174 replies to this topic

[Ice master]

Regardless of whether or whether not you believe in destiny,
it is important that you utilize your logic as frequently as possible.
Submission to the idea that destiny's plan is for you to remain in a chair for the duration of your life
seems quite unlikely. If this is what we were meant to do, then we would have died out as a species long ago.

[craigerstar]

OK. The statement is: Destiny (is) designed (as) a master plan. (That) defines everything that is to happen.
Destiny is an ideal & a copout.
1. "I believe in destiny", therefore any attempt that I make to accomplish any task is out of my control.
2. Why experience life with a continuing frustration of failures when it was "destiny" that ordained the enevitable?
3. Could I control "destiny" by considering every possible conclusion that "destiny" could reach?
4. Could I then be alert to all conclusions which come my way?
5. Could I then implement all conclusions by using a test strip and watching initial results.
6. Could I really be "DESTINY" and the actual power of my life and admit that it is I who am really responsible for "destiny?" Therefore it is I who am responsible for the failures as well as the successes that I experience in my life.
Conclusion: By this conclusion I am now a proud member of society. I can be productive without blaming destiny for all my failures. If I don't blame destiny for my failures, it goes that I can take pride in my successes.

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[Diane]

If destiny is what is 'meant to be' then every choice you make becomes destiny. That is the only definitive reality. Any other options, ie. changing your mind, trying to 'outwit' destiny, or over-think every decision by trying to 'beat' destiny becomes irrelevant.

So, whether you go to the doctor or not, ultimately if you believe there is a 'plan' for you then your final decision is what was 'planned' all along. The outcome would be considered 'destiny' no matter which end result were true. Your resulting health would not come into play, it would simply be the outcome of a decision you were meant to make.

Gee, I hope I didn't sound confusing there.

[bonanova]

Destiny and free will become paradoxical if and only if

[1] they both determine the outcome of events.
[2] they apply to the same event at the same time.

Clearly, two independent forces cannot each have their way
in the same matter [e.g. going to the doctor] at the same
time [today, at 10:00, the time of my appointment.]

Either [if Destiny has its way] I become simply an observer,
capable only of telling someone after the fact that I did [or didn't]
keep my appointment or I choose to keep my appointment
and am forced [lamely] into the supposition that [my then unknown]
Destiny must have been that I do so. Destiny and free will cannot
both be the deciding factor and be independent of each other.

What does that mean? One conclusion is that one or the other
simply does not exist. [At least] one of them is simply an illusion:
one that people discuss, but that owns no real affective power.

Usually at this point we cling to our free will and throw Destiny
out the window. But experience suggests that particular outcomes
seem to happen despite the choices of others to the contrary:
one might assert that Hitler was destined to fail, despite protracted
and horrendous [free] choices made, by many, to obtain his success.
This is the seemingly favorite way to invoke Destiny - something that
happens over an extended period of time, contrary to many free
choices [or other inanimate obstacles] to the contrary.

This is the point of [2] at the beginning of my post. Free choices and
Destiny can coexist if they to not apply to the same matter at the
same time. It might be my Destiny, born out of my underlying desire for
health, to recover from an illness even though I decide not to keep today's
appointment with the doctor. Eventually I will seek and get the help I need.

In this sense, free will applies to the microscopic decisions and strategies
I employ moment by moment, and can logically co-exist with a Destiny
which sees eventual outcomes -- outcomes that are outside my ability
directly to create. Coexistence is non paradoxical -- both can determine
certain outcomes -- if they each operate in their respective, disjoint arenas.

Finally, if one believes in an overpowering Destiny that applies to every
event in every arena, and if, in the face of that prospect, one simply gives
up an active role in life, becoming only its spectator, it can be accurately
said that one has so chosen.

A paradox of a different type.

[craigerstar]

In reply to bonanova, as the caveman would say on the commercial; Uh...What???
I really admire and have respect for the thought and time that bonanova put into the subject at hand. bonanova, you must have an IQ that reports the cup runnith over!. Thank you for the challange that I will enjoy disecting your quote.
-Craig
P.S. I won't tell anyone MY IQ but it is >119 and <121...That is why I enjoy the challanges of this site. Maybe my IQ will learn something!

[bonanova]

Thanks.

I love these things, too, and thoroughly enjoy this site.

- bn

[Sorax3]

This is way to easy ok destiny has a design for everybody right? But since we have free will whatever we do changes our destiny or keeps it the same, so if u didn't go to the doctor you wouldnt get better which would change destiny's design. Or it could get better but u'd have more money in your pocket changing destiny's design either way!

[poksao]

Destiny needs to be defined. If destiny is simply what is going to happen (a set future) then it will happen. Look at it from a different perspective. last week you broke your leg and went to the doctor. At the time, you had a choice whether or not to go. Now (a week after going), you no longer have a choice of whether or not to go last week because it already happened. If destiny is just an outside view of the time-line, you would not be able to change it.

It would be like remembering forward what is going to have happened.

If destiny is given to religious meaning, it would be determined on how that religion defines destiny as to whether it can be thwarted.

[Morganthegoose]

There is a joke...
"A man was stranded in the ocean on a piece of wood after his ship wrecked. A man came by in a boat and asked 'Do you need help?' 'No, God will save me.' the stranded man replied. Again came a man in a boat, and again the boat captian asked 'Do you need help?' 'No, God will save me.' A thrid boat came by and the same conversation took place and the man died. When he got to heaven he asked God 'Why didn't you save me?' And God replied 'I sent you three boats!'"
So I think your destiny is not set in stone and you may see a part of it. But if it says you will live and you go off and get cancer and say oh well my destiny said i was gonna live and he doesn't go to the doctore and he dies because he didn't try to make his destiny come true.

[rileyy]

IF THEN statements are always true.