[unreality]

After seeing/reading/participating in many of these religious topics, I've often thought about my personal origin of not rejecting religion, but the thing is that I can keep going backwards... I remember in 5th grade telling some people I did not believe in god and one of them said confidently that I would be struck by lightning. Well that hasn't happened yet but I feel that my dad, who is a scientist, has influenced me toward reason from a young age. This troubles me because I feel like a hypocrite if I accuse anyone of being indoctrinated into a religion from an early age. It wasn't as extreme with me, very subtle, we still went to church on occasion but not often, so it was left kind of open for me to decide, but how could I have decided otherwise?

I guess this is for the most part a moot point because in the last 5 years I have gone from passive nonbeliever to actual atheist by researching this stuff myself and participating in debates, but nevertheless I am aware how someone can be polarized by that kind of thing, so I'm wondering:

(a) how did you become the religion/nonreligion that you are today? Were you born into it or did you switch to it from something else?

(b) if you were born into it, how do you justify your adherence to it?

[Guest]

i'm sorry you thought that way.....what i meant was that many theists do not actually care much about their religion.....they lose faith and think that their crimes will go unpunished......hence the increase in crime rate.....

btw.....the terrorists also use religion as an excuse when they actually don't care about it.......if they truly cared about their faith, they wouldn't commit such intolerable acts........

so what i'm saying is: the way 'some' people use religion to cause mayhem and destruction in the world just proves that they have no moral values, or religion for that matter (atheists are excluded from this statement....)

i have a question; is scientology a part of atheism? or is it separate??? isn't it based on logic also???

(ugh!!! i just confused myself!!!)

I'm not going to touch most of that, but the Scientology thing...

It's a con game. Pure and simple. It's a massive pyramid scheme pawned off as a religion. The "True Believers" are the fools who pay in to "learn the secrets" of the religion (what "real" religion would require tithes just to get in the door? Everyone knows the best policy is that the first few are free. ). The upper echelon of the "religion" make good money off of the faithful's willful ignorance and adherence to the principle of "a fool and his money are soon parted."

It is most certainly not part of atheism (though since atheism is an absence of belief in a higher god, there is no "Atheistic" religion). It may be designed by atheists to fool people fed up with other religions, but unwilling to give up on religious doctrine completely due to the indoctrinating nature of religion. I don't know the full precepts of Scientology, but they teach that sins and evil spirits exist on this planet because some alien race brought the sinners from another world and dumped them in our volcanoes millenia ago. Their souls were consequently trapped on this plane and continue to plague humanity with taint and sin. You have to pay them to learn how to free yourself from the spirits' influences.

At least, that's what I've heard. Atheists look at Scientology as an example of how easy it is for religious indoctrination to lead people to believe insane things. I don't usually watch the satirical cartoon "South Park," but I did see the episode they did a few years ago on Scientology and they had to flash the message, "This is what they actually believe!" on the screen when describing Scientologists' "beliefs" so that people wouldn't think it was satire. Make what you will of that!

And yeah, what unreality said.

[EDM]

Phew!! thanks.......personally, i think scientology is lame, but i didn't know......

[Guest]

In addition I can NOT recall a single war or a terrorist act that has ever been started or carried out by a nonbeliever.

Ummm.... what?! Two world wars, Stalin's purges, the Holodomor, the Great Leap Forward, Korea, Congo, Khmer Rouge, Russian Revolution, Chinese Civil War... just off the top of my head.

[Guest]

i have a question; is scientology a part of atheism? or is it separate??? isn't it based on logic also???

ROFL!! Scientology is a pseudo-religious cult started by a science-fiction writer whose stories were so awful, he was only able to sell them on Amway.

Apparently, millions of years ago, an evil galactic emperor called Xenu wanted to kill off a bunch of his subjects, so, under the pretext of auditing their income taxes, he brought them to Earth in a gigantic DC-8, blew them up with hydrogen bombs and dumped the bodies into volcanoes. Their spirits were then sucked up by a great vacuum-cleaner and forced to watch a really terrible science-fiction movie (no doubt scripted by L. Ron Hubbard) about, among other things, some dude being nailed to a tree, a happy little guy with a fat belly, and some other fellow with four arms and an elephant's head. Bewildered and utterly defeated, the spirits faded and collected into puddles of a very cynical and despondent gooey substance, no longer able to tell myth from reality (reality, of course, being that they are the floating spirits of dead aliens). This alien jizz of pessimism now permeates our souls, poisons our minds, and prevents us from living our rightful existences as omnipotent beings. If only we had enough money to give to the Church, we could be freed of its evil influence, and achieve transcendence! Hooray!

[Guest]

I'm born catholic.....and PROUD OF IT!!!!

It doesn't matter if you were atheist or of one religion.....people choose their religion and direction later in life....just because one is raised to be atheist doesn't mean they have to be one.....same goes with all aspects in life....just because one generation does or chooses something, doesn't mean that the next generation have to follow them.....

Irony (EYE-run-ee) n: ^^^ this.

some people don't care about religion and that's why there is so much crime and madness in the world....

I would be very interested to see what evidence you have to support this conclusion. At the very least, you are asserting that atheists and/or non-practising theists are more disposed to criminal acts and insanity. You could convince me that this is true by showing, for instance, that the rates of crime and mental illness are highest in the most irreligious states, or that they have increased steadily since the Enlightenment. I eagerly await the results of your research.

Personally, i've never been able to figure out why there are atheists......how can one not have faith in a higher power or God?

It's really quite simple: I don't believe in your Catholic God, or any other, for precisely the same reasons that you don't believe in Ganesh, Jupiter, Ra, Kukulkan, Yemaya....

No one i know has been able to properly explain the big bang......if the big bang created the universe.....what created the big bang???

The theory does not attempt to explain how the Big Bang happened in the first place. On the contrary, the theory explicitly states the cause of the Big Bang (if it has one) to be unknowable (although there are other theories as to what may have caused an event such as the Big Bang).

To answer your question though, your argument is essentially this: everything must have a creator, so it doesn't make sense that the Universe can exist without God. The rather obvious counter-argument is that, if God exists, He must also have a Creator, and so on, ad infinitum. Therefore, whether or not you believe that God created the Universe, you must eventually become reconciled with the notion that there was once nothing, followed by... er, something, so why not just cut to the chase, and conclude that "something" is most likely the beginnings of the Universe we see all around us?

If science has an answer for everything.....why can't they answer miraculous cures of people or strange paranormal occurings or souls..??? and for goodness sake....don't tell me it's ectoplasm or that kind of nonsense!!! It's too ridiculous!!!

Please identify one credible scientist who ever claimed that science can, or ever will, provide the answer to everything. And frankly, ectoplasm makes at least as much sense as an invisible magic-man in desperate need of our approval and gratitude.

[EDM]

ROFL!! Scientology is a pseudo-religious cult started by a science-fiction writer whose stories were so awful, he was only able to sell them on Amway.

Apparently, millions of years ago, an evil galactic emperor called Xenu wanted to kill off a bunch of his subjects, so, under the pretext of auditing their income taxes, he brought them to Earth in a gigantic DC-8, blew them up with hydrogen bombs and dumped the bodies into volcanoes. Their spirits were then sucked up by a great vacuum-cleaner and forced to watch a really terrible science-fiction movie (no doubt scripted by L. Ron Hubbard) about, among other things, some dude being nailed to a tree, a happy little guy with a fat belly, and some other fellow with four arms and an elephant's head. Bewildered and utterly defeated, the spirits faded and collected into puddles of a very cynical and despondent gooey substance, no longer able to tell myth from reality (reality, of course, being that they are the floating spirits of dead aliens). This alien jizz of pessimism now permeates our souls, poisons our minds, and prevents us from living our rightful existences as omnipotent beings. If only we had enough money to give to the Church, we could be freed of its evil influence, and achieve transcendence! Hooray!

ROFL.......With cults like this.....I can't believe why we are discussing about atheists vs religious..... ROFL!!!!

We should be discussing about this hilarious and practically geeky story and how funny it sounds!!!!

Anyway.....d3k3....did you read my last post?

as for the Irony bit......I'm not being ironic.....i choose to stay in my religion because I want to!!! I can change if I want, but I'm not going to!!!

The whole 'Ganesh, Jupiter,etc.....' - I thought someone would say that.....but they have a faith in a higher being, and that's the important bit to me....

and for the Big Bang thought..... something was the beginning of the Universe.....but it wasn't the Big Bang!!!

And lastly, Ectoplasm is not a gr8 explanation....neither is an invisible magic-man ........that's not what I spoke about.....I spoke of a higher power.....who doesn't need our approval......

[EDM]

Edit: nevermind.....added something in the wrong topic.....

Edited June 4, 2010 by EDM

[Guest]

ok.. so after following this topic for quite some time and gatherin my own thoughts... here is what i think...

i was born a hindu... there! i'm the odd one out here... and will continue to claim hinduism as my religion.. although i believe none of it... reasons for me doing so are simple... hinduism is also a part of the rich culture of the indian society as are all other religions which literally make this country... i learn a lot about ancient society, sanskrit as a language, customs of that time, etc.. that have eventually shaped today's society...also the fables or stories or myths, epics whatever u call them are rich in moral value, politics, etc. which i discovered when i recently read them again with a more rational attitude...

also, my thought on all religions...according to me they are fictional...developed from time to time probably to generate fear of somethin unimaginable and generally to make man follow the good path...only here's where fundamentalism sets in and creates havoc... its important not to remain rigid in your ideas...

having said this although i do not believe in God in particular... faith is a completely different thing...

Having faith creates confidence psychologically and i dont mean faith in god... but in general faith in yourself, others around.. just to make my point i'll put this in the form of an example...

this year i gave an exam jee(joint entrance exam) for the top institute in India - the IIT's (probably uve heard of them).. jus before the exam we had a gather together.. where our teacher instilled in us courage (sounds wierd but this exam is like a battle for all those who prepare for two long years), ridding us of our pre- exam jitters by making us have faith and belief in our ambitions, abilities, and our reasons for which we all wanted to clear the exam... needless to say this worked wonders on the exam day... surprisingly i never felt scared...it was obviously purely psychological.... but it was helpful... by the way i dint clear the exam.... either ways i learnt that faith is in someway important in our lives...

ok i've taken up a lot of space.. and shud stop...

[EDM]

You know what? This discussion made me realise that although we have our different cultures, religions/non religions, etc....we all have one thing in common: values........This topic just made me appreciate everyone more.....

BRAINDEN ROCKS!!!

[Guest]

You know what? This discussion made me realise that although we have our different cultures, religions/non religions, etc....we all have one thing in common: values........This topic just made me appreciate everyone more.....

BRAINDEN ROCKS!!!

yep i agree... the people here are just AWESOME!!!!!!

[unreality]

what if I told you I had no values at all?

haha jk, I do and I think you're right. That's really what makes someone decent, is their values and how they regard/respect themselves and the world