plasmid

The whole "something akin to afterlife" thing is not just an attraction to win converts, it's also the biggest thing we have to drive people to be good and productive members of society. The egg parable is an attempt to get the morality message across, but the argument that you can contribute to something great by being good and faithful would likely ring hollow with most people if they know that they're not going to be able to appreciate the fruits of their work in any way. If you tell the masses that their reward for being noble and altruistic is that they get to harmonize with the Essence, and harmonization is something that they experience in this lifetime rather than in an afterlife or some other sort of existence or consciousness, then people would be able to say "I've been good and supposedly harmonized with the Essence, but I don't feel any different. I think I've been played for a chump. Screw this, I'm gonna go ahead and be evil and enjoy my ill-gotten loot." The karma concepts that we were kicking around earlier (saying that the universe is just built in such a way that good and productive people get rewarded while the blasphemous and evil suffer) wouldn't hold water with someone who perceives that the world is unjust, unless there were something beyond the current life. Allowing people to believe in some sort of afterlife or another state of consciousness or something, but telling them outright that it's only an approximation of reality that's useful for guiding your actions (so it's still technically true), still seems to me like the best alternative so far. I don't think we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot too much with it: yes it's deceitful, and would probably cause resistance when people figure out how consciousness works (hopefully not much since everyone knows it's only an approximation; the dogma would be designed to adapt), but that doesn't really seem like a very big price to pay. It's still deceitful and should be avoided if possible, but how else do we convince people to be good when it's not in their own self interest? You're worried about being able to win female converts? Have you forgotten that I'm in on this? Hey, what're you laughing at??!??!

If you don't like humans setting religious doctrines, how do you feel about the Council of Rome in 382 where the Damasine List was established (Wikipedia link) or the Council of Carthage in 397 (Wikipedia link)? This Wikipedia link gives a bit more background on the whole process. I admit, I had been under the impression that it was actually done at the Council of Nicaea in 325 until I looked it up, but I guess you learn something new every day. He's referring to this thread. Apparently it's sacrilicious.

Were we not gonna keep afterlife / eternal life around even as a dumbed-down explanation of how the Essence works and why we're supposed to be good, including a warning that it's only an approximation of how things really work in case scientists figure out consciousness and prove there's no afterlife? If I were one of the masses and you were trying to push a religion on me that didn't have an afterlife, I'd be like "Hey, dude, where's the afterlife? This is a religion, right? C'mon, I'm a mass, appease me! I don't wanna bust my hump for an unfair world and then get screwed in the end."

Looks like octopuppy covered the unifying principle. It would admittedly be a loose confederation, even more so than the various denominations of Christianity. While I don't know all that much about UU, one thing that (I think) is different is the disavowment of a god that can speak directly to you and the hand-in-hand sheer vagueness of the Essence. The Essence is admittedly quite a hazy concept, and its inherent haziness can be used to combat silly doctrine. For some reason, no one ever seems to argue with Christians who claim that the Bible supports their views by saying "I'm not questioning the Bible, I'm questioning your interpretation of it." For someone who believes that the Bible is the indisputable word of God, that sounds to me like it would be a more effective argument (or at least more likely to get them to start thinking a bit) than to say "Science disagrees" or "That flies in the face of reason" which they would simply brush off because of their beliefs. If it's well known that the Essence is largely beyond human understanding, then we can make much more frequent and effective use of uncertainty to question doctrine and (one would hope) promote the view that the true nature of the Essence must be consistent with the reality as we see it, and it's much easier and more reliable to use scientific observations to shape our understanding of the Essence than vice-versa. I think we ought to put that into a parable. And again I don't know to what degree beliefs typically face such scrutiny in UU, so if it is quite allowable for people to say "That belief doesn't seem like it could be right because of X, Y, & Z" and expect to be listened to, then the practical difference might be minimal. While it might seem quite inane to have Uberfaith run by non-believers, one might counter by questioning whether most religions in the world are in fact run by people who are, if not flat out non-believers, at least making their leadership decisions with more calculating shrewdness than faith in divine guidance. Regardless, one of the theoretical advantages of doing it Uberfaith's way is that you don't have a small oligarchy running the religion, which seems more prone to corruption and whose main concern is promoting its own growth and persistence whether or not it's in the best interest of the community or even the everyday churchgoer. (The best example I can recount of this was when I was a kid being raised as a Jehovah's Witness: they had a policy of discouraging college attendance because it was apparently something that tended to drive people out of the faith. Go figure.) Instead it's run by entire communities whose numbers would preclude corruption and whose goal (one would hope) is to do what's in the best interest of the community. The non-believers would still have a desire to preserve and promote Uberfaith: it's certainly the most amenable religion to them by far, but this would be secondary to pursuing the community's best interests.

And Obama and his followers did cross the lands on their pilgrimage. And on the day of St. Patrick, they entered into a county which was dry. There was much moaning and wailing, and Obama stood before his followers and instructed them: "It is heinous that we on this night are in a dry county. But weep not; instead go forth and bring me water, the purest that you can find, so it may be blessed for this night." His followers went forth to do as he commanded. Many sought the nearby ocean and returned with brine, but a faithful few journeyed far to a freshwater stream and returned with water most pure. When they all had gathered before the dramaless one, he spoke a benediction, and behold! Those who had with them brine found that it had become Bud Light. On that most holy night they did party and they did get buzzed, albeit on swill, and did suffer under the hangover. But those faithful few who brought back water most pure, behold!, they were blessed with Guiness. And they enjoyed their drink, and were not the least bit groggy the following morning. And Barack spoke: "Listen, before thou art hammered, hear this about the Essence. While its ways are yet beyond the grasp of humanity to understand in full, certain of its aspects may be understood in part. Your actions have far reaching impacts – they influence the Essence itself, and so the Essence influences your existence." The revelers did not understand his words, and asked "Do you mean that we control the Essence?" and "Is the essence controlling our actions?" On hearing this, Obama explained in a simpler way so that they might at least understand how to act "No. Although imprecise, you can imagine something like an eternal life to help you understand how to act. Your actions here in this life will influence your eternal life. Just as with this booze, if you toil and perform great accomplishments like those who brought pure water, your eternal life will rock like this Guiness. If you simply believe in Uberfaith but have no accomplishments like those who brought the nearby brine, then your eternal life will be like mere Bud Light." And although not fully aware of the nature of the Essence, the followers understood at this simple level and cried "Amen" and became wasted. A follower approached him and asked: "When thou leave us, and we find ourselves among women chopped into many pieces, how shall we know which piece to choose?" And Obama revealed: "This night, you have seen your charge. Go forth, and accomplish great things to harmonize with the Essence. Those which drive you to do so, they are your friends. Those which tell you to relax, they will bring you nothing better than mediocrity. Those which tell you to understand the world, they will bring you great things. Those which mock the wise, they will not enjoy the fruits of those whose efforts they spurn. Those which despise their fellow man, by God above they will be despised, and so they will not get plasma screen TVs in their eternal life but will get 16 inch sets, and they will have to watch the commercials." Barack sat down to eat lunch at an outdoor table, and a young child recognized him and ran to him saying "Barack! I want to follow you, I want to be in Uberfaith! We can go forth and convert all we see to Uberfaith, we shall sow the seed of a denomination that will outstrip all others and leave no one in doubt!" At this, Barack became uneasy. He saw that there was a beauty parlor across the street, and he said to the young child "Look forth, at that woman leaving the beauty parlor. Do you see her hair?" The child looked and saw a woman with a bouffant most worthy of ridicule, and as he was drinking milk, he did laugh with such vigor that it issued forth from his nose. "Barack, that woman's appearance is worthy of ridicule. Why would a woman wear such a hairstyle?" And he continued to watch, and the woman met with some of her friends. And her friends did not say unto her what an a** she appeared, but instead complemented her appearance. Barack spoke to the child "That woman makes herself look as a fool because she does not know better. Her friends think as she does, and so cannot tell that her appearance is foolish. If all people think alike, they will all fall into the same foolish traps. That is why it is important to have many different denominations, so that not all think alike. That is also why it is important that there be others still who do not believe in Uberfaith at all, for as long as they seek to improve humanity they will also contribute to the Essence in ways that we might not. The people who are most likely to spark discord with the Essence are those who claim false gods that are but figments of their imagination, for blind faith leads to blind actions and these can lead to ruin." And the child understood that not all were meant to think the same way, and from that day forth dreamed of a smaller denomination that would seek advice from others and from non-believers so it would not become a laughing stock.

That is a really good answer. The "cosmic plane" clue pointing towards paddle ball instead isn't a very strong one, so if you had gotten that answer in first I would probably have just lied and said "that's it!" So tough to make sure the answers are unique.

Sneffels got this one, welcome to Brainden! One of the customs on the forum is to hide answers with spoilers (using the "Insert: Spoiler" box on the left of the editor). Not one that I'm particularly concerned about, but some people prefer to have the answer hidden if they're reading the riddle for the first time.

Hmmm, it seems the "apple" guesses were coming from the eighth line. Correct interpretation of that clue requires a scientific factoid. Edit: and I'm not sure how an apple would fit with the cataclysms and cyclic agony and a few other clues

A globe I am, who flies through empty space Attractive forces pull me to retain A dim red star that's here to light your face While traveling back toward the cosmic plane My time is marked in neither days nor years But cataclysms hardly ever missed Just listen, and its echos you can hear (Oh yes, in fact it's true, you physicist) My orbit brings a cyclic agony And boredom is a curse that leaves me damned Should I continue suff'ring from the tree? My fate is held within your very hand If only I could break this dreadful bond Perhaps string theory could help me abscond

Perl seems like a good place to start. Not only is it pretty easy to get started with, but it's still pretty flexible and reasonably powerful (not in terms of graphics or user interface by any means, but in terms of everything from computations to file handling). And it's pretty similar to C, so it would be an easier switch if the time does come. If you have a Mac or Unix or Linux machine, Perl will already be installed and you can just start using it from the command line. If you're using a Windows box it doesn't come pre-installed. I suggest downloading ActivePerl (it's free, you don't need any sort of professional version or anything), and once you've installed it you'll have Perl on your system. It installs stuff like a Perl Package Manager, but you will never need to use it, you can just run perl code from the command line. To write a program, open Notepad (or whatever basic text editor you prefer) and start typing the source code. To make sure you've got Perl installed correctly, you could try saving this simple program #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; print "Hello, world"; When you're done, save it in plain text format as hello.pl somewhere. To run the program, open a command line window on whatever system you're using, go to the directory where you saved it, and type "perl hello.pl" and it should run. It will just print "Hello, world" right underneath and then give you a new command prompt. As far as where to go to learn how to program in Perl, you could try going to http://www.perl.org/books/beginning-perl/ where you can get all the pdfs for each chapter of the Beginning Perl book. No need to go out and buy a book if that one does the job for ya; if you finish it, you would probably only need to go to perl.org for command syntax reference stuff from there on out.

BOOYEAH! HAIKU RIDDLE'S BACK!

I'd never heard of the FSM before. They seriously sent that to the Kansas board of education? Ok, we can change the paths into something more along those lines. That would also remove the fears that drove me to want periodic meetings to decide on the directions the paths would take, so that bit of government can go as well. Do you think we need anything else in its place as a way to give people a sense of purpose in their lives, or would harmony with the Essence be pretty much the one driving principle? As important as I think education is (IMO it should be the top priority of any institution that proposes to advance humanity) I agree with octopuppy's point that it's better not to have money going through Uberfaith unnecessarily; that would just breed corruption and waste. The followers can donate directly to secular schools and cut out the middleman... even though I don't completely trust the secular schools either. If we're not going to have Uberfaith running any schools because it would give them too much potential for abuse, I suppose we also need to get rid of any doctrine that has to do with sending an uberarmy out to smite the wicked. As a practical matter, it is a bit unrealistic to have storm troopers dispensing justice from the barrels of their rifles these days. Fine, we'll have to convert the heathen with more humane tactics. That includes threats of hellfire, unrelenting nagging by our followers to convert, all sorts of peer pressure and social isolation, psychological warfare tactics and the such. Future generations might condemn it, but you gotta do what you gotta do. As for keeping the individual denominations in line without holy wars, do you think it would be enough to have each denomination keep a list of all other denominations that it considers to be part of "true Uberfaith" and treat any that it believes are sinners like a heretical group? There might be squabbles and schisms where pairs of denominations excommunicate each other, but it as long as everyone keeps their blacklists short, only the egregiously naughty ones should get affected significantly. No one would want to go to a denomination that isn't respected by any of the others. All this "godless religion" and karma and Essence stuff is really starting to sound pretty Buddhist. Not that it's a bad thing. Just a little surprising that the pursuit of our design goals has brought us so close to something that already exists. But with a concept like the Essence that can potentially be interpreted pretty wildly, it becomes even more important to say repeatedly and without self-contradiction that the way to achieve oneness with the Essence is through actions that benefit humanity, and make sure that the followers don't fool themselves into pursuing oneness by becoming total meditating vegetables or anything. Balance is key. Sounds like a fable is in order. I think the solution we're working toward now takes care of the issues from octopuppy's earlier post. The most holy doctrine has been revamped quite a bit to bring it in line with what we've discussed so far, and streamlined as George Carlin the wise suggests. I'll see what you think of this as the basis for Uberfaith. If it seems all right, we can concentrate on getting a nice set of parables that carry the message and make good moralistic bedtime stories for the kids (and adults who think like kids). Of course, mine's heresy now At some point I'll have to go back and change it appropriately. Most Holy Doctrine The Essence that permeates all things has subtle yet profound effects that shall not herein be fully explained. In order to help understand the Essence as it applies to human lives, though, it is useful to think of concepts such as karma and eternal life. Karma may be earned with the following acts: Help others, be generous, be reliable. Do not harm others, steal, or lie. Do not place your faith in false gods. Find something that you're good at that will benefit society and do it. Learn throughout your childhood, and fulfill your potential as an adult. The nature of your eternal life will be determined by your karma. Believers in false gods suffer in hell. Those who believe but lack karma will have modest contentment. Those whose karma is great will enjoy utter bliss. It is fit that there be many denominations of Uberfaith, for not all people are alike, and diversity helps humanity flourish. The denominations shall each have their own customs and ways of harmonizing with the Essence. Sincere proponents of the Essence are welcome, but those that falsely claim Uberfaith shall be decried by the other denominations and spurned as heretics. As it is important for people to each find their unique role in the harmony of the Essence, it is fit for them to visit other denominations from time to time and experience their ways, and thus find their place in the world. As it is important to have many denominations, so it is important to have people outside Uberfaith who are most fit to view it objectively and dispassionately. These outsiders that understand the world through mankind's endeavors are not to be despised but welcomed, for they offer a unique perspective and often seek to advance humanity as the followers do. But beware those outsiders that cling to ideas of gods, for they worship illusions of their imaginations that may guide them to decay. Such people should be brought into the Uberfaith to understand how to harmonize with the Essence. The stuff about not being able to buy and sell karma like indulgences can go into a parable. So can the importance of promoting education. And we may need to give some guidelines in Uberdoctrine of what constitutes an offense bad enough to warrant excommunication. Not sure what the uberchurches should be called. Rendezvous sounds kinda sexy though.

Hmm, gladiator fights, huh? Maybe more like Jedi fights if they call for divine intervention to win. They might be fun to have, but I wouldn't want the faithful to go picking denominations based on them. Ultimately they'll have to live or die by attracting members, which is why I think it's so important that people go check out different denominations from time to time and see how they stack up. Of course, that doesn't mean that we CAN'T have Jedi fights by any means. Or comedy slam fests. The pathways that unreality laid out seem pretty good to me. I have a little bit of reservation about the path of Nature. While undoubtedly beneficial if done wisely, I fear what would happen if the most rabid environmentalists suddenly got a divine mandate for their work. I wouldn't enjoy having someone bust into my lab to liberate all of my drosophila. On the other hand, if Uberfaith were running the show, a bit of oversight might actually help to bring such delinquency under control and focus people toward more productive endeavors. It probably is better for Uberfaith to endorse it rather than shy away just because a few people go overboard, but I'd still like a leadership of people who are not themselves overly zealous to make sure the followers don't get nutty. Perhaps guidelines for each of the paths could be decided at periodic meetings of the various denominations. As for education, I think I'd be more liberal with allowing Uberfaith based education than either of you guys. If Uberfaith stays out of education, then education will continue to be provided by the states. I'm not sure which option I mistrust less. While affluent countries might be better off without it, poorer ones would probably love to send their kids to ubergarden, and the kiddos might get a better education there, free of state propaganda. Also, since Uberfaith is going to allow and even encourage non-believers, it seems quite possible to stipulate that the education they provide should be one that's suitable for an unbeliever as well as a follower. I'd be inclined to allow private and public schools to co-exist. But if you'd prefer to limit Uberfaith to donating to secular schools, that'd be fine too. Next, if people do start to understand consciousness on a scientific level, and if even the afterlife has to abide by scientific rules (which we don't know about while designing Uberfaith), then we've got a couple of options. One would be to try to finesse the issue away. Throughout the doctrine, we never actually say what happens when you die. We say that such knowledge ought not to be fully divulged at this time. But, in order to help you live your life properly, we're dumbing it down for you a bit. You should live your life as if there is an afterlife where you will be rewarded in proportion to what you accomplish. We never say that there is an afterlife, and we never say there isn't. The faithful can believe what they want, but they will have no scripture to quote to back it up. There might nevertheless be some "turbulence" (to use a euphemism) when the absence of an afterlife is proven, but I can't imagine a much better approach right now. The other option like unreality said would be to get rid of the afterlife doctrine entirely. I'm still hesitant to do that right now. Since we're about to kill off God, we might want to leave the afterlife idea intact to some degree so Uberfaith looks and smells at least a little bit like a religion. After all, the whole point is to pull converts toward Uberfaith and keep them away from the more dangerous stuff. We (people designing Uberfaith) might be perfectly content with the one life we've got now, but remember that we're designing something for the people who just have to have a religion in their lives, and Uberfaith will have built-in tolerance anyway for complete non-believers who don't need to play along with the charade. And God is dead. I would avoid making manicotti Gods of the Paths, for I might eat them. This brings up a sticky point, though. If there's no God, and if we're hesitant to say even exactly what the afterlife is, then how is Uberfaith a religion? What sort of divine power do we have that should make people follow us (especially if we don't get Chuck Norris)? Or are we going to try to set up something like a religion but not based on the divine right to preach? It would be a cultural breakthrough if it worked, but it would be a risky move. It's not a question we need to address right now, especially if Grayven might be able to pull some hocus-pocus with Revelations, but it's something to keep in mind. On to some more of the topics posted here. Since we've just killed off God, I guess we're going to have to water down the idea of a god within everyone that can be prayed to for some divine adrenaline. That's fine. We can still talk within the doctrine about ways to pick yourself up and give yourself a boost in order to accomplish stuff. Maybe a nice fable about someone who's getting a beatdown in the course of his uberduties. Let's say he's the only volunteer firefighter in a tiny town and he's putting out a fire in a house to make things exciting. He's doing his thing and suddenly notices that there's a couple of kids trapped inside. Not seeing any way to run in and save them, in desperation, he initially falls back on the old pagan traditions of praying to God. He prays three times, but after each prayer he's just wasted a bunch of time without saving the kids, and the fire has just gotten worse. Eventually someone comes by and busts his balls about it, and the hero of the story finally cuts the crap and makes a judgment call: it's too dangerous to go inside, so he does his best to extinguish a path from the outside to the kids and then goes in and saves them without any divine help. Next: how to handle non-believers. It seems like non-belief should be treated almost like being part of Uberfaith, but fulfilling a role that must be played by someone who is not attached to any denomination. I think you could easily use some shaky logic and mixed metaphors to say stuff like: "The most difficult person for you to judge in comparison to others is yourself. This is true of people, and it is true of denominations. Therefore, it is important to have people outside of any denomination observe you, so that you might know yourself." It only makes since if you don't think about it very hard. Fortunately, that should be good enough. Non-believers get treated essentially like another denomination within Uberfaith. Hmm, one point brought up by octopuppy that I hadn't thought very much about: using karma or a sense that God will take revenge so you don't have to. That's getting kind of watered down now that we've gotten rid of God and are skirting some on the afterlife. Maybe that calls for another fable. The Most Holy Uberfaith Doctrine (with the latest revisions underlined) - People should live as if there is an afterlife. We don't explicitly say what happens when you die, we just provide the afterlife as a useful conceptual tool to help guide how you should live now. How much you enjoy the "afterlife" depends on how much good you do in this life. Believers in false gods will go to hell. Those who do nothing more than believe will get an afterlife of modest contentment. Those who spark a major advancement in humanity will walk on streets of gold. [importance level 1: This must be stated unambiguously many times and not contradicted. No firm promises of an actual afterlife are to be made.] - There is some sort of God that personally cares about you and is happy to see when you're happy. Unfortunately, Godly duties prevent him from always acting to ensure your happiness. He does have a universe to run after all, and that's gotta take priority. Don't bother praying to him to ask him for stuff, that'll just piss him off. But he's cool to chit-chat with. And he still wuvs you. [importance level 5: Probably will not mention it in doctrine, just leave it open as a possibility for denominations to consider. May be stricken entirely without opposition from me.] - Karma is not transferable from one person to another. You cannot buy indulgences. [importance level 3: May be overridden by denominations if you have a relative on their deathbed and you want to do something in their name to give them a better afterlife. We can intentionally leave a loophole that denominations can exploit for this particular purpose. But definitely never works with strangers on the street offering to sell karma.] - Help others, be generous, be reliable. Do not harm others, steal, or lie. Find something that you're good at that will benefit society and do it. Be a good student as a kid. Fulfill your potential as an adult. [importance level 2: Say it a few times and give a nice illustrative story. Do not contradict. Not much wiggle room for denominations to interpret. They can argue over the relative benefit brought by different professions if they wish.] - Follow the paths as your interests and abilities are geared: Enlightenment, Knowledge, Randomness, Humanity, Uberkarma, Nature, Essencius, and Mind. Heeding the advice of the wise for guidance on how to carry this out. [importance level 2: Just because I don't completely trust the Nature guys yet.] - Set out from time to time (say every 5 years or so) and check out other denominations. [importance level 1: Denominations may not override this, for obvious reasons. It therefore must be stated unambiguously and repeatedly. Do not contradict. Allow holy war against any denominations that fail to comply.] - Convert or smite all heretics who worship anything but Uberfaith. As for people who don't believe any religion at all, and who don't try to convert others towards heretical faiths, they should be tolerated and may be part of the ubercommunity and invited to attend the uberkeggers. Science is not an abhorrent heretical faith. Conversion may be attempted on unbelievers, but no more than once a year. [importance level 1.] - Denominations must be wiped from the earth if they prove naughty with the following acts: Failure to allow followers to experience other denominations. Failure to eradicate heresy within itself. Persecuting nonbelievers. Outright bribery of its leadership. [importance level 2: War is a big step. You can try diplomacy and sanctions for a little while. But don't become an empty-sacked UN.] - Include a nice fable about the evils of praying to God which leads to complacency, and the importance of doing stuff on your own. [importance level 3: If any anal-retentive denominations don't want to accept fables without historical proof then they can go ahead and deny it. We can present it as hearsay in the doctrine to accommodate them. But they're missing out.] - Non-believers are to be treated as if they were another denomination within Uberfaith. In fact, anyone in the Uberfaith hierarchy who coordinates the efforts of the various denominations (virtually any high office) cannot belong to any denomination and must be a non-believer. (I realize that those two statements are self-contradictory, but you know what I mean, and this IS a religion after all.) [importance level 1.] - Include a fable about not losing your cool and trying to take revenge on people. Maybe a Batman movie remake with an appropriate moral. [importance level 4: You can still pick a fight with another guy if he's hitting on your girl.] Denominations must specify examples of deeds that win you good and bad karma as the times dictate. Denominations must specify whether or not there's a god, and what sort of beast it is. Denominations must specify how you achieve spiritual fulfillment, particularly, what types of canonical Uberfaith paths they favor. Practical more so than doctrinal matters: The denominations shall convene from time to time (every 5-10 years or so) and come up with guidelines on the general directions that each of the paths should take. These guidelines are not binding (for no thoughts should be outlawed except outright heresy) but actions in accord with the guidelines should be encouraged while those that go against them should be thoroughly questioned by the participants before proceeding. Uberfaith may provide for the education of the populace by contributing to secular, state-run schools. Only if the state is hopelessly corrupt or otherwise unable to educate the populace, Uberfaith may run schools that are suitable for non-believers. There shall be Jedi fights and comedy slam fests, for they amuse me.

Oh, no no no. You're not destined for the firey bowels of hell. That would be ridiculous, for you are a wise and thoughtful soul. Once Uberfaith is established, someone with an incisive intellect such as yours will doubtless put it to the test, and you will soon find its bountiful richness refreshing. It inherently compels people to go out and accomplish great things, so all of the human accomplishments that you will find around you will be a testament to Uberfaith. But ultimately, the best way to make up your mind is to shed skepticism and see what the excitement in the ubercommunity is all about. Show up to an uberchurch. Develop a sound mind inside a sound body (for some denominations) or experience spirituality through appreciation of the arts which thereby connects you to the deep continuous consciousness of human society (for others) or become more in touch with those around you by meeting each Sunday to discuss in excruciating detail everything that happened to you over the previous week and how it made you feel (more for the women, but maybe you'll like it). If you do make a good faith effort to join the flock but you're put off by any aspect of the experience, well, you probably just didn't find the denomination that suits you right off the bat. In that case you should keep looking until you find the right one. We hope to have the Uber-Belief-O-Matic up and running to help you in your denominational selection, but in the meantime I'm sure the denominations will be happy to provide informative pamphlets that hit the high points. Someone as open minded and thoughtful and dedicated to finding the truth as yourself will surely find fulfillment in Uberfaith if you give it a chance.

lol, no, I just thought it might be a riddle about how tough it can be to write riddles.

We're not QUITE done yet, though. We still have one more picture coming: number zero in the series. I'll post the picture that inspired that when we're all done.

Glad you went back and summarized the big points of the thread, octopuppy. I'll leave this link to it up in my messages while we're sorting it out. That's be too much for me to bite off all at one time, but for now I'll start at the top. Comfort for the masses has typically been done by saying that "Jesus loves you" "God has a master plan (although his ways are mysterious)" "You will get to live forever in heaven" "You can atone for sins by paying indulgences (or confessing, depending on your era)" and stories like Job. Since it sounds like one of the pillars of Uberfaith will be that there is an afterlife and the quality of the afterlife depends on how awesome you are in this life, our main way of bringing comfort can be by saying that you can always atone for past sins (at least partially) or do things to make your afterlife better if you've been dealt a bum hand in this one. "Jesus loves you" seems harmless enough for those who are desperate for something, but I have some misgivings both about introducing unnecessary supernatural stuff and about giving people gratification too easily. If it's included at all, it should not be the major focus. No confessions. No paying indulgences. No story of Job. Moral guidance must go hand-in-hand with stories about an afterlife that reflects how moral you were in the current life. There just seems to be no way around that logic (even considering the fact that we are designing a religion). Much of this can be stipulated by the denominations I think, but some principles may be worth mentioning in codified doctrine for all of Uberfaith. Do not harm other people, do not steal their stuff, do not lie to them. Gain karma by helping people out, being generous, and being reliable. Karma can be won by finding a useful role to fill in society, be it anything from acting as a professional to raising a family. When it comes to stuff like running massive Ponzi schemes, or using polluting fuels instead of solar power, etc., etc., that can be stipulated by the denominations given the times they live in. Purpose and direction. I think unreality can handle this one better than I can. I'm admittedly too science-centric to think that anything else could come close to it when it comes to advancing humanity. Encouraging spirituality is one of those things I keep forgetting about, but it's a big part of why people keep creating religions after all. This seems like the thing that could best be specified by each of the denominations; when it comes to "filling the void" by offering a religious experience, that's exactly what memetic competition could do best. I don't care too much about how people do this. If power yoga floats their boat, so be it. For the current world we live in, maybe it should involve getting some exercise every once it a while. But this I think will change as the times change. The only thing that I would codify is: it's important for people to visit other denominations from time to time and objectively judge them. That should be expected of every uberpeon, and definitely not frowned upon by any denomination. I think I've avoided most of the things that need to be avoided so far. One thing should be explicitly stated in doctrine, though. There are certain acts of corruption that should be intolerable by any respectable denomination and would spark holy war. One of which is failing to allow your followers to experience other denominations. Another would be harboring infidels without promptly converting or smiting them. They may be tolerated for a while when Uberfaith is just getting off the ground, but once you're in control there's no place for that sort of tolerance. So, to start codifying some doctrine... (you guys feel free to edit of course) - There is an afterlife. We don't explicitly say if it's another existence like this one, or if it's just a continuation of consciousness that happens after the body dies (denominations can squabble over that, and scientific advances may eventually rule out the second possibility). How much you enjoy the afterlife depends on how much good you do in this life. Believers in false gods will go to hell. Those who do nothing more than believe will get an afterlife of modest contentment. Those who spark a major advancement in humanity will walk on streets of gold. [importance level 1: This must be stated unambiguously many times and not contradicted.] - There is some sort of God that personally cares about you and is happy to see when you're happy. Unfortunately, Godly duties prevent him from always acting to ensure your happiness. He does have a universe to run after all, and that's gotta take priority. Don't bother praying to him to ask him for stuff, that'll just piss him off. But he's cool to chit-chat with. And he still wuvs you. [importance level 5: Probably will not mention it in doctrine, just leave it open as a possibility for denominations to consider. May be stricken entirely without opposition from me.] - Karma is not transferable from one person to another. You cannot buy indulgences. [importance level 3: May be overridden by denominations if you have a relative on their deathbed and you want to do something in their name to give them a better afterlife. But definitely never works with strangers on the street offering to sell karma.] - Help others, be generous, be reliable. Do not harm others, steal, or lie. Find something that you're good at that will benefit society and do it. Be a good student as a kid. Fulfill your potential as an adult. [importance level 2: Say it a few times and give a nice illustrative story. Do not contradict. Not much wiggle room for denominations to interpret. They can argue over the relative benefit brought by different professions if they wish.] - Unreality shall stipulate the paths to personal fulfillment. [importance level depends on how good the stuff he comes up with is.] - Set out from time to time (say every 5 years or so) and check out other denominations. [importance level 1: Denominations may not override this, for obvious reasons. It therefore must be stated unambiguously and repeatedly. Do not contradict. Allow holy war against any denominations that fail to comply.] - Convert or smite all heretics who worship anything but Uberfaith. As for people who don't believe any religion at all, and who don't try to convert others towards heretical faiths, they should be tolerated and may be part of the ubercommunity and invited to attend the uberkeggers. Science is not an abhorrent heretical faith. Conversion may be attempted on unbelievers, but no more than once a year. [importance level 1.] - Denominations must be wiped from the earth if they prove naughty with the following acts: Failure to allow followers to experience other denominations. Failure to eradicate heresy within itself. Persecuting nonbelievers. Outright bribery of its leadership. [importance level 2: War is a big step. You can try diplomacy and sanctions for a little while. But don't become an empty-sacked UN.] Denominations must specify: 1) Examples of deeds that win you good and bad karma as the times dictate. 2) Whether or not there's a god, and what sort of beast it is. 3) How you achieve spiritual fulfillment.

It looks like the Uberfaith route is pretty much set. Now we really just need the help of some creative writers to give us a good story. Preferably ones with better taste in beer than me... if even you guys are mocking me then I'd have some real trouble winning converts. Alas, I've led such a deprived life. But if we're going to be putting together the Third Testament, I propose that we ditch the time-worn medium of written word. That was fine back in the days when people had to rely on their imaginations, but we're far too advanced for that now. I say we make a blockbuster movie instead. Miracles? Are you kidding me? Who wants to hear about some guy driving demons out of lepers; we can have our messiah go out and kick the Terminator's butt if we want. Let's see if any of the other religions can top that! If we could get Chuck Norris to play in it, we'd have half the western world converted by opening night. So: If there are any script writers out there with interests in world domination, please post your resumes. You would be doing the world a great favor. I'm still having trouble coming up with good Philosophy stories. Better pipe up, unreality, or Uberfaith is gonna take off without ya.