so, than you would or would not do it. But the Lord knows everything that we do - In His eyes, He knows exactly what will happen to us, what we will do, and so forth.

Since we cannot know what we are "supposed" to do or not, all we can do is live our lives, use our common sense in common problems, and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and obey Him when we fell His calling to do something.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

not sure if I should even banter with the uber-religious one.

but the concept of destiny is often twined with religion.. so...

if this super-being you say exists, does, and knows all we will do, isn't that declaring there is a destiny?

and this Jesus, according to your sacred stories, didn't he have a destiny to be killed, as so stated by himself?

and according to that same belief, aren't humans destined to have things happen to test them in this world we know?

and destined to be judged how we react to such tests?

see, it is not so easy to pooh-pooh the concept of destiny.

this thread was really about a paradox, though, in case we forgot.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

i am sorry if i am repeating anything, but i am in a hurry, and i couldnt resist answering this one.

i did see a tiny glimps of the first responce, and destiny isnt controlling them, if destiny has indeed got a master plan, then he, she, or it would obviusly (to make the plan viable) have to consider every eventuality, though it would undoubtably control random events like "acts of god" (as in those described in insurance policies) or computer crashes, and accidents, it would not control you so it would have to know what descision you would eventually arrive at, which if it knew you well enough it would be able to predict (this is assuming that "fate knows all") therefore you would be unable to change your fate, decided upon by destiny, unless you could see the future, or the plan destiny has for you (kind of like in final destination, when they see deaths plan), then you would get a REAL paradox, for example:

Assuming that the future is set, and that there is a plan set out by destiny, and that this plan is never wrong, then if a man could see all of time from the present onwards, and was determined to change it, could he?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I agree that "destiny" (along with "the future" and "time travel") is one of the most contentious topics there is. Maybe we can see destiny as a destination-setting thing. Although the endgame is set, the "how to get there" part is up to you. And as it has been popularly stated, its the getting there that really matters, not the destination.

For example, from your house, you HAVE to go to the mall by noon. Let's then say that it's your destiny to go to the mall and that you've got choice but to get there by noon. However, nothing prevents you from choosing your route. So you choose to take the main road instead of the scenic route and get stuck in traffic. You still get to the mall by noon because the way is shorter, but by then you're temper's already high and don't enjoy your stay there so much. What if you chose the scenic route? It's longer, but there's no traffic and, obviously, its scenic. So, you get to the mall by noon (the route is longer, so even without traffic it takes you til noon to get there) and you arrive fresh and quite happy (since you so appreciated the scenery) and enjoy yourself quite a lot.

So what's my point? Your destination might be predetermined, but the quality of your experience is determined by your choice.

Another example, this time on a more "serious" matter. Let's say you're destined to be a world leader. It cannot be avoided, it's destiny. However, what can be changed/affected is what kind of a leader you will be. If, for example, an oracle told you "behold, you will be the leader of the world" and because you heard it, then you decide to sit back and relax and just wait for it to happen. And so you get elected Grand Emperor of the Earth and rule it. What kind of a leader do you think you would make, knowing that you just sat there all this time waiting for "destiny" to happen? On the other hand, let's say after hearing the oracle's prophecy you decide "well then, I guess I'd better prepare for it" and so you study real hard, get leadership roles in organizations and so on, to prepare yourself for your future. And so, you get elected High King of All the Lands of this Great World and Even Those Beyond It. How do you think you would compare to the Grand Emperor of the Earth?

It can even get more specific. Let's say the oracle says "behold, you will be a GREAT leader of the world." Seems definite then, doesn't it, that you would be a good leader? Wrong! Great is not = to good. Great may have different meanings. Alexander was "Great", and so were Napoleon and Catherine. You could be great because you conquered all the countries on Earth through military might, or you could be great because all the Presidents, PMs, Kings, Grand Emperors, High Kings, etc. decided "hey, this guy is such a great leader, let's just let him rule all of us so that we can all just relax around a poker table." Again, it's up to you, and how you "get there" that truly defines your "destiny".

This is a highly simplified discussion of the matter of course, but I hope it still makes sense nonetheless.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Couldn't help ...

replying to the notion that I don't have the ability to choose not

to reply to the notion that I don't have the ability to choose not

to reply to the notion that I don't have the ability to choose not

to reply to the notion that I don't have the ability to choose not

to reply to the notion that I don't have the ability to stop typing.

But I must.

Is that my destiny or did I choose freely to act as if it were?

Ah, paradox, begone!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Destiny is not a paradox but mearly a crutch.

It is easy going through life blaming all of your bad decisions on destiny when the blame should be laid at your own feet.

Our society breeds victims because we portray to our youth that nothing is their fault from a very early age. When they do something wrong then the blame is laid on the parents who then blames the system etc. etc. etc.....

The same way that we can blame destiny for things not turning out the way we want then. Man breaks leg, decides not to see doctor, leg heals badly, blame destiny. If the man had made an educated decision then his leg had a better chance of healing properly. Destiny is not the benifactor of the mans good decision, no he will take full credit for making the right choice. The same way that if a child turns out right a parent will beam and let everyone know that they had a hand in it. I bet you will never hear that is was destiny for their child to turn out right.

So, again, Destiny is a crutch.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"There are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. The illusion comes afterwards, when you ask "Why me?" and "What if?" When you look back and see the branches, like a pruned bonsai tree, or forked lightning. If you had done something differently, it wouldn't be you, it would be someone else looking back, asking a different set of questions." - Max Payne

Destiny and fate are intuitive and instantaneous: If it happens it was meant to happen. The concept of anything happening differently is impossible in almost all possible circumstances. And don't bring up the paradox about "What if you go back in time and change the future??" If you go back and bring about a new future then the original you would never need to/get to go back and blah blah blah we all know those arguments about time theory.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It's really like with believing in anything. To find a solution one should just assupt 2 things:

1. it's impossible to KNOW that destiny exists

2. it's impossible to KNOW what the destiny is

So - if one is a rational man, and all paradoxes are created for those exclusively - you better go and see the doctor in any case (1), and it is probably what your destiny force to happen (2)...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If I'm destined to get better than I would get better by being destined to go to the doctor, and if I'm destined to stay sick than I would be destined to stay home, all of this assuming just going to the doctor would make you better which duh, wouldn't.

King of run on sentences!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

if you are sick and you know you are destined to get better (you don't know how you got better) so if you don't go to the doctor when you actually should have would you not change destiny and your fate as well?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

not really a paradox but more of a way of thinking. Nothing to solve or even think about here. If you believe in an unchangeable destiny, then don't bother with a doctor. If you think otherwise, then make that appointment

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The very concept of Destiny is derived from religion, and therefore must have an adjoining supreme being that must determine the destiny. In saying so we must assume that the supreme being is not restricted by the dimension of time (more of a religious belief). And so the supreme being is able to move in time and know ahead of all time every decision we are going to make. That knowledge converted to a so called document is 'Destiny'

Thus the concept of Destiny does not really contradict the concept of free will. Religion does not really deny the concept of free will, because it is upon our willfull decisions that we may be judged.

Here is a beautiful example. In the example we have a supreme being with knowledge of the future (destiny). And 1 human being.

The human being is presented with three different glasses each containing a drink. He is asked to pick up one of them. The supreme being meanwhile writes down through his knowledge of future the choice that the person is going to make.

Notice know that even though his choice of drink is pre-written (in so called destiny), he is absolutely free to make his choice and the writing is not determining or controlling his decision.

Destiny is therefore only devine knowledge of all future events.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Lazy-bones Paradox - Back to the Paradoxes

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless to for example go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, than I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or I don't. And if I shall not be healthy again, than I will not with or without help.

If I am ill and destiny has a definite plan for me, than it is useless to go anywhere.

How could you question the presented opinion?

Could destiny's master plan not include some cause to make you go visit that physician?? Destiny might have a purpose for that doctor which depends on you going there, and if you don't follow yours, you might destroy TWO of destiny's plans. Ofcourse, who knows what destiny works like, and what it works WITH... I would not count on destiny as an excuse for laziness.

BoilingOil

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If destiny is what is 'meant to be' then every choice you make becomes destiny. That is the only definitive reality. Any other options, ie. changing your mind, trying to 'outwit' destiny, or over-think every decision by trying to 'beat' destiny becomes irrelevant.

So, whether you go to the doctor or not, ultimately if you believe there is a 'plan' for you then your final decision is what was 'planned' all along. The outcome would be considered 'destiny' no matter which end result were true. Your resulting health would not come into play, it would simply be the outcome of a decision you were meant to make.

Gee, I hope I didn't sound confusing there.

Oh, THIS is a beautiful, short explanation. Thanx!

BoilingOil

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This paradox is simple.

Your destiny is either "to go to a doctor and get better" or "to not go to a doctor and get better".

Just because you will get better, doesn't mean you shouldn't go to a doctor.

Every choice you make is what destiny decided you will make, therefore, destiny is irrelevent and anyone who claims to know theirs can easily be wrong.

(I signed up just for this paradox)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The question of destiny ultimately boils down to free will, and to be honest, I don't see that there is any reason to believe in free will. Think back, has there been any point in your life in which you acted without cause? Everything is caused by something. If the man did not go to the doctor because he thought his destiny was to have his leg heal, then he would be wrong because it would be his destiny if he had gone to the doctor, but him being stupid and thinking that it would happen anyway was actually his destiny, and he would be out of luck.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If destiny truly controlled everyone, and if one person were to be sick, their destiny would be to go to the doctor. If a person was truly destined to be better, then they would have that decision to make whether or not to go to the doctor. Destiny would dictate that they would go to the doctor as well. part of destiny is keeping in line with the rest of itself.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If destiny designed a master plan, which defines everything that is to happen, then your choice as well as the outcome has already been decided including whether or not you will question your destiny.

Alternatively there may be a multiple choice destiny, for the ultimate master plan, like deciding the direction of a story from a number of options, in this case two decisions, either leading to the same two possible outcomes that may or may not be dependant upon the first decision. It may all be due to destiny but destiny gave an opportunity effect the outcome while having all bases covered.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If if there was a destiny list that stated your health would improve, it would have the reason for the imporvement listed before it. Doing the thing that was listed is what would improve your health. If there was no reason listed then none is required and no action is needed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

A. One does not necessarily have to believe in destiny.

B. Assuming there is a destiny and it directs everything that happens

in one's life towards a specific goal, then how is choosing to go to the doctor arbitrary?

If you go to the doctor then it is destiny controlling you and maybe

getting well or dying is the after effect of the first stimulus.

C. Unless, we assume that destiny is merely an outline given to one at birth. Then

going to the doctor becomes arbitrary. It merely becomes a mind game. Take, for example,

a person who has worked very hard and failed. He will not feel as bad as the person who

has done nothing and has failed. Since we cannot know our fate before hand, we try

because it gives us a feeling of peace because we did everything in our power to change an outcome.

It's Illogical but hey, all emotions are illogical.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The fact that the sentence is started out as "IF" destiny designed a master plan... Then we would know "IF" we were going to be healthy or not... Not Guessing with "IF" but "knowing". Thus "knowing" that we were going to be either Healthy or not after acquiring this "said" illness, it would also need to be true, that we "now know" how we become healthy again or not due to our decision. What does it matter anyways, since we do not know. Thus this cute but useless paradox continues down the rabbit hole.

Johnny M Khaos

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If destiny is real then it would also be told in your destiny that you will go to the doctors and get well or that you will not go and die. There are many variations of what the out come could be, however it is safe to say that if there such a thing as destiny then you would follow the course of your destiny thus the actions you take would be apart of the story.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If destiny designed a master plan which defines everything that is to happen, isn't it useless, for example, to go to a doctor? If I am ill and it is my destiny to regain health, then I will regain health whether I visit a doctor or not. If it is my destiny to not regain my health, then seeing a doctor can't help me.

How could you question the presented opinion?

===============================================

This isn't a true paradox, but a free will argument.

If I am sick and have free will, I can choose to live or die.

If I am sick and do not have free will, I will die if I am destined to, and I will live if I am destined to.

I will not know what my destiny is unless I am alive.

I will not know if I am destined to live until I live.

I will not know if I am destined to die until I die.

If I die, I will not know either way.

Therefore:

If I live, I could have either free will or destiny.

If I die, neither scenario can be proven.

In summary, the choice to live fulfills both scanarios of free will and destiny, all at once equating them and canceling one another out. Neither matters.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Something you have to take into account is that we don't know destinies plan. If there is a master destiny plan, and one thinks that this makes going to the doctor useless, then they are destined to be stupid enough to die of some illness or another. Part of our destiny is the illusion of free will. It's best to follow this illusion, rather than try to just fly by and let destiny take it's course. Destiny favors those who don't trust destiny.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If you work it out, knowing or not knowing destiny's plan is irrelevant. The question of free will or not free will is solved with the outcome, "It doesn't matter."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.