superprismatic Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 36 circles are arranged in the form of an equilateral triangle, eight circles to a side. The letters of a message are written in the circles, starting from the top and proceeding from left to right. A triangular piece of cardboard with twelve holes cut out is placed over this and the exposed letters read out. The cardboard is given a 120 degree clockwise turn and another twelve letters read out. A final 120 degree clockwise turn allows the last twelve letters to be read out. The result is: HLRSO CGTBT AITEA OITUH YEYBT EWMNA HERLR D[/code]Read the message. SUPERPRISMATIC CLARIFICATION: The 36 circles are arranged like bowling pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 36 circles are arranged in the form of an equilateral triangle, eight circles to a side. The letters of a message are written in the circles, starting from the top and proceeding from left to right. A triangular piece of cardboard with twelve holes cut out is placed over this and the exposed letters read out. The cardboard is given a 120 degree clockwise turn and another twelve letters read out. A final 120 degree clockwise turn allows the last twelve letters to be read out. The result is: HLRSO CGTBT AITEA OITUH YEYBT EWMNA HERLR DRead the message. SUPERPRISMATIC CLARIFICATION: The 36 circles are arranged like bowling pins. Good puzzle. The subject needs a new alarm clock to stay on time. Of course it saved him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I got it! I usually don't even try cipher puzzles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I would be interested (after you believe that a sufficient number of replies have been entertained) to know the template for the hole pattern. I identified 18 patterns (and saw potential for many more) that when rotated twice would reveal all 36 holes. After trying one, which did not reveal the answer, I postponed further attempts. Kudos to those who have submitted their answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) I would be interested (after you believe that a sufficient number of replies have been entertained) to know the template for the hole pattern. I identified 18 patterns (and saw potential for many more) that when rotated twice would reveal all 36 holes. After trying one, which did not reveal the answer, I postponed further attempts. Kudos to those who have submitted their answers. I solved it another way. I determined the phrase and then figured out the hole pattern (though not needed at that point). Edited September 14, 2009 by ljb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 superprismatic Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I would be interested (after you believe that a sufficient number of replies have been entertained) to know the template for the hole pattern. I identified 18 patterns (and saw potential for many more) that when rotated twice would reveal all 36 holes. After trying one, which did not reveal the answer, I postponed further attempts. Kudos to those who have submitted their answers. If you are doing this problem "by hand", it's too difficult to look for possible hole patterns -- there are just far too many to consider. However, if you write a program to solve it, this is a good way to go. I don't know what the hole pattern is for this problem, but I'll post it in a week or so if nobody does it first. Perhaps ljb will post it in a spoiler for you. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) I would be interested (after you believe that a sufficient number of replies have been entertained) to know the template for the hole pattern. I identified 18 patterns (and saw potential for many more) that when rotated twice would reveal all 36 holes. After trying one, which did not reveal the answer, I postponed further attempts. Kudos to those who have submitted their answers. well, since super was so persistent, I'll post the pattern... see the pic. I've given the pattern for each 'ring' of the triangle, though they may not be in the right configuration w.r.t. each other (so you'll have to figure out how they fit together). the black circles are the holes. Edited September 14, 2009 by ljb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I solved it another way. I determined the phrase and then figured out the hole pattern (though not needed at that point). Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction. It's nice to have a little bird give a helpful hint to a wayword worm now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 ljb is right with his pattern of holes (although as he says, they are not in the right position with relation to each other) but I could not make the puzzle work based on what I understood the rules to be. See my explanation in the spoiler: I could not create a cipher that would work with the circles in a 'bowling pin' pattern. I needed to stack them in a pyramid formation, i.e. point at the top. I didn't find this orientation, however, until I deciphered the message based on the letters alone and worked backward. When I put the letters out in groups of 12 like this: HLRSOCGTBTAI TEAOITUHYEYB TEWMNAHERLRD some words immediately jumped out at me: 'the' 'worm' 'caught' 'early bird' HlRsoCGYbtAI TEaOitUHyEYB teWMnAheRLRD From these words it was a simple matter of going from left to right removing letters in each group to form words until the message "The late bird is not caught by the early bird' appeared. If I were then to reconstruct the triangle it would appear like this. T 2 If you replace the '1s' X H E 1 2 with 'Os' to recreate O X L A T 1 2 3 the key it looks like: O X X E W O R Or if we use group numbers: 3 3 2 1 (Think of the 'Xs' as X X X O M I S N O 3 2 1 3 1 solid and the 'Os' X X O X O T C A U G H 2 1 3 2 1 2 as holes in the X O X X O X T B Y T H E E 1 1 2 1 3 3 2 triangle) O O X O X X X A R L Y B I R D 1 3 3 2 2 1 3 3 O X X X X O X X You will find if you rotate this around the triangle it will indeed output the letters in the same sequence we were given them (HLRSO CGTBT AITEA OITUH YEYBT EWMNA HERLR D) when read from left to right/top to bottom. I could not make this work with an inverted triangle, and I still don't understand how one would arrive at this pattern before knowing the answer. Can anyone help me with these aspects of the puzzle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Darn! I'm new to this site and don't understand the formatting just yet. My last post looks like jibberish, maybe this one will work better... anyone know why I 'don't have permission' to delete or edit my old post? I could not create a cipher that would work with the circles in a 'bowling pin' pattern. I needed to stack them in a pyramid formation, i.e. point at the top. I didn't find this orientation, however, until I deciphered the message based on the letters alone and worked backward. When I put the letters out in groups of 12 like this: HLRSOCGTBTAI TEAOITUHYEYB TEWMNAHERLRD some words immediately jumped out at me: 'the' 'worm' 'caught' 'early bird' HlRsoCGYbtAI TEaOitUHyEYB teWMnAheRLRD From these words it was a simple matter of going from left to right removing letters in each group to form words until the message "The late bird is not caught by the early bird' appeared. If I were then to reconstruct the triangle it would appear like this. T H E L A T E W O R M I S N O T C A U G H T B Y T H E E A R L Y B I R D and when arranged by group numbers it looks like 2 1 2 1 2 3 3 3 2 1 3 2 1 3 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 3 3 2 1 3 3 2 2 1 3 3 And then taking the '1s' and turning them into holes in a triangular piece or paper gives up a cipher which looks like this: X O X O X X X X X O X X O X O X O X X O X O O X O X X X O X X X X O X X (Here the 'Xs' are solid space and the 'Os' are holes) You will find if you rotate this around the triangle it will indeed output the letters in the same sequence we were given them (HLRSO CGTBT AITEA OITUH YEYBT EWMNA HERLR D) when read from left to right/top to bottom. I could not make this work with an inverted triangle, and I still don't understand how one would arrive at this pattern before knowing the answer. Can anyone help me with these aspects of the puzzle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 superprismatic Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Darn! I'm new to this site and don't understand the formatting just yet. My last post looks like jibberish, maybe this one will work better... anyone know why I 'don't have permission' to delete or edit my old post? I could not create a cipher that would work with the circles in a 'bowling pin' pattern. I needed to stack them in a pyramid formation, i.e. point at the top. I didn't find this orientation, however, until I deciphered the message based on the letters alone and worked backward. When I put the letters out in groups of 12 like this: HLRSOCGTBTAI TEAOITUHYEYB TEWMNAHERLRD some words immediately jumped out at me: 'the' 'worm' 'caught' 'early bird' HlRsoCGYbtAI TEaOitUHyEYB teWMnAheRLRD From these words it was a simple matter of going from left to right removing letters in each group to form words until the message "The late bird is not caught by the early bird' appeared. If I were then to reconstruct the triangle it would appear like this. T H E L A T E W O R M I S N O T C A U G H T B Y T H E E A R L Y B I R D and when arranged by group numbers it looks like 2 1 2 1 2 3 3 3 2 1 3 2 1 3 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 3 3 2 1 3 3 2 2 1 3 3 And then taking the '1s' and turning them into holes in a triangular piece or paper gives up a cipher which looks like this: X O X O X X X X X O X X O X O X O X X O X O O X O X X X O X X X X O X X (Here the 'Xs' are solid space and the 'Os' are holes) You will find if you rotate this around the triangle it will indeed output the letters in the same sequence we were given them (HLRSO CGTBT AITEA OITUH YEYBT EWMNA HERLR D) when read from left to right/top to bottom. I could not make this work with an inverted triangle, and I still don't understand how one would arrive at this pattern before knowing the answer. Can anyone help me with these aspects of the puzzle? You did the problem correctly and as it was designed to be done. It's unfortunate that you thought I meant "point on the bottom" when I said "bowling pin pattern". I'm sorry for this confusion. The only reason I said "bowling pin pattern" was to say that the triangle was filled with circles and not having circles just around the edges. As to how to arrive at the hole pattern first, I don't know how to do that either. Of course one could write a program to enumerate all 12-hole triangles which take out all 36 letters using the 3 orientations, then try each one and look for words. But I don't think that is a viable approach without writing a program. You have a nice explanation of a good way to solve this problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 You did the problem correctly and as it was designed to be done. It's unfortunate that you thought I meant "point on the bottom" when I said "bowling pin pattern". I'm sorry for this confusion. The only reason I said "bowling pin pattern" was to say that the triangle was filled with circles and not having circles just around the edges. As to how to arrive at the hole pattern first, I don't know how to do that either. Of course one could write a program to enumerate all 12-hole triangles which take out all 36 letters using the 3 orientations, then try each one and look for words. But I don't think that is a viable approach without writing a program. You have a nice explanation of a good way to solve this problem! That makes me feel good. I thought it was going to be one of those 'duh' moments where I felt really dumb about my approach. This was a good puzzle though, it forced me to look at it from many different angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
superprismatic
36 circles are arranged in the form
of an equilateral triangle, eight
circles to a side. The letters of
a message are written in the
circles, starting from the top and
proceeding from left to right. A
triangular piece of cardboard with
twelve holes cut out is placed over
this and the exposed letters read
out. The cardboard is given a 120
degree clockwise turn and another
twelve letters read out. A final
120 degree clockwise turn allows
the last twelve letters to be read
out. The result is:
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