[Guest]

WRITE YOUR OWN LAWS

I think it’s possible that we can resolve the whole peace issue by simply writing our own CODE. One that we and others can live by. If you have any suggestions as to what would be useful in a unilateral agreement reply to this post and maybe we can cut the world leaders a little slack and even make them redundant.

Lets formulate our own civilised code here, Then send it out to all the governments etc to dare to act.

I’ll pay the postage

[Guest]

Re last paragraph.......

The two above conflict, can you clarify?

I trying not to be picky, beliefs/religion will have a degree of effect, but the point is apart from arguments, is there a chance this code does not exist on this forum - apathy or lack of commitment to a subject that is perhaps too debateable - have more say make a difference if you or anybody wants.

Just because I don't have a belief I am not saying that it should simply be exclude - more of a case that it is at the moment likely to cause conflict to include them in a followable code. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps there is a way to include it but I personally don't see it.

It's wasn't my intention to try and dissuade you further from your optimistic pursuit. I already commented earlier in the thread why I feel it's unproductive to pursue a code, and that wasn't the objective of my last comment, although it kind of took a turn in that direction. I was simply trying to provide some context for bociniki's expressions regarding mankind being inherently bad, since I believe somewhat similarly to this.

I'm not sure what I can make more clear in the statement you asked me to clarify. There's no conflict. I stated:

"I think such a society is possible, and is exactly what God originally intended, but I don't think it will happen without divine intervention."

I guess I could make that more clear by saying that I believe God already has a plan to accomplish what it is that you would like to achieve, and it's basically counter-productive to try and do it on our own. So, no, sorry, I have nothing to add to the code.

[Guest]

If you really believe that man is inherently good, than how did they get to be so bad, if the first living being to be human was good, than where did the bad even come from?

[Guest]

Like your style DP

concise and well thought out.

Faith doe'nt work for me - other than faith in human nature, and mother nature too .

MN claims back everything lost/taken. The A bombs and testing contaminated and nature cleans it all up.

[Guest]

I don't think that man is basically good. I think that you would need to prove that man is basically good or that man is perfectible before we can make this 'CODE' with a good conscience.

Nearly all but a few are good, though we can all make errors of judgement, or even lapse from time to time - not perfectly good - but good enough

(my opinion) - So, lets use our "Good Consience" and make a difference. Trying beats not trying any day.

If you really believe that man is inherently good, than how did they get to be so bad, if the first living being to be human was good, than where did the bad even come from?

What is so bad - some are, for some it's a matter of inflicting there evil randomly - such as serial killers. Wife beaters, and more personal violent crime is defective behaviour. Why? I don't really know even though I have had to study behaviour.

Who was the 1st living being you can go back as far as you like. History shows us how we were, today, shows us what we are, but the future is up to us I believe.

This is how we are on this site -

be nice to each other- respect each other, treat others like your treated, ........... work as one- not use money as power use life.

Everyone has valid points, maybe it is gonna take time or is it a case of Apathy + Belief / Effort + Input = Result

Time will tell

[Guest]

what I was trying to say is where did evil come from? If humans are really good and you blame all their shortcomings on society and their situation, where did the bad society or situation come from?

[Guest]

what I was trying to say is where did evil come from? If humans are really good and you blame all their shortcomings on society and their situation, where did the bad society or situation come from?

Good question, self control and moral upbringing are the key. Society's leaders are a big part of the problem. Biggest offenders are in Africa ( I feel), due to the immediate need to gain from any control they are given - from personal experience where you have to 'fix' a problem that is'nt there. Obviously this is not the only example. I do feel this is one of the hardest places to make headway in respect of a moral and practical CODE. The French too like to make rules and are the first to break them. It takes time and the right person/s to make the necessary change/s.

Paradox situation I suppose. The leaders are responsible for our problems, yet we need to find one that CAN make a difference... With our help. How can someone (Leader) find guidance from the people if the people wait for some other form of intervention, which so far has'nt happenned and as far as I am concerned, never will.

I want to leave a future for my children and there children. Idealism with realism thrown in, but what choice is there when I am voting alone. Come on board - make a change - what is there to loose. United we stand, divided we fall.

Don't know if i posted this before, worth doing again

Society shows us what we are, solitude tells us what we should be!

Another 2 cents worth from LIS

FanQ4listening

[Guest]

I think you have a point there LIS. Leaders are a BIG problem, though I can't see a lot of distinction from one country to another, they all look like scumbags to me. Seems to me the problem is that leaders are always people who desire and seek power; exactly the kind of people you don't need at the helm. Democracy doesn't help much though it tends to stop the problem escalating too much.

Maybe we need new ways of picking leaders. A very knotty problem. An ideal system would probably be based on aptitude, regardless of desire to rule. But that's not going to get implemented overnight.

Next for the chop has to be religion. This is the cause of most war and hatred in this world, and provides a ready excuse for leaders to do whatever they fancy ("God told me to do it!" - Bush & Blair) which supercedes rationality, morality, due process, or any other considerations. But that's not what's got me going today. Oh no. Look no further than this topic! Bociniki thinks all human beings are inherently evil. Even Duh Puck supports this. Come on, guys! Don't you realise that this stuff is just there to make you believe you need religion? You want to be good people and you think you need religion to help you do it. Remember, YOU want to be good people. What does that tell you about people?

The problem with this sort of viewpoint is, not only does it serve to perpetuate religion, but it also creates a really negative view of humanity. Even worse, you think that nobody can change anything for the better and we just need to sit and wait for God to sort it all out. It aint gonna happen, guys. If we (humankind, that is) don't sort out our problems nobody's going to do it for us. We need to stop abdicating responsibility, it gets us nowhere.

So what to do? Well, I support a total separation of church and state (which includes schools). I respect people's right to believe whatever they want, but draw the line at my taxes being used to fund organisations who propagate superstitious nonsense. It's time we started treating religion with the respect it deserves (not a lot).

[Guest]

I will have to ask my question a third time since nobody has yet answered it. How did the leaders get bad if they were good to start out with? You can't just say "Society did it" because where did the bad society come from? Once again Where did evil come from if people are basically good?

[Guest]

I will have to ask my question a third time since nobody has yet answered it. How did the leaders get bad if they were good to start out with? You can't just say "Society did it" because where did the bad society come from? Once again Where did evil come from if people are basically good?

It's not quite as simple as people being good or evil. That's just in films. Even leaders are not evil people, they are just people who get off on power. They end up in positions of power because they are the ones who want it most. "Evil" is not a concept I believe in. Sometimes people do stupid things, selfish things, misguided things, and so on. Is that evil? There are all sorts of people in the world who do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. True enough, some people are bitter, jealous, intolerant, inconsiderate and so on, but for the most part they were not born that way. Our past experiences and beliefs cause most of this. Perhaps some people are genetically inclined to behave badly, but in general we all have the potential to be good to each other. Upbringing has a lot to do with it.

[Guest]

I will have to ask my question a third time since nobody has yet answered it. Where did evil come from if people are basically good?

Sorry Bociniki, I don't have all the answers (yet),

Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely... Don't ask me why, it would'nt corrupt me, I make sure the police are policed and the judges are judged. Take no chances.

I won't be taking the view that an omnipresent entity has control, and can make what ever it want's happen. So WE have to take responsibilities for actions. Sitting back and doin nothing is not my way of getting the job done! Stand up and be counted or watch from the sidelines. Decide to be part of it or not, it's up to you. Pls don't expect a humble too have all the answers..

Gaffiti....

When god made man -

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.she was only joking!

[unreality]

Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely... Don't ask me why, it wouldn't corrupt me

Yes, power corrupts. of course it does

but saying absolute power absolutely corrupts and then saying that it wouldn't corrupt you is foolish. So you're special somehow?

you basically said "Power absolutely corrupts everyone- except me of course."

Explain why power wouldn't corrupt you, please, and I'll believe you

[Guest]

Yes, power corrupts. of course it does

but saying absolute power absolutely corrupts and then saying that it wouldn't corrupt you is foolish. So you're special somehow?

you basically said "Power absolutely corrupts everyone- except me of course."

Explain why power wouldn't corrupt you, please, and I'll believe you

Maybe power only corrupts those who want it?

[Guest]

you basically said "Power absolutely corrupts everyone- except me of course."

Explain why power wouldn't corrupt you, please, and I'll believe you

I used an old expression to highlight a point. It is a case of "if the cap fits, ware it". Not to apply it to EVERYONE that I don't know.

If you believe me or not Unreality is between you and your conscience - not you and me. Draw your own conclusion. Keep it to yourself pls. I have nothing I wish to prove. Don't read it unless you want to know me a little better.

Things that I am proud of

I don't abuse my privileges. I have put fuel in the company car when I used it privately with permission. I don't hide my private income from the tax man and I was brought up to be a 'Good Samaritan'. Further I handed in ALL wallets, phones, PDAs etc when they were left in my car while chauffeuring during 1999-2004. I ran a call centre and refused a car because I lived so close to the office (10 min walk). I'll be honest to the point where I own up to a fault/mistake before it is found out. It's the best way to keep you honest (my opinion).

I quit my business and recieve a small income from it - all old debt's due, ($40,000), are being collected and given to charity.

Things I am not proud of.

Stole a pack of sweets when 1 was 9, found a ten shiiling note ($1) when I was ten and spent it all on myself. (now I put the money in charity boxs). And climbed over a wall when I was 15 to checkout some ald church ruins - had a serious wound from a dog bite for ir, poor animal was put down (that's the bit I'm least thrilled about).

I would not be asking for the power or trying for power - if it fell upon me I would make sure I had someone to watch over me to give assurance. I believe in an open book/door policy. Deceit and secrets are non productive, takes all the pressure off and saves a lot of money.

"Oh what a wicked web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".

I can keep a secret - it's all the people I tell that can't!

[Guest]

If you believe me or not Unreality is between you and your conscience - not you and me.

His conscience wants to believe what is proven

because it is you that he was responding to

he wants his proof for you

so if you want to bring Unrealities conscience into this

then it's between the three of you, Unreality, his conscience, but, most importantly, you.

I would not be asking for the power or trying for power - if it fell upon me I would make sure I had someone to watch over me to give assurance. I believe in an open book/door policy. Deceit and secrets are non productive, takes all the pressure off and saves a lot of money.

the point is that power corrupts

power can't corrupt someone who is allready corrupt

so it would make you corrupt, whether you think so or not

or the old saying is just a tad off, because it didn't know about this superior being who is immune to such things

[Guest]

His conscience wants to believe what is proven

because it is you that he was responding to

he wants his proof for you

so if you want to bring Unrealities conscience into this

then it's between the three of you, Unreality, his conscience, but, most importantly, you.

Well as far as I am concerned Unreality 's belief is HIS belief. Right or wrong it's his.

the point is that power corrupts

so it would make you corrupt, whether you think so or not

or the old saying is just a tad off, because it didn't know about this superior being who is immune to such things

No it would not make me corrupt, would it make you corrupt Ploper?

If I was in such a powerful position the first thing I would do would be to run by coalition - It's far too much for one person, balance is required. Thus I would not have absoloute power.

Your right the expression needs modification - the word I can would be better don't you think?

"Call me anything you like - but don't call me early"

[Guest]

Those with a strong desire for power are pretty twisted to begin with. Give them what they want and then put them under constant threat of losing it, you're going to get some sick results. That's our leaders, bless 'em.

[Guest]

If only it was as simple as making this universal code. I could say my code is for all to do no harm to others. But, I would immediately be willing to break my own code, even to the point of a death penalty, if someone committed murder. Seems justified to me. But, I have broken my own code in its purest definition of doing no harm to others.

I have my own core beliefs of right and wrong. My goal is to be a person I can be happy with and lie down and sleep peacefully with at night. But, who gets to decide the "right" and "wrong"? I can't see this universal ruling by a consensus.

[Guest]

I have my own core beliefs of right and wrong. My goal is to be a person I can be happy with and lie down and sleep peacefully with at night. But, who gets to decide the "right" and "wrong"? I can't see this universal ruling by a consensus.

You've inspired me to start a new topic!

Morality: What's that all about then?

[Guest]

You've inspired me to start a new topic!

Morality: What's that all about then?

I just posted on it. At the risk of being corny, AND showing my age. I live by the Ricky Nelson "Garden Party" rule of life....you can't please everyone so you gotta please yourself!

[Guest]

I live by the Ricky Nelson "Garden Party" rule of life....you can't please everyone so you gotta please yourself!

Don't we all when it comes down to tv channels and music (the simple things in life), but there are issues that do not suit everybody. Playing your music so ;oudly that it intrudes into other peoples peace.

[Guest]

Well as far as I am concerned Unreality 's belief is HIS belief. Right or wrong it's his.

but you can influence it

[Guest]

but you can influence it

Maybe I can, but it's not my wish, we all make choices, or we can not choose - wait and see perhaps. I have no wish to influence anyone in their choices. They will I hope use good judgement and make informed choices.

I guess by being in the debate there is some influence, but I think Unreality knows his own mind as do you.

[Guest]

Don't we all when it comes down to tv channels and music (the simple things in life), but there are issues that do not suit everybody. Playing your music so ;oudly that it intrudes into other peoples peace.

But, how loud does it have to play to intrude? And, who decides that?

[Guest]

Well, it can be decided by arbitration, besides headphones can be a very personal way of bursting just your own eardrums.

Do you like to give it large with the music Emeraldcity.

[Guest]

and make informed choices.

okay then, inform him