TMM VIII: Tom and Jerry Mafia

[MissKitten]

Funny little story: We learned the difference between "avenge" and "revenge" in LA today. Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, I know, but whatever.

Yeah, the time frame kinda sucked for a lot of us, but that's okay, since WE WON!!! Hah! Take that, baddies! [i'm young and immature. Don't judge me.]

Ah well. That's a bright spot for him. Although this is probably the longest TMM I've ever played in. EVER. Most of them usually end around 15 pages or so. I think this one went so long because Sakura couldn't defend herself properly, and so started accusing everyone else in order to get the spotlight off of her. But whatever. I say next game, we make her a goodie, if only so I don't come back to 20+ pages of crap after about 15 hours.

[Guest]

@Plasmid, I actually just got more detailed information after the NP was up. It still was helpful though.

@tole - must be because I am so trustworthy...

I have to say that the coincidence of Tole/Jerry being the main target of the bad guys and Tom's WinCon was keeping Tole/Jerry alive really wound up working against the baddies. I think it forced me to go h2h with Sak-C, which really drew everyone's attention to her. If she had been targeting someone beside Tole I might have laid low or tried to stir the pot and she would not have stood out as much resulting in the RID kills. Or maybe it would have happened anyway, who knows.

Also @plasmid - you nailed it at some point on N2 when you said your top suspects were Sak, Tra, and myself - don't know if it was a guess or not, but nice work.

[Guest]

@Miki - dig the new avatar

['Cat'astrophe]

Yay! And I'll post my hints too..

Although I'm not as good as Miki at hinting so elegantly(seriously I'd really like to be like Miki when it comes to hinting and I guess finally.. mafia).

Hinting that I had copied Miki

And here..

yeah i know that but i cant be 2 ppl, can I? U see, i'm jus trying to make people put 2 and 2 together....

Hinting that I had Role copy..

Oh and Plas also hinted for me..atleast I think he did..

MiKi, I am quite confident that cat is just as good as you are, so to speak,

Also..I thought our wincon was eliminate Tom and the baddies

And Miki..you dont look like a kitty anymore!!

[Hidden G]

YES we won

[Guest]

I must say, I'm disappointed. I see a lot of people not only insulting how I play, but insulting me personally. Not cool.

I can defend myself just fine. There was really no strong movement against me, and tole's argument had a lot of problems. In fact, she's the one who got Plasmid killed. I'd like to know, however, who Cuckoo targeted for the save on that first night. This game was alright, but there were some problems with rules and roles not being properly defined. We might have actually won if not for Plasmid not being blockable. I was planning to kill MissKitten, because I knew she was either Tom or Spike.

Since tole revealed that she had redirected me to Plasmid, I knew that my spy results were not for my actual target-smoth. We had things planned out very well, even though I only had one ally who was mostly inactive. What killed us was Quacker not being blockable, which I think was a bad idea.

[Hidden G]

i was Cuckoo , and i don't think u should ask who i did save cz always first night u save self cz u can't trust no one !!

btw goodies check this

and please reply

[Guest]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you trying to say you attempted to save yourself? But you also said you were redirected? I'm trying to figure out what the heck happened that first Night.

[Hidden G]

yes "i PMed krist saying :save me (here is Hidden G ) but he replied saying my save was redirected.

[Guest]

It seems like Tom was REALLY overpowered. Did he just have one redirect, or could he redirect each turn? I mean, knowing all the roles and getting more information, he really was too powerful.

It looks like Tom used his redirect to make Hidden save tole. But if Tom's role PM actually says he dies in Jerry's place if Jerry is TARGETED for the Night Kill, then shouldn't Tom have died that first Night? It's really confusing.

So, what about mboon, then? Didn't he also claim he was redirected?

[Hidden G]

Jerry didn't die N1 so Tom won't die!

[tolecnal]

Interesting so did smoth/Tom redirect your save to the baddie NK target N1? And sakura did you taget me for NK N1? I wouldn't be surprised at all. Maybe you can kill me to your satisfaction in the next game.

In fact, she's the one who got Plasmid killed...We might have actually won if not for Plasmid not being blockable. I was planning to kill MissKitten, because I knew she was either Tom or Spike.

So I got Plasmid killed? It had nothing to do with you targeting him? And also interesting I thought plasmid would have gotten himself killed because he was guiding the game so well and he was a threat to whatever side he wasn't on - I didn't realize I'd had anything to do with it. I guess, I'm so so so sorry Plasmid <insert crying smiley here>

Also you probably still wouldn't have won because Cat so skillfully copied Miki's role and they both RIDed you, so even if you'd gotten Miki, Cat still would have taken you out. meh.

[Molly Mae]

I feel kinda bad for Molly tho. Coming in as a sub and having to read >300 posts, trying to make up a credible cover for a baddie that's reasonably consistent with it, and then getting booted back out in the next couple of posts and lynched anyway. At least s-chan was already RIDed and he didn't have to deal with her in BTSC.

Nah. A little bit of logic would have given me a sound defense as your role (with no counterclaim) since Tole admitted to redirecting baddie spy to you and spy result came back as Qua.

I was already caught up with the game (with the exception of the baddie BTSC) when I jumped in, so no real rush. =/

[Hidden G]

Tol

Edit: yes i saw u MM watching the game

Edited October 6, 2011 by Hidden G

[tolecnal]

Oh I see now how I got plasmid killed, thanks Molly Mae.

[Guest]

I'm just saying that that's a reason to be careful with how you word things when it comes to rules and roles.

I did target tole with the Night Kill, because I figured she was the most likely person to start a lynch against me. Which did kind of turn out to be the case. And yes, it's like I said in my other post-tole said she had redirected me to Plasmid, so I killed him that Night instead of Tole. If the block against him had prevented him from using his role like one would have assumed, then MissKitten would have been killed instead. As for Cat, it is still possible we would have ended up blocking her.

[Guest]

Sak-C, this is where asking questions, reading the guides, etc. comes in handy. Blocks usually work on night abilities, not day ones. I don't think one would have assumed...I think one would have,in this order, 1. asked the host 2. assumed that a day action is not blocked.

As you have pointed out, different hosts have different styles, interpretations. It is good practice to ask questions. I know I do, even with a host that I've played with several times before.

[tolecnal]

I wouldn't have started a lynch against you if I hadn't seen the results of my redirect as they were and plasmid actually started the lynch against you. I don't let past games flavor my actions in new games as roles are randomized.

[Guest]

Each game is different, though. I did ask the host after realizing my spy had been redirected to Plasmid, and as a result, I was forced to take alternative action on behalf of myself and Tralala.

Asisde from the problems I already pointed out, I think this game might have been a bit too small. We only had two bad guys, one of whom wasn't really active.

[Hidden G]

inactivity is your problem not the host's and i think with what tom had the game was pretty much balanced

[Guest]

I never said inactivity was the host's problem, but it's certainly not my problem.O_o How can you say Tom was balanced, though? He had way too much in terms of power and information.

[Guest]

A few asked about Tom's actions -

N1 - redirected Hidden G to myself - the NK was on Tole, which bounced to me because of my ability, I was then saved by Hidden G/Cuckoo.

D1 - I lost the VM for having acted the night before

N2 - redirected the NK to plasmid (turns out that was the intended target anyway?) as I was worried they might target Tole again, plus plasmid had a lot of stuff already figured out. Also I was thinking the RID kill would have been for meathead and if both baddies were going to still be alive I wanted to make sure plasmid couldn't day spy me on D2.

I do agree with what someone said (can't remember who) that Tom may have been too powerful. Maybe not though, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Cuckoo/HG had been NKd on the first night and then I would not have had the save to redirect after that.

The combination of the redirect and all knowing seemed pretty potent, especially for winning with the goodies. It would have been a challenge for a "solo" win by getting to Day 4 with neither the goodies or baddies already winning.

[Molly Mae]

I never said inactivity was the host's problem, but it's certainly not my problem.O_o How can you say Tom was balanced, though? He had way too much in terms of power and information.

I actually agree with this, but based more on Tom's WinCon. All Tom had to do was out the baddies and himself and keep Tole protected.

The biggest thing working against him was that his wincon was secret. If Tom winning ended the game (and goodies lose), I think it would have been a good balance. Tom has to keep the baddies alive long enough for the game to reach D4 while keeping Jerry alive. Of course, some well placed saves made that easier to do.

[Hidden G]

btw my N2 save was on Tole

[Guest]

I actually agree with this, but based more on Tom's WinCon. All Tom had to do was out the baddies and himself and keep Tole protected.

The biggest thing working against him was that his wincon was secret. If Tom winning ended the game (and goodies lose), I think it would have been a good balance. Tom has to keep the baddies alive long enough for the game to reach D4 while keeping Jerry alive. Of course, some well placed saves made that easier to do.

Agreed. In theory I could have just outed the baddies on N1 and let everyone speculate as to what my win con was. I did not think that would be in spirit though and figured I would at least see how it played out and try to get to D4. As it worked out though the goodies figured out who Butch was pretty quickly and that pretty much meant a shared victory at that point. If MM could have stayed alive after replacing Tra that could have changed things of course.