Question

[Guest]

This is neither a riddle nor a joke, but I simply wanted to know if others shared my opinion, or, if not, what their opinion was.

What is your definition of an arguement, or a dispute?

[Guest]

An argument can be one of several different things, depending on the context. If relation to this forum, I generally consider an argument a person's justification for their answer to a puzzle. However, an argument can also be a heated and often emotional discussion about a topic, as who should do the dishes after diner. Since a I also a programmer by profession, an argument can also be a parameter value passed to a program, procedure of function.

I generally consider a dispute to be similar to the second definition, but generally not as intense.

[Guest]

I believe that an arguement is an impolite disagreement between two or more people. A polite disagreement would the situation where two people disagree, but they accept the other's different point of view, and go on with whatever they were doing. In an impolite disagreement, or an "arguement", two people disagree, but keep sparring with words, to either prove themselves right or the other wrong.

I have asked my brother, but he said that this was more of the definition of "dispute". What do you think?

[bonanova]

What is your definition of an arguement, or a dispute?

I assume you are asking for a distinction between the two.

To my mind an argument is making a case for a way of thinking, or to establish a point of view.

As attorneys argue cases in court.

In that sense an argument is much the same as a debate.

Debaters need not personally hold the positions they argue.

Nor need an attorney.

S/he is hired to speak in favor of a point of view

In a dispute there is a clash of two opposing held views.

Here the protagonists actually hold the views, and they may take action

up to and including crimes of violence or as nations sometimes do, wage war.

An argument can be theoretical [except when it involves my wife ] ;

a dispute is never just theoretical.

[Guest]

I know this may sound silly, but is this correct: That a dispute is, when broken down, an arguement, but only more fiercly?

In my mind, an arguement is an impolite disagreement, and a dispute is a fight, whether verbally or physically. Is this correct?

[Guest]

I know this may sound silly, but is this correct: That a dispute is, when broken down, an arguement, but only more fiercly?

I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think friendly arguments are more apt to be called arguments than disputes. Not a hard and fast rule of grammar, just something that I have found to be more common in every day usage.

Then there is the definition of argument that Riddari and bonanova mentioned which is synonymous with a reason that something is to be seen one way or another.

For instance, I can say, "I think that lizards make lousy pets and here is my argument: Lizards are too..."

When used that way, argument simply means a reason or reasons for believing something and there doesn't even have to be a person that disagrees with me or one that I'm arguing with.

[unreality]

Arguement also has a meaning in programming, in C (or C++ which I am most familiar with) an arguement is a name for something passed to a function

[Guest]

I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think friendly arguments are more apt to be called arguments than disputes.

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were polite and continued on with whatever they were doing. If they started "arguing" than it would be an argument.

But yes, I believe that 'argument' and 'dispute' are synonyms, as you said.

For instance, I can say, "I think that lizards make lousy pets and here is my argument: Lizards are too..."

When used that way, argument simply means a reason or reasons for believing something and there doesn't even have to be a person that disagrees with me or one that I'm arguing with.

That is your opinion. If you were simply talking to yourself, it would not be an argument. An argument has to be with at least two people or more, else you are not arguing, and thus not an argument.

If you said: "I think that lizards make lousy pets because they are too boring", but someone else said "No, they are not, they are quite exciting" and both persons continued to argue, it would be an argument.

[bonanova]

Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.

It includes most of the views expressed.

Looking at these definitions, it might be justifiable to argue that a case could be made for concluding that a dispute is one type of argument, allowing for other types as well.

Quick definitions (argument)

noun: a variable in a logical or mathematical expression whose value determines the dependent variable;

if f(x)=y, x is the independent variable

noun: a summary of the subject or plot of a literary work or play or movie

(Example: "The editor added the argument to the poem")

noun: a fact or assertion offered as evidence that something is true

(Example: "It was a strong argument that his hypothesis was true")

noun: a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal

(Example: "The argument over foreign aid goes on and on")

noun: a contentious speech act; a dispute where there is strong disagreement

(Example: "They were involved in a violent argument")

[Guest]

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were polite and continued on with whatever they were doing. If they started "arguing" than it would be an argument.

That's not true. Go to the dictionary of your choice and look up 'argument' and you will see that there is nothing precluding an argument from being friendly.

From dictionary.com:

1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

Debating or discussing differing points of view can certainly be, and often are, friendly discussions.

That is your opinion. If you were simply talking to yourself, it would not be an argument. An argument has to be with at least two people or more, else you are not arguing, and thus not an argument.

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.

BTW, were both arguing our points, but I certainly consider it friendly.

[Guest]

Arguement also has a meaning in programming, in C (or C++ which I am most familiar with) an arguement is a name for something passed to a function

ha ha - true but irrelevent here

[Guest]

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.

Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.

It includes most of the views expressed.

I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition.

That's not true. Go to the dictionary of your choice and look up 'argument' and you will see that there is nothing precluding an argument from being friendly.

In my mind (This is my opinion), a polite disagreement would be where someone says, "I do not like lizards." And another says, "I do like lizards," but they just continue on with whatever they were doing. Is this not a disagreement? If it were an argument, they would pursue the subject more - But they did not, so does this not conclude that this was simply a disagreement, not an argument?

Debating or discussing differing points of view can certainly be, and often are, friendly discussions.

BTW, were both arguing our points, but I certainly consider it friendly.

No. They are arguments. It does not matter wether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument. A discussion would be where we are talking about what comic is our favorite, or what one does for a living. That would be a discussion, we are sharing what we think, but that is all. Here, we are sharing our definitions of a word, but we are also either trying to prove ourselves right or prove another person wrong. In my mind, this is the difference between a discussion and an argument. What does anyone else think?

[Guest]

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.

Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.

It includes most of the views expressed.

I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition.

And that's exactly what bonanova and I did. If you look at our first responses to your request for opinions, we wrote the following:

To my mind an argument is making a case for...

I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think...

It's not until you disagreed with our opinions that we went on to prove we are correct. If you were looking for opinions on what we thought, and opinions obviously can't be wrong as facts can be, then I'm confused as to why you went on to explain how we are wrong.

In my mind (This is my opinion), a polite disagreement would be where someone says, "I do not like lizards." And another says, "I do like lizards," but they just continue on with whatever they were doing. Is this not a disagreement? If it were an argument, they would pursue the subject more - But they did not, so does this not conclude that this was simply a disagreement, not an argument?

I agree. They are not arguing and no one in this thread defined that type of interaction as an argument

Debating or discussing differing points of view can certainly be, and often are, friendly discussions.

BTW, were both arguing our points, but I certainly consider it friendly.

No. They are arguments. It does not matter wether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You said:

I believe that an arguement is an impolite disagreement

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument

A discussion would be where we are talking about what comic is our favorite, or what one does for a living. That would be a discussion, we are sharing what we think, but that is all.

If you want to make up your own rules of English and demand that this is so because that's your opinion, that's fine. Now you can demand that an apple is a watermelon all you want and claim that that's your opinion because you have your own word definitions and that's all there is to it, but that won't get you very far in the real world. It's not "we are sharing what we think, but that is all" as I have already shown you with the second entry for argument according to dictionary.com:

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

Here is the definition given for discussion. Notice it specifically mentions argument:

an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

Here, we are sharing our definitions of a word, but we are also either trying to prove ourselves right or prove another person wrong. In my mind, this is the difference between a discussion and an argument. What does anyone else think?

A face to face argument is necessarily a discussion but a discussion is not necessarily an argument.

[Guest]

sajow4 wrote:

Martini wrote:

It is not my opinion; I can back up my contention that that use of the word 'argument' does not necessitate two or more people with dictionary definitions and I can state it is a fact.

Further entries from dictionary.com:

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.

bonanova wrote:

Here's how OneLook [onelook.com] summarizes argument.

It includes most of the views expressed.

I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I am asking for YOUR opinion, what is your defintion, not going by the dictionary or any other site of information. I simply want to know what you think - not the dictionary or onelook.com, else I would have gone there to find my definition.

And that's exactly what bonanova and I did. If you look at our first responses to your request for opinions, we wrote the following:

I know. You stated your opinions, and that was all that I wanted. I thank you for participating on this subject, but that is all I really want to know, your opinions.

sajow4 wrote:

No. They are arguments. It does not matter whether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You said:

Quote:

I believe that an argument is an impolite disagreement

Quote:

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument

I said:

It does not matter whether it is polite or not (as this argument here on this topic is), it is still an argument.

What I meant was, this is an argument. Whether we use fancy language from the 1800s, being "polite", or if we use dirty language that I am grateful we do not use, being "impolite", does not matter. It is still an argument, whether polite or not.

If it were a polite disagreement than it would not be considered an argument. If it were a polite argument, it would still be an argument.

If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were polite and continued on with whatever they were doing. If they started "arguing" than it would be an argument.

You are correct, I did contradict myself. I apologize for that, and for any other mistakes I may have made.

I may not appear for a while, as I am getting rather busy, and I bid you all farewell.

[Guest]

I know. You stated your opinions, and that was all that I wanted. I thank you for participating on this subject, but that is all I really want to know, your opinions.

I explained to you how you brought the conversation beyond that, which is why bonanova and I got to the point of providing dictionary definitions. After I stated:

"I think 'argument' and 'dispute' are pretty much synonymous, however, I think..."

You went on to correct me (as if my opinion were wrong):

"If they are "friendly" than, as I have said before, it would not be considered an argument, if they simply were..."

It is not until that point, that I got to the point of proving to you that your criticism of my definition as being incorrect was incorrect on your part. If you ask people for opinions and then claim they are wrong, it's really not fair to complain that you were only asking for opinions after they prove they are right.

What I meant was, this is an argument. Whether we use...

I understand what you meant. My only point was that it contradicted your earlier statements.

I may not appear for a while, as I am getting rather busy, and I bid you all farewell.

I hope you reconsider. I'm getting the feeling the arguing that goes on here about the correct answer to riddles or off topic discussions is getting to you. Relax. Don't take it personally and try to embrace being shown that something you thought was correct isn't. I thoroughly appreciate being shown I'm wrong as I just learned something new.