[Guest]

My question is this: Since infinity has no beginning, and no end, and since God is eternal with no beginning, and no end, then when did he make, or even think about making the earth. I have faith, and believe in God, so is the answer simply that we are unable to comprehend it?

[Guest]

....so is the answer simply that we are unable to comprehend it?

ummm....yes

according to science (which I do), it was made billions of years ago.

according to the bible scholars (which are wrong, in my opinion, although I am a faithful Christian), it's only thousands of years old.

I guess God got tired of floating around in space all alone, so s/he created the big bang ("let there be light") which later started the earth, and some time later, when the climate was just right, God let animals/humans evolve and change into what we are today (free will/free destiny).

I guess s/he has a very hands-off approach to all of this, eh?

[Guest]

There are many who would disagree with your statements about "science" There is an awful lot of evidence for not evolving creation. For another, if in God's sight, all times are happening simultaneously, then perhaps to him, he is always creating the earth, always watching and working in the world, and always doing whatever will, in our time, will come after the earth is destroyed.

[Guest]

so this god can do everything, is everywhere, in every time, and cannot be taken with force, disease, trickery, temptation, anything?

*sigh* monogomy is so dull...

[Guest]

oh, but to actually focus on the question

the universe, and god, have no beginning, or end, according to the OP

but they do have things in between, right?

I mean, else there wouldn't be a time period for gods or universes

so I'll just assume there is

well, at some point in that "between" period, ya know, the window period that I guess we'll never stop going through

he must've created earth.

I just reread the question and I think I understand it wrong

whatever

[unreality]

You say infinity has no beginning and no end. You are wrong. There are many types of infinity. Infinity could start at 7 and go on forever. it has a beginning- but no end. There is also infinity of decimal numbers in between 0 and 1... this type of infinity has a beginning and an end... 0 is the beginning, 1 is the end- yet there is still an infinite number of numbers between them.

Maybe the universe is like that. Maybe not.

by the way, carlos72n, I found your post refreshing. You are one of the few religious people that do not name their god or declare that it is either gender, and you are very open minded. Kudos to you!

as to the God-creation thing, sorry I have no answers for you there, I do not believe in God. But good luck finding your spiritual, er, answers, or whatever

[Guest]

Infinity: the assumed limit of a sequence, series ect. That increases without bound.

I believe God exist outside of time. God is a self perpetuating energy unlike our universe where energy is lost. Our universe once ordered decays and becomes disorder. I don’t believe God is bound by laws of thermal dynamics. As for infinity, there is nothing we can compare it to. To me it’s a hard concept to put my head around.

When it comes to your faith, I believe, if A, B, C, D… Have been found to be true, then Z is also true.

[Guest]

by the way, carlos72n, I found your post refreshing. You are one of the few religious people that do not name their god or declare that it is either gender, and you are very open minded. Kudos to you!

the way I figure it, why would God need a limiting gender specific role?

I mean, God is supposed to be everywhere and do everything, how can s/he or it be just a male? what purpose does having a gender specific role do for God?

God doesnt have a gender...if it cant have sex....doesnt need to have sex, then God doesnt have a gender. it's plain stupid in my mind for people to actually fight about it or put down women because they think God is male.

I mean, God is a spiritual entity with no body, what the heck would "he" need a p-enis for?

oh well, enough ranting for one day.

Edited January 31, 2008 by carlosn27

[Guest]

I mean, God is a spiritual entity with no body, what the heck would "he" need a p-enis for?

Edited January 31, 2008 by BoscoRanger

[unreality]

I believe God exist outside of time. God is a self perpetuating energy unlike our universe where energy is lost.

Care to elaborate? Energy is not lost in our universe. There is a balance of it. I'm not a phsyicist but I'm sure Martini can hook you up with some links explaining that energy just transfers around and isnt lost. Its simple science

[Guest]

Just to clarify

I don't think your correct. I am referring to the first and second law of Thermodynamics. A full explanation would be long and off topic.

Thanks for the offer of websites but I find most sites are unreliable for research.

[Guest]

Just to clarify

I don't think your correct. I am referring to the first and second law of Thermodynamics.

What do you think he's incorrect about? What about the first and second law of Thermodynamics?

[bonanova]

My question is this: Since infinity has no beginning, and no end, and since God is eternal with no beginning, and no end, then when did he make, or even think about making the earth. I have faith, and believe in God, so is the answer simply that we are unable to comprehend it?

I have posted some thoughts on this in Others > Interested in Proof of Macroevolution. Post #7

Scroll down to the 2nd half of that post.

[Guest]

Unreality is correct about energy not being lost. Energy cant be lost. It can only be transferred from one form into another. Often however it is viewed as being "lost" when it is transferred into heat or sound energy as they are normally viewed as "waste".

Just clearing things up. Although i dont think it has any particular relevance.

[Guest]

And also although i am not familiar with the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, i believe that they are talking about a certain "system" or area, as opposed to the entire universe, so energy that is lost from the "system" is simply escaping into a different part of the universe.

[Guest]

" The entropy of the universe increases in all natural processes."this is an alternate way of stating the seconed law of thermodynamics. Order to disorder.

[Guest]

My question is this: Since infinity has no beginning, and no end, and since God is eternal with no beginning, and no end, then when did he make, or even think about making the earth. I have faith, and believe in God, so is the answer simply that we are unable to comprehend it?

Well this is an easy one! He made the earth (according to the bible) somewhere around 6 thousand years ago! God is eternal - However this earth is not. (Thank God!) So if the question is 'when did He think about making the earth?', Wow, the bible cleary says that his ways are higher than our ways. and that no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.

So we cannot begin to understand the creation of heaven or earth. To explain creation and theorys of creation is nonsense! It is clearly written the NO MIND CAN CONCEIVE!

[unreality]

IFyou believe in god then I would agree with Emapher. Obviously god doesnt want to be dethroned or analyzed by someone who can think better than he can

which, by the way, i DONT believe in god

[Guest]

I am unsure of the existence of God althought some things to point towards it. Other people may know the answer to this but i do not and am open to correction and criticism. But why did the big bang happen and at the time it did??? Surely there must have been something to start it....? Or was something building up to it reacting more and more till explosion, but then who or what provided the start of the reaction???

[unreality]

yeah that's why I'm skeptical of the big bang... I think the universe has been around forever, or something, I dont really know. There are a lot of specialized scientists who make their lives studying that kinda stuff so they probably know about it and why it happened and then and so on, though to be honest I dont really care

[Guest]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up relativity. It's pretty clear that time is a relative quality of the physical universe. We know for certain that time slows down at higher speeds, approaching standstill at the speed of light. If the universe was in fact created, then it's not hard to grasp that said creator would be responsible for introducing the concept of time and weaving this into the fabric of the 'verse. Even if it was not created, there would be no reason to suppose that there was time prior to the Big Bang. We might have a hard time getting our heads around that due to our limited experience, but if you think about it, time is only relevant if things are happening, since it provides a way to measure a sort of "distance" between events. If nothing happens, what is time measuring?

Since the OP asked the question "when did he make, or even think about making the earth?" ... well, the first part isn't too hard. If we make a couple reasonable assumptions about the consistency of radioactive decay, then radiometric dating places the earth around 4.5 billion years old. However, I wouldn't presume to guess when the idea first popped into God's head.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Duh Puck

[unreality]

If he really is as effing amazing as everyone says, He would have had the idea forever, right? I think the OP is more of asking... "why? why did he wait?" not "when?" but I dont really know. I dont believe in God so I dont need to fret over some of the paradoxes like this that pop up ;D

[Guest]

If he really is as effing amazing as everyone says, He would have had the idea forever, right? I think the OP is more of asking... "why? why did he wait?"

But there's no waiting if there's no time. Terms like "forever" don't apply, since the word is intrinsically connected with time.

For example, if you could travel at the speed of light (somehow avoiding an infinite increase in mass), you would not age. This does not mean that you're sitting there, thinking about stuff you wanna do, tapping your fingers, and occasionally noticing that the clock isn't moving. From your standpoint, everything would just stop (including, I would imagine, your thoughts). My point was that, even though we can't comprehend the absence of time, we can mathematically show that such a state exists, and that it's a property of the universe. Therefore, if there is a creator, he would have created time, and would not be subject to the limitations of time as we understand it. Incidentally, since most religions accept the concept of prophecy, which generally involves looking into the future, they inherently accept the idea that a divine creator is not limited by time as we are. If true, that would certainly make him amazing, as you said.

[Guest]

What if a being had no physical properties but still had a conciseness. It would not move as we know but would operate at the speed of thought, light speed or slightly slower. That being would be traveling ,per say, so fast that if it were to look at the physical earth it would be able to see all things at all times. Earths time would be a blinking of the eye..

[Guest]

What if a being had no physical properties but still had a conciseness. It would not move as we know but would operate at the speed of thought, light speed or slightly slower. That being would be traveling ,per say, so fast that if it were to look at the physical earth it would be able to see all things at all times. Earths time would be a blinking of the eye..

I can't speak for others, but I'm pretty sure my "speed of thought" is a good deal short of light speed.

Your point is an interesting one. If time slows down as one speeds up, then wouldn't the subject of one's observation appear to speed up? This seems reasonable, but it really depends on the direction of travel and acceleration, since these alter one's frame of reference. For example, the earth is traveling around the sun, the solar system is traveling within the galaxy, and so on. When you talk about traveling at light speed, this speed depends on the point from which you're doing the observation. So, if you were 'operating at light speed', as you suggest, the speed of things happening on Earth, from your viewpoint, would change based on the direction of your travel. If you were traveling away from the earth, things would actually appear to slow down due to the Doppler effect (the same means by which we are able to tell the direction in which stars are moving - spectrum shift), and vice versa.

There's an interesting discussion of this on ... yes, of course, wikipedia.

[Guest]

And on that topic, here's an interesting article I just found. I like Einstein's quote:

"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."