[Guest]

BraindDen is a great place because of the time, energy, and mental athletics contributed by all its members. However, while most of us can only give a little bit, it should be recognized that there is a significant expenditure of time and money by the site's creator and sole admin (rookie1ja) to keep this place thriving and fun for everyone. It is truly a labor of love for the rookie, but none of us want to see him burn out due to the drain of running the site. This post is about exploring options to help relieve the pressure a bit.

Probably very few of us would have made it past the first page of the forums if the site weren't freely available, so I think it's fair to say that the free and open nature of the site is critical to its success. But how can the costs be defrayed? I sent a PM to a number of regular members, and the foremost suggestion was ...

1. Ads

It seems most members would have no problems with the addition of a few unobtrusive ads, and the more visitors the site gets, the greater the revenue generated by the ads. If you think ads would be an acceptable change to the site, please indicate this in your response to the poll. But what about ...

2. PayPal donations

Would there be enough interest in supporting the site to make this a worthwhile option? Would it be appropriate to have set amounts, a minimum donation amount, or leave it completely up to the member?

3. Voluntary monthly subscriptions

It's easier to contribute regularly and consistently if you designate a small amount each month rather than making individual donations whenever you happen to think of it. What's the general feeling towards such subscriptions?

This raises another question. If there are voluntary subscriptions, should there be perks that come with being a voluntary supporter? For example, perhaps a member could get the same editing rights as a VIP member simply by donating a set amount per month (say, $25). Would that be worthwhile? Please indicate whether or not you would seriously consider choosing such an option via the poll.

Additionally, the hosting costs that rookie mentioned to me seem a bit high. Perhaps some members are aware of better options which could reduce costs. If so, please discuss with rookie via PM.

Basically, after I brought up the idea, rookie indicated he is definitely interested in getting some help, but I don't think he wanted to lead the charge himself. Of course, help can also take the form of assistance with moderating; this place would be considerably more chaotic if it weren't for the outstanding efforts of martini and bonanova, but most of us don't have the time or fortitude to take on such an assignment. If we have a bit of cash to spare, however, it would be greatly appreciated, and this thread is a good place to post your thoughts on the matter.

I appreciate the responses I already received, but I realized I don't want to be the mediator for this topic. I just want to stir up interest and generate feedback.

So let's hear it. Let the rookie know what you think.

[unreality]

Sorry that I've been busy lately, haven't been on much to reply to your PM- but I saw ads. Monthly subscriptions are a huge No-No. Forums are free- it's always been that way ;D

just my 2 cents

[Guest]

Forums are free- it's always been that way ;D

Au contraire, I'm pretty sure they're never free. Somebody is always paying for the hardware, software, and bandwidth, and the time spent on maintenance is usually time that could be spent making money. Just like with open source software, there is a cost, but free forums thrive and grow anyhow because people care and donate to the cause, whether in the form of time or money. If you're a cash-strapped college student, you may only have the former, while a middle-aged professional may find cash far easier to come by than spare hours.

Don't let the free nature of material on the web fool you; there's always a balance between givers and takers (or seeders and leechers, if you prefer).

[Guest]

as I know rookie1ja personally .. he is smart enough to earn money to cover the cost of hosting some other way than spoiling this forum.. what he really needs is help with admin work because this forum is consuming most of his free time

I like his idea to keep open space for anyone to join and post riddles, puzzle and other mind boggling stuff, still clean of any ads. This place is for everyone from any part of the word and of any background who is interested to join. It should be free and should not discriminate .. any subscribtion charge would dramatically reduce the number and diversity of members.

Edited April 12, 2008 by rookie1ja

[Guest]

Au contraire, I'm pretty sure they're never free. Somebody is always paying for the hardware, software, and bandwidth, and the time spent on maintenance is usually time that could be spent making money. Just like with open source software, there is a cost, but free forums thrive and grow anyhow because people care and donate to the cause, whether in the form of time or money. If you're a cash-strapped college student, you may only have the former, while a middle-aged professional may find cash far easier to come by than spare hours.

Don't let the free nature of material on the web fool you; there's always a balance between givers and takers (or seeders and leechers, if you prefer).

I can help by removing the site to server with unlimeted bandwidth for minimum price or even for free,also with ads.Just have to check again for the server to be 100% sure.

[Guest]

It should be free and should not discriminate .. any subscribtion charge would dramatically reduce the number and diversity of members.

There seems to be a strong negative reaction to the word "subscription." Maybe that's not the best word, since it implies receiving access to a service for a recurring fee, but that's not what's being suggested. The idea presented is more like an automated recurring donation. I was simply opening up for discussion possible ideas to help defray the cost of running the site, because I like the site, and because I know rookie is favorable to the idea.

Incidentally, I really don't understand the negative reaction. How would voluntary subscriptions, possibly combined with perks, in any way reduce membership or diversity? There's a reason I repeatedly used the word voluntary. I thought that it was pretty clear that such an addition to the site would not in any way impact those who did not want to be impacted by it. What am I missing?

Regarding ads, rookie mentioned that he would prefer not to have ads. I understand, but money comes from just a few places:

1. The creator's pocket

2. Advertisements

3. Donations

4. Required Fees

I think it's pretty clear that #4 doesn't fly for a forum like this. So, if you don't get #3, and you don't want #2, you're stuck with #1. My feeling when I raised the topic was that there are members who enjoy the site (myself included) that would be willing to donate something to offset the personal cost to the administrator. Incidentally, subscriptions weren't my idea, they were rookie's, so it's obvious he's interested in trying to reduce #1. As you mentioned, I'm sure he would appreciate a greater commitment of time as well, but from my viewpoint, it's much, much easier to contribute a few dollars than it is to commit significant amounts of time. The concept of a subscription (monthly donation) is just a simple way to encourage more consistent and regular contributions, rather than spontaneous larger amounts. $5/month is a bigger donation than $25 twice a year. Still, I understand that many, if not most, would rather avoid any commitment of the sort, in which case a one-time donation approach is a better solution.

Regarding ads, I understand that they're undesirable, but I really don't think they're as bad as some seem to think. Every day I use online programming forums, and I honestly couldn't remember whether or not some of the forums I frequent even had ads. I just checked, and they all do. Ads are so ubiquitous on the web that it's unusual not to see them. I really don't think it would have much negative impact on membership or enjoyment of the site, and it's a much more reliable source of income than voluntary donations.

[unreality]

Au contraire, I'm pretty sure they're never free.

Of course not- hosting a website takes money. I meant for the end user, though

Regarding ads, I understand that they're undesirable, but I really don't think they're as bad as some seem to think. Every day I use online programming forums, and I honestly couldn't remember whether or not some of the forums I frequent even had ads. I just checked, and they all do. Ads are so ubiquitous on the web that it's unusual not to see them. I really don't think it would have much negative impact on membership or enjoyment of the site, and it's a much more reliable source of income than voluntary donations.

I agree (which is why I voted for ads ;D)

[Guest]

I believe there are ads they appear, but I suspect, like me you skip that.

I agree with keeping it a free and friendle forum, any one can join, any one can post, anyone can enjoy but I also agree that a volantry subscription should be available.... How about a jolt from proffessional/business sponsorhip. A little out of touch for a year now, maybe we can all think about that one. It is possible to get help from adware (google) from blogs, perhaps this can be factored into the equation. A braindenBlog.com ???? self supporting with top posts/topics being loaded and rotated with easy input from automtically invited posters but aproved before addiition.

Well, something of that nature. Google adware is placed free and automatically to PRE-SET conditions (can be re-set and re-set, and re-set) to the request of the blogger.

I would like to see a free forum stay, but would not object to a free 1 year and option to renew at 10 buks/euros per year - that can't be of harm to a quality forum like this

Thanks to ALL the back office people that keep theBrainDen running - including all members that contribute with topics and responses.

I'm loving it! Now there's a sponsor to think about.

[unreality]

If it were required to pay money to visit BrainDen, I would not visit it. I am only a student and have no money to donate Please don't think of me as a bad person... but I just don't have the cash

So I'm all for other options. If you guys do decide on some mandatory fee, however, it was nice knowing you all!

[onetruth]

Sorry to just be adding my 2 cents now (not really...my 2 cents are still in my pocket...after all, this site is free!). Ever since I saw the option to donate, I've thought that about what I can afford to donate. I do prefer things to be ad-free, or have minimal ads. I also understand that not everyone can afford to pay for this site. I've been a college student, and now I'm a single mom. A year ago, I wouldn't have had money to pay for a fee. I think that those who can donate should, and if they want to have a voluntary subscription, they should have that option. I also think that if voluntary subscriptions do become an option, subscribers should not receive perks at the exclusion of non-paying members (such as exclusive forums for cash customers only). I'm willing to donate what I can (and it may not be much at all because I'm saving up to move across the country, plus participate in my best friend's wedding, but it'll be something), without receiving any benefits.

[Guest]

I'm wondering, besides rookie, martini and bonanova, is there anyone else running this site behind the scenes. It just seems a bit big for only 3 people . If there is, they deserve some recognition.

[unreality]

I believe it's just Rookie running the site. Martini and Bonanova are just moderators of the Brainden Forum, which means they may be able to see an extra forum, and edit other people's posts, and move/delete topics, etc, and that's just for the forum. Rookie is the main admin of both the forum and the entire site as a whole

[rookie1ja]

I believe it's just Rookie running the site. Martini and Bonanova are just moderators of the Brainden Forum, which means they may be able to see an extra forum, and edit other people's posts, and move/delete topics, etc, and that's just for the forum. Rookie is the main admin of both the forum and the entire site as a whole

correct

ps1, both Martini and bonanova are doing great job

ps2, members make this forum alive

[unreality]

to be honest, I haven't seen much activity from Bonanova of any kind recently. I wonder what happened to him. He used to come on so regularly

[rookie1ja]

to be honest, I haven't seen much activity from Bonanova of any kind recently. I wonder what happened to him. He used to come on so regularly

bonanova should be back from vacation in a few days

[kingofpain]

How about doing things the slashdot way? Ad supported usage is free and people who dislike the ads can subscribe to eliminate ads? That sounds very capitalistic, but seeing as we have a few members willing to tolerate ads and a few who are willing to subscribe, it might be a strong solution.

I do not like the idea of giving paying subscribers more authority as then it ends up being a case of economic inequality which I am sure rookie does not want to perpetrate on this forum

My $0.02

Cheers!

--

Vig

[Guest]

as long as theres not one post then a huge add then another post im ok w/ adds